41 réponses à ce sujet

[camcon2100]

I was thinking about the consequences in mass effect 2. I know you can save everyone and stuff but what i want to do for ME3 is go off my first playthrough at least the first time through so it feels like my mistakes and choices really carried over. I just think the story will be alot better that way.
What do you guys think

[Haasth]

It is human to make mistakes.

Modifié par Haasth, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:15 .

[RyuKazuha]

I may take over all my ME2-Careers. As for the first playthrough: If Shep dies, i'll import a version where she doesn't too. I just want her to reunite with Liara, even if i've to alter some of the original decisions.

[Aradace]

camcon2100 wrote...

I was thinking about the consequences in mass effect 2. I know you can save everyone and stuff but what i want to do for ME3 is go off my first playthrough at least the first time through so it feels like my mistakes and choices really carried over. I just think the story will be alot better that way.
What do you guys think

I was actually thinking the same thing...I actually plan on one of my playthroughs to actually kill off my Shepard just to see how that impacts the universe/story in the 3rd game.

[Arrtis]

simple replay till you get it just right.

[camcon2100]

Aradace wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

I was thinking about the consequences in mass effect 2. I know you can save everyone and stuff but what i want to do for ME3 is go off my first playthrough at least the first time through so it feels like my mistakes and choices really carried over. I just think the story will be alot better that way.
What do you guys think

I was actually thinking the same thing...I actually plan on one of my playthroughs to actually kill off my Shepard just to see how that impacts the universe/story in the 3rd game.

If your Shep dies you play as the default Sheppard and thats it.
Im talking about having a few charachters i liked die because of my actions

[Atti Ito]

Aradace wrote...

I was actually thinking the same thing...I actually plan on one of my playthroughs to actually kill off my Shepard just to see how that impacts the universe/story in the 3rd game.

From what I've gathered, it doesn't. You simply start ME3 as if it's your first ME experience with no character to import.

[MrRandomletters]

Everyone knows the best version of ME3 is gonna be the one where Shepard is the only one who survives the suicide mission and you lost two teammates on virmire, giving you maximum possible deaths.

[Aradace]

Atti Ito wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I was actually thinking the same thing...I actually plan on one of my playthroughs to actually kill off my Shepard just to see how that impacts the universe/story in the 3rd game.

From what I've gathered, it doesn't. You simply start ME3 as if it's your first ME experience with no character to import.

It actually does because the team has stated that you will play as "A" shepard if you die in the second game.  They never actually said that it would be the same shepard or a clone etc. etc.  While I agree somewhat with you, it would make actually dying in the second game more of a cheap cop-out on BioWare's behalf instead of actually thinking of what to do if you did die.

EDIT: According to a few of you that seem to agree that this may be the case, then you really shouldnt worry about dying in the second game if you do because you arent really dying if you get to come back......AGAIN lol.  So, I guess BioWare went with the cheap cop-out route.  Even though you dont get to carry over your character/etc. you still arent really dying if this is the case.  And not the "permanent" death that they have advertised on numerous accounts.  WTG BioWare!!  For contradicting yourselves 

Modifié par Aradace, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:30 .

[griffinviiix]

I believe when they said "A Shepard" they meant a premade Shepard, not "Your Shepard". So like Atti Ito posted, it sounds like they are just having you start with a generic Shepard with their cannon decisions and thats it. Just like if you were to start a new game.



I think this is how they are doing as John Shepard is the protagonist, "your shepard" is a character in our story. So they can truly kill off ours with no major consequences, but killling off the archetype character would end any continuation. At least that is my opinion.

[Aradace]

griffinviiix wrote...

I believe when they said "A Shepard" they meant a premade Shepard, not "Your Shepard". So like Atti Ito posted, it sounds like they are just having you start with a generic Shepard with their cannon decisions and thats it. Just like if you were to start a new game.

