177 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Perhaps you guys should make Cubical Age: Presentation, instead. It would be very innovative and non-cliche.

[Heimdall]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yay!

[Dave of Canada]

Dragon Age 2 was a really ambitious plot, too ambitious for the time allocated to it. It could've been much more and I had hopes that DA:I would've followed suit, though that's not possible any more much to my disappointment.

From what I'm hearing, I'll be cautiously pessimistic and wait for more.

[Fredward]

The theme might be cliche, doesn't mean the execution has to be.

[victorbarry]

i own like 5 books. i should read more ._.
anyway, there was something bout this on that survey back there about the importance of "epicness". i chose important but i wrote bout it later. and i'll write it again more or less, because i feel like.
i think epic is always good (like saving the world) but something less epic wouldnt be good too? for a change at least. but then i realize that a story of "epic proportions" (i dont even know what that word means anymore) has always been awesome. so i guess is fine.
sorry for grammatical errors, is not my language

[Fredward]

^ Just out of curiousity what is your first language?

[durasteel]

The ending of Mass Effect 3 really helped me to understand how much I appreciate adherence, in broad terms, to the established structure of a save-the-world narrative. I would have been delighted to have Shepard beat the bad guys, get the girl/guy, and save the galaxy. That would have been awesome. 

Instead, they got creative. The end of the game would up being the reolution of a story they hadn't been telling, and my first reaction as the credits rolled was "What the **** was that ****?"

So, yeah... I'm off to save to world again, and I'm pretty happy about it. If there's gonna be a big plot twist, bring it during the middle of the game and don't screw up the ending. Revan unmasked was brilliant. Star child was a steaming pile of excrement.

Modifié par durasteel, 21 novembre 2013 - 08:29 .

[BaronFonAphedron]

I really like DA2's plot, actually. Reminds me of Gothic, where u were wandering around the world, earning respect and money, having no idea what will the ending be like, until things suddenly get ugly. Ah, good old Gothic...

[David7204]

Br3ad wrote...

Perhaps you guys should make Cubical Age: Presentation, instead. It would be very innovative and non-cliche.

Power fantasy.

[TeamLexana]

Vortex13 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

BioWare has been recycling the "gathering of forces to beat the bad guy" idea for years now.

Its a sound troupe though, I mean they wouldn't have been using that formula for so long if it didn't work.

I personally like the "Gather allies, put aside differences, defeat the evil threating everything." concept.

I like it too. It's certainly better then DA2 where it felt like I just stumbled around and had strangers demanding I fix their problems "just cuz we said so" kind of logic.

[Black Jimmy]

 I can't say if you're right or not as my tastes aren't yours. After all, I really enjoy DA2 for the characters and humour. And thought ME3 was fun as hell despite the ending.

For me personally, I have no problem if it's following a forumla. Tropes Are Not Bad after all.

Besides, Bioware has always made each of there games stand apart with the quality of the writing.

On top of that, in Fantasy the main character becoming a Leader of Men is always a fun wishfulfillment trope, and so far it hasn't really happened in Dragon Age, maybe even a Bioware game period(I've not played that man, so feel free to point out my wrongness.). Not to the extent of commanding your own personal armies. The closest I can think of is Awakening, which only really dabbled in it. That, I think, is what I'm most looking forward too.

[Ieldra]

BaronFonAphedron wrote...
I really like DA2's plot, actually. Reminds me of Gothic, where u were wandering around the world, earning respect and money, having no idea what will the ending be like, until things suddenly get ugly. Ah, good old Gothic...

Ah, another fan, I see. Yeah, the first two Gothics were great. And.....back in 1999, featuring caves as seamless parts of the world, which DAI advertises as a great innovation. 

[hangmans tree]

Wow, pretty rapid developement in my absence.

I may not come across as clear as I would be in my native tongue, I apologize in advance.

I do not agree that all is recycled, all is reduced to what was written in the past. There are still ideas and aproaches to storytelling that can stray form the beaten path. Lem and Asimov comes to my mind when it comes to sci-fi.. O. S. Card, Stephenson... or Henlein. I still see so little of their "influence" in modern games and movies.

