177 réponses à ce sujet

[hangmans tree]

...ugh. How to start without people reading my post as rant?

I have concerns. About the storyline. About our avatar's role in the game.

Let me explain. I stayed away from the BSN to be free of the marketing soiling fun reveals. But I saw the 30min gameplay lately - watched it to see the improvements done by engine switch. It got me a little hooked again. But when I digested what I saw and looked through few BSN threads and pr materials I came to not so funny conclusion.

Recycled idea.
So we have a war brewing. Pivotal mages-templars-chantry-fade events. Some characters, which are known to dabble in writing/changing history, reappear. Other minor conflicts and dragons.
Regions - each region has a tear in the veil, and a keep probably. I imagine we will have to run favours again to pacify the tear with combined forces while piece by piece discovering the reason behind the catastrophy.
Reaching conclusion "Galcatic Readiness" will add all achivements (decisions, decisions) and present you choices that fit in the window of your score. (I hope not). Sounds familiar?
Will we be set on an ark hunt to find the ancient scrolls with the knowledge how to shut the gate between the worlds? Or the "weapon" against the Big Bad Wolf?

Its not so blatant I would imagine. And dressed apropriately.

Will it come down to the good vs the bad? Of course BW will give us an option to fail in saving everybody - threading heavy over dreams, justified by rightous cause. But does that change anything? Are we up against the same old formulaic story driven gotta catch'em all?
Gawd, I hope not.

What do you think? Am I right or is this kind of thinking detrimental?

Being honest here - I'd be willing to take a shot, I like my rpgs fresh out of the oven, but I am so fu©king scared to buy DAI after DA2 and ME3. I remember how much pissed I was after playin both games... dont wanna go there.

[Darth Death]

BioWare has been recycling the "gathering of forces to beat the bad guy" idea for years now.

[Vortex13]

Darth Death wrote...

BioWare has been recycling the "gathering of forces to beat the bad guy" idea for years now.

Its a sound troupe though, I mean they wouldn't have been using that formula for so long if it didn't work.

I personally like the "Gather allies, put aside differences, defeat the evil threating everything." concept.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It is a traditional "Hero's Journey". If it aint broke don't fix it.

[David7204]

Reoccuring themes reoccur for a reason.

Because they're meaningful.

Modifié par David7204, 21 novembre 2013 - 02:20 .

[Cheylus]

Story never was, in my opinion, the big thing of BioWare - regarding the "main story", at least. They do a good or very good job at writing characters, dialogs and universes.
They tried to do something with the "main story" in DA2 and ME3 and it didn't work at all. I think they're right to go back to basics. I'm still curious about how they'll deal with the "guy behind the curtains".

[Fardreamer]

People who like RPGs generally play for the story. By now I have probably read thousands of fantasy stories. There's not a lot that's very fresh and new. But I still continue reading and enjoying the read because I like to each author's unique spin on basically the same setting. If you're looking for something "fresh" then you will probably be disappointed.

[David7204]

There is nothing new under the sun.

As TV Tropes notes, there has never been and never will be a story made from the element Or for "Originalium." All stories 'recycle.'

Yes, your line of thinking is detrimental.

Modifié par David7204, 21 novembre 2013 - 02:34 .

[Ieldra]

I usually find enjoyment by focusing on what's distinctive in a setting or story rather than on what is the same as in others. The DA setting has a few things to make it distinctive, and if those elements are used for the story in creative ways I'm going to like it.

I've read thousands of fantasy stories. There isn't much I haven't seen. I can avoid those stories which are nothing but cliché storms and still find enough to read where a combination of elements makes the worlds and the stories interesting. Games tend to be a little more mainstream than I like but I still find the occasional world or story I can enjoy.

Having said that, I would like to avoid "gather allies" this time (which, btw, DA2 didn't have either) but instead gain power through my own strategies and magical efforts. There is no information about how DAI will address this, though. We'll see.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 novembre 2013 - 02:43 .

[David7204]

'Thousands'?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Cheylus wrote...

Story never was, in my opinion, the big thing of BioWare - regarding the "main story", at least. They do a good or very good job at writing characters, dialogs and universes.
They tried to do something with the "main story" in DA2 and ME3 and it didn't work at all. I think they're right to go back to basics. I'm still curious about how they'll deal with the "guy behind the curtains".

Ditto, anyone who plays any game by BW will probably know that it's going to end up being a power fantasy, which in itself isn't so bad. The last game by BW I played where the main story was truly compelling was probaly KotOR.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

'Thousands'?

 
A lot more than the 5 or 6 that you've read?