I think this is how they are doing as John Shepard is the protagonist, "your shepard" is a character in our story. So they can truly kill off ours with no major consequences, but killling off the archetype character would end any continuation. At least that is my opinion.

Then they should stop advertising and putting so much emphasis on "Oh my god, you can die permanently at the end of the game." if thats the case.  Again, it makes sense so I agree with you but that doesnt mean that BioWare didnt drop the ball.  Why put so much emphasis on having a permanent death if in fact, it isnt really permanent even if you are only starting a "default" character.  With that said, it means that the "canon" ending is that you die because what if someone decides to play the 3rd game and not the 2nd or 1st? (as far fetched as that may seem it could happen.)  Which means if you do survive you are going off the course of the actual ME universe because Shep was supposed to die?  While I agree with you, it also begins to throw up some paradoxes.

[Arrtis]

they needed to add a perm death cause its a suicide mission or so they claim.

[Aradace]

Arrtis wrote...

they needed to add a perm death cause its a suicide mission or so they claim.

Exactly, and if you get to "avoid" death even by starting a "default" shepard...It's not really a permanent death.  Which makes your "alleged" suicide mission, not so....whats the word Im looking for.....Suicidal? lol

[akintu]

If Shep dies in ME2, its not like you can import that save and then get a default Shep. You just won't be importing that save. Each Shep is basically an alternate universe. If he dies in ME2, he's dead in that universe. Its not like starting a new default Shep brings him back from the grave.



Myself and some others hope there will be a cinematic of some sort if you import a game with Shep dead. Something that shows how the universe fairs with Shep gone. Reapers win and such But you still wouldn't be playing a game of any sort with that import file.

[Sammuthegreat]

I'm with Aradace on this one - it just doesn't make sense to be able to kill off "Commander Shepard" in ME2 if "Commander Shepard" turns up again in ME3; unless, that is, Cerberus manage to piece him together again, which is possible I suppose.



I honestly think it's much more likely that if you die, you start as a new character - it wouldn't necessarily mean a different story at all, just a few lines of dialogue here and there referencing Commander Shepard, deceased.

[Atti Ito]

Aradace wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

they needed to add a perm death cause its a suicide mission or so they claim.

Exactly, and if you get to "avoid" death even by starting a "default" shepard...It's not really a permanent death.  Which makes your "alleged" suicide mission, not so....whats the word Im looking for.....Suicidal? lol

But it still is suicidal for your character that you've most likely poured at that point, possibly 100 hours of more into. That character can die for good, and not return for the sequel. For that Shepard, ME3 doesn't happen. It's not really a cop-out. Think of it more along the lines of, every time you create your own Shepard, that's an alternate reality of ME. The standard 616 reality is canonic Sheploo. He survives ME2. But what about (to use one of my own) Ova Jean Shepard? She's one of millions of possible different realities involving Commander Shepard. What if, in her universe, Shepard fails the final mission? Well then that's the end of Ova and universe 9904 or whatever. 616 will continue on like normal without ever knowing that humanities greatest hero is dead, in another reality.

[Sammuthegreat]

alex_ladik wrote...


Myself and some others hope there will be a cinematic of some sort if you import a game with Shep dead. Something that shows how the universe fairs with Shep gone. Reapers win and such But you still wouldn't be playing a game of any sort with that import file.

Shepard dying doesn't necessarily mean that the Reapers will win. It's perfectly plausible that a second hero, human, spectre or otherwise could come along and pick up where Shepard left off. He's not Luke Skywalker people, he's never been called "The Chosen One." I for one think it'd be a cool story twist, and I'd definitely play through with Shepard both surviving and dying in different playthroughs. It'd be cool to see, for example, if dead ultra-renegade Shepards are remembered with rose-tinted spectacles, for their achievements rather than the way they carried out their missions. Similarly it'd be cool to see a dead ultra-paragon Shepard remembered in a way that totally forgets about the honourable manner in which they achieved their goals.

It really isn't a stretch to think of ways to incorporate Shepard's PERMANENT death into the story.