I used the term gathering allies and battleing great evil in more vague meaning. I ment story progression. I see it as: from A to B to C with the outcome - D. While what I would like to see something like this: from either A through B and maybe C, not strictly in that order, with the outcome - The Alphabet.

Another thing is that evy often the protagonist have some (limited) influence over the world around him while it is rare that thechanges in the world reflects no the hero.

My assumptions aside, what I really would like is a game worth playing, with some great story and characters behind it. And with motivation to be the Inquisitor.
I felt no Connection to Hawke, and sorry, if someone says he/she red thousands of books (sounds a bit patronising, I did too but I dont brag about it to put more weight in my arguments) and finds DA2 story a good one I find their jugement less belivable. DA2 was disjointed and disconnected. The endoing was as meaningless to the PC trying to play it as it could be. In the end it seemed as all the actions Hawke took could be scrapped, turned 180º and the ending would be almost the same.

It was a long day, I forgot about something important I wanted to discuss, its late so maybe tomorrow if I'll be able to remember

[durasteel]

TeamLexana wrote...

I like it too. It's certainly better then DA2 where it felt like I just stumbled around and had strangers demanding I fix their problems "just cuz we said so" kind of logic.

I think the problem with DA2's story can perhaps best be thought of in the differences between starting the end quest in act 1 as opposed to starting it in acts 2 or 3. In act 1, you're working towards the deep roads mission. That goal is established at the very opening sequence of act 1, referenced constantly, and ultimately fulfilled. With acts 2 and 3, though, the end of the act is not triggered by Hawke (other than reading a letter and going to visit someone.) There is no sense of urgency driving you through the act, and in subsequent plays-through I find myself hesitant to open the mail once I know the act is wrapping up, because at that point I've solved most people's problems and it might really be nice to just hang out at the estate (especially if I could tumble my love interest again) or pop 'round the Hanged Man for a pint.

[TeamLexana]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm still waiting for an RPG that draws inspiration from the events of the "A Song of Ice and Fire" saga or, as most recognize it, Game of Thrones. Yes, there is a "save the world" theme tucked away in the frozen expanse of the north, but the majority of the content focuses on the politics and power struggles of the great houses and nobles of Westeros.

I think it would be pretty damn cool to play as an ambassador and liaison for one of the nobles vying for power, sort of how Davos is a champion for Stannis's cause in the books.

That's kinda why I loved Origins so much. Great blend of Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones but it still felt like it was it's own world. Big bad trouble brewing with the Darkspawn and all the nobles can do is bicker over who gets to be King or Queen. Very satisfying to not only defeat the darkspawn but to sette the ruler debat like a badass. 

[DooomCookie]

The most important thing is that there is an ending. Some games now have massive story arcs that they just continuously extend to keep churning out games. Assassin's Creed and Resident Evil are by far the biggest culprits, but Mass Effect started to feel like this as well. DA:I should have a solid, satisfying ending and DA4 (if there is one) should tell a different story.

[David7204]

DooomCookie wrote...

The most important thing is that there is an ending. Some games now have massive story arcs that they just continuously extend to keep churning out games. Assassin's Creed and Resident Evil are by far the biggest culprits, but Mass Effect started to feel like this as well. DA:I should have a solid, satisfying ending and DA4 (if there is one) should tell a different story.

Mass Effect?

No. Quite the opposite. There was still a massive unsolved conflict at the end of 1 and 2. People would have been (justifiably) outraged if that arc was abandoned. It was never 'continuously extended' to 'keep churning out games.' Indeed, there's been plenty of people proclaiming that the series wasn't extended enough, that trying to solve the Reaper conflict in three games was doomed from the beginning.

Modifié par David7204, 21 novembre 2013 - 09:03 .

[Black Jimmy]

I'm kinda hoping we get a Wheel of Time vibe from this.

[BaronFonAphedron]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BaronFonAphedron wrote...
I really like DA2's plot, actually. Reminds me of Gothic, where u were wandering around the world, earning respect and money, having no idea what will the ending be like, until things suddenly get ugly. Ah, good old Gothic...

Ah, another fan, I see. Yeah, the first two Gothics were great. And.....back in 1999, featuring caves as seamless parts of the world, which DAI advertises as a great innovation. 