[Ieldra]

David7204 wrote...
'Thousands'?

Yes. Literally. May be not stricly fantasy alone rather than fantasy and sf, since I don't categorize that clearly, but yes, thousands. I've had a few decades to do it, so it's not such a big thing.

[David7204]

'Power fantasy' is like a magic win all word, isn't it? Anything you don't like in fiction? Power Fantasy! Competent characters? Power fantasy! Attractive love interests? Power fantasy! Characters are good? It must be because it's a power fantasy! Characters are evil? it must be because it's a power fantasy! A story has a conflict that is resolved? Power fantasy! Interesting setting? Power fantasy!

Modifié par David7204, 21 novembre 2013 - 02:49 .

[Reznore57]

I wasn't too fond of the main plot at first...
I mean gathering allies and anything army related tends to bore me really fast.
But I like the idea of an Inquisition , if it means trying to solve mysteries...
I mean the warden 's goal was pretty straightforward :kill big evil dragon.

This time , at least for now , we don't know who is the villain , we're not even 100% sure there is a villain.
I really hope it won't be like ME3 and after two hours of game , you stumble upon the ubber weapon of doom, though.
I want to look for solutions and I want to use my brain .

[Wulfram]

I think it's fair to say that the broad strokes plot does seem like a pretty standard fantasy type thing. But that's just broad strokes. And you're kind of over-extrapolating some of details, I think.

[Ieldra]

What can I say? I like stories of personal ascension. Which is why I also like DA2's story. It had little to do with saving the world and everything with gaining a place and a reputation of power in your new home city (sometimes I really wonder why people didn't like it, the unsatisfying ending notwithstanding). It appears I'll have that "power fantasy" aspect in DAI as well, and I like it there as well. If I have to save the world as a side effect, so be it.

What I do not like is being railroaded into a specific character archetype, especially if it involves hitting me over the head with badassery and action-heroism like in ME3. I hope DAI will avoid that. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 novembre 2013 - 03:08 .

[Reaverwind]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What can I say? I like stories of personal ascension. Which is why I also like DA2's story. It had little to do with saving the world and everything with gaining a place and a reputation of power in your new home city (sometimes I really wonder why people didn't like it, the unsatisfying ending notwithstanding). 

Hawke was little more than an errand boy throughout the story, that's why. 

[David7204]

It's pretty clear that the Inquisitor will be The Hero.

That's not a character archetype?

[Reaverwind]

David7204 wrote...

It's pretty clear that the Inquisitor will be The Hero.

That's not a character archetype?

Who says? He could be the Anti Hero. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

'Power fantasy' is like a magic win all word, isn't it? Anything you don't like in fiction? Power Fantasy! Competent characters? Power fantasy! Attractive love interests? Power fantasy! Characters are good? It must be because it's a power fantasy! Characters are evil? it must be because it's a power fantasy! A story has a conflict that is resolved? Power fantasy! Interesting setting? Power fantasy!

I'm not saying it like it's a bad thing. In fact, I said I was fine with it and supported it. But don't think for a second that any BW game is not a power fantasy. For pretty much all the reasons, yes.

Strawmanning my words doesn't lessen my argument. Nor does presenting my argument in a ridiculous manner (because you don't like it) lessen my own argument.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

It's pretty clear that the Inquisitor will be The Hero.

That's not a character archetype?

Protagonist would be a better word.

[Tajerio]

As has been said, the issue isn't really whether the overarching trope is original. It's not ever going to be, and the Hero's Journey type is enormously popular. I see enough possibility for variation under that level for the story to be interesting--we don't really know who the villain is, there's the possibility that there won't be much of a world left to save by the time we save it (because it's tearing itself apart), and so on.

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

It's pretty clear that the Inquisitor will be The Hero.

That's not a character archetype?

That sounds dull. I'd rather be a dirty harry then clark kent type of guy.

[Usergnome]

Darth Death wrote...

BioWare has been recycling the "gathering of forces to beat the bad guy" idea for years now.

Not just Bioware. Everyone always uses the same old ideas in RPGs, its the unique twist each game has that makes the story good.

Think of old games: Fable: Save the world from the big bad villain.
Mass Effect 3: Save the Galaxy from world-ending invaders.
Dragon Age Origins: Save the world from World Ending Invaders.
Last of Us: Cure to zombie infection survives apocalypse.
I am Legend: Cure to zombie infection survives apocalypse.

All those follow a very typical story. Its the characters, events, and stuff make it unique. Dragon Age Origins and ME3 have the same "goal" but feel totally different story wise