[akintu]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

I'm with Aradace on this one - it just doesn't make sense to be able to kill off "Commander Shepard" in ME2 if "Commander Shepard" turns up again in ME3; unless, that is, Cerberus manage to piece him together again, which is possible I suppose.

I honestly think it's much more likely that if you die, you start as a new character - it wouldn't necessarily mean a different story at all, just a few lines of dialogue here and there referencing Commander Shepard, deceased.

If your Shepard dies at the end of ME2, that is the end of the line for that Shepard.  No ME3.  This is what they mean by Shepard can die.  Rather than a game over, you get a valid storyline outcome for his death, but he's still dead.  If you buy ME3, you'll start a game in ME3 with the default Shepard (just like someone who bought it and doesn't have imports from ME1 and ME2), one from a "universe" where he survived the mission.  Your Shepard is dead and dead.  The universe your dead Shepard inhabited is boned, the Reapers win (maybe ).  

[griffinviiix]

Alex_ladik is on to the same line of thinking I am, and possibly how Bioware's devs think. Just starting in ME3 with a different character that is NOT Shepard will completely remove any trust/loyalty that was built up in ME 1/2. As we do not know what decisions are going to have huge impacts etc, not having Shepard deal with the consequences brings a big disconnect from their "decisions = consequences" platform. Also the consequence of your decisions as a player killing Shepard, is that your shepard in ME3 is no longer your shepard.

Also in a sense it is a permanent death, because the Shepard you spent time building up in ME1 and then spent time with in ME2 is dead. No chance to continue with in ME3. In a video game sense that is as dead as you can get.

[Aradace]

Atti Ito wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

they needed to add a perm death cause its a suicide mission or so they claim.

Exactly, and if you get to "avoid" death even by starting a "default" shepard...It's not really a permanent death.  Which makes your "alleged" suicide mission, not so....whats the word Im looking for.....Suicidal? lol

But it still is suicidal for your character that you've most likely poured at that point, possibly 100 hours of more into. That character can die for good, and not return for the sequel. For that Shepard, ME3 doesn't happen. It's not really a cop-out. Think of it more along the lines of, every time you create your own Shepard, that's an alternate reality of ME. The standard 616 reality is canonic Sheploo. He survives ME2. But what about (to use one of my own) Ova Jean Shepard? She's one of millions of possible different realities involving Commander Shepard. What if, in her universe, Shepard fails the final mission? Well then that's the end of Ova and universe 9904 or whatever. 616 will continue on like normal without ever knowing that humanities greatest hero is dead, in another reality.

Loooooovely, so we're going to start the whole "Star Trek" alternate universes bit now?  Sorry, but we've already jumped the shark with that route.  If this is in fact what BioWare wants to do it's their business but at the same time, it makes me lose faith in them (albiet only a tiny bit) that they couldnt come up with something original with that kind of ending and actually kill off a main character.  Again, I stand by my point that "star trek alternate universe" or not, you are still playing "Shepard" when you want to argue symantics about it, so again, 100+ hours or 1000+hours, you are still not dying a permanent death.  Even if they explained it by going the route someone else said of "cerebus rebuilding him.....again." it would still be lame because they made all this hype and advertising how you could die a permanent death when in fact, if this is the case here, you actually cant....Default or no.

[akintu]

griffinviiix wrote...

Alex_ladik is on to the same line of thinking I am, and possibly how Bioware's devs think. Just starting in ME3 with a different character that is NOT Shepard will completely remove any trust/loyalty that was built up in ME 1/2. As we do not know what decisions are going to have huge impacts etc, not having Shepard deal with the consequences brings a big disconnect from their "decisions = consequences" platform. Also the consequence of your decisions as a player killing Shepard, is that your shepard in ME3 is no longer your shepard.
Also in a sense it is a permanent death, because the Shepard you spent time building up in ME1 and then spent time with in ME2 is dead. No chance to continue with in ME3. In a video game sense that is as dead as you can get.