Well, in terms of Dragon Age franchise, it may be called an innovation, so it's K:)

[TeamLexana]

David7204 wrote...

DooomCookie wrote...

The most important thing is that there is an ending. Some games now have massive story arcs that they just continuously extend to keep churning out games. Assassin's Creed and Resident Evil are by far the biggest culprits, but Mass Effect started to feel like this as well. DA:I should have a solid, satisfying ending and DA4 (if there is one) should tell a different story.

Mass Effect?

No. Quite the opposite. There was still a massive unsolved conflict at the end of 1 and 2. People would have been (justifiably) outraged if that arc was abandoned. It was never 'continuously extended' to 'keep churning out games.' Indeed, there's been plenty of people proclaiming that the series wasn't extended enough, that trying to solve the Reaper conflict in three games was doomed from the beginning.

I don't know, I think it would have been fine if the original ending to ME3 didn't boil down to "pick a color". It was bad enough that Shepard didn't act like Shepard while talking to the godchild or that the entire reaper logic broke down to "yo dawg, we heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics, so we created giant synthetics to kill you, so you wouldn't be killed by synthetics." Pick a color was a step to far in the forgivability factor at that point.

[David7204]

My post had nothing to do with the quality of the endings...

[TeamLexana]

durasteel wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

I like it too. It's certainly better then DA2 where it felt like I just stumbled around and had strangers demanding I fix their problems "just cuz we said so" kind of logic.

I think the problem with DA2's story can perhaps best be thought of in the differences between starting the end quest in act 1 as opposed to starting it in acts 2 or 3. In act 1, you're working towards the deep roads mission. That goal is established at the very opening sequence of act 1, referenced constantly, and ultimately fulfilled. With acts 2 and 3, though, the end of the act is not triggered by Hawke (other than reading a letter and going to visit someone.) There is no sense of urgency driving you through the act, and in subsequent plays-through I find myself hesitant to open the mail once I know the act is wrapping up, because at that point I've solved most people's problems and it might really be nice to just hang out at the estate (especially if I could tumble my love interest again) or pop 'round the Hanged Man for a pint.

For sure. But even in Act 1 getting ready for the deep roads expedition, the only reason why Hawke is doing it is because Varric told her/him to. Yes, it benefits Hawke, but it stll wasn't like it was Hawke's idea.

[durasteel]

TeamLexana wrote...
I don't know, I think it would have been fine if the original ending to ME3 didn't boil down to "pick a color". It was bad enough that Shepard didn't act like Shepard while talking to the godchild or that the entire reaper logic broke down to "yo dawg, we heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics, so we created giant synthetics to kill you, so you wouldn't be killed by synthetics." Pick a color was a step to far in the forgivability factor at that point.

It didn't help that the green ending, which you had to "earn" access to with a high enough readiness score, has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in a AAA game title. It made no sense, and no amount of hand-waving and glowing space magic could make it palatable. It added insult to injury.

[durasteel]

TeamLexana wrote...

For sure. But even in Act 1 getting ready for the deep roads expedition, the only reason why Hawke is doing it is because Varric told her/him to. Yes, it benefits Hawke, but it stll wasn't like it was Hawke's idea.

I didn't mind that. Hawke had some objectives, Varric suggested a path to reach them, and Hawke agreed and then followed the path on his or her own initiative. In acts 2 and 3, however, any problem directly related to Hawke was a side quest, other than Leandra's abduction (which was really a 'mandatory' side quest.) The main plot, and the big finale, were Hawke getting cought up in someone else's mess/incompetence/lunacy and having to clean it up and fix it.

[TeamLexana]

David7204 wrote...

My post had nothing to do with the quality of the endings...

I kinda took it that way when you said trying to solve the reaper conflict in just three games was doomed from the beginning. I thought it would have been fine, if the ending wasn't so horrible. For me at least, I guess. Sour'd the whole single player for me.

I had trouble accessing the mp stuff for a bit and I deleted all of my ME3 stuff - including my single player save files. I found it really hard to try and play the sp from scratch again to try and access the the Citadel dlc stuff. I'm just walking around the Citadel itself going "what's the point? everyone here dies. everyone everywhere dies cuz I REFUSE to pick a color. NO. Just no." And take the game right back out.