For all those reasons, and also technical reasons, its unlikely to see a new protagonist in ME3 for those who killed off Shepard.  You would need two new voice actors to voice the new male and female protagonist.  All lines referring to "Shepard" would have to be duplicated for the new protagonist, etc.  

However, I will definitely be killing my Shepard off on a playthrough, to see what happens.  And I also really really hope they do a "this is what happened with Shepard dead" sequence in ME3.  Maybe unlock it after you beat ME3 once to avoid spoilers.  A cinematic and text regarding what happened to some main characters.  Like Liara/Kaiden/Ashley going on their own suicide mission against the Reapers after losing Shep.  Wrex leading a losing guerilla war.  Depressing, but I'd get a kick out of it.  It'd be a nice touch, in my opinion.

[Atti Ito]

Aradace wrote...

Atti Ito wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

they needed to add a perm death cause its a suicide mission or so they claim.

Exactly, and if you get to "avoid" death even by starting a "default" shepard...It's not really a permanent death.  Which makes your "alleged" suicide mission, not so....whats the word Im looking for.....Suicidal? lol

But it still is suicidal for your character that you've most likely poured at that point, possibly 100 hours of more into. That character can die for good, and not return for the sequel. For that Shepard, ME3 doesn't happen. It's not really a cop-out. Think of it more along the lines of, every time you create your own Shepard, that's an alternate reality of ME. The standard 616 reality is canonic Sheploo. He survives ME2. But what about (to use one of my own) Ova Jean Shepard? She's one of millions of possible different realities involving Commander Shepard. What if, in her universe, Shepard fails the final mission? Well then that's the end of Ova and universe 9904 or whatever. 616 will continue on like normal without ever knowing that humanities greatest hero is dead, in another reality.

Loooooovely, so we're going to start the whole "Star Trek" alternate universes bit now?  Sorry, but we've already jumped the shark with that route.  If this is in fact what BioWare wants to do it's their business but at the same time, it makes me lose faith in them (albiet only a tiny bit) that they couldnt come up with something original with that kind of ending and actually kill off a main character.  Again, I stand by my point that "star trek alternate universe" or not, you are still playing "Shepard" when you want to argue symantics about it, so again, 100+ hours or 1000+hours, you are still not dying a permanent death.  Even if they explained it by going the route someone else said of "cerebus rebuilding him.....again." it would still be lame because they made all this hype and advertising how you could die a permanent death when in fact, if this is the case here, you actually cant....Default or no.

I see there is no pleasing you. Verywell, good day.

[Arrtis]

depending on HOW ME3 looks i may just say forget it i rather keep this story how it ended in ME 2

At least then i wont feel as though i didnt finish the story

i just didnt go everywhere in this choose your own adventure game.

[akintu]

Aradace wrote...
Loooooovely, so we're going to start the whole "Star Trek" alternate universes bit now?  Sorry, but we've already jumped the shark with that route.  If this is in fact what BioWare wants to do it's their business but at the same time, it makes me lose faith in them (albiet only a tiny bit) that they couldnt come up with something original with that kind of ending and actually kill off a main character.  Again, I stand by my point that "star trek alternate universe" or not, you are still playing "Shepard" when you want to argue symantics about it, so again, 100+ hours or 1000+hours, you are still not dying a permanent death.  Even if they explained it by going the route someone else said of "cerebus rebuilding him.....again." it would still be lame because they made all this hype and advertising how you could die a permanent death when in fact, if this is the case here, you actually cant....Default or no.

Dude, how is this that complex?  Your Shepard is not my Shepard.  If I kill off Shepard, your Shepard is not dead.  I have many Shepards.  When one dies, they don't all die.  Its not like Bioware is literally declaring it to be alternate universes.  That would be a metaphor we are using  

Edit - "Permanent death" means you can die at a certain point in the game and it is a valid ending for the game.  So instead of "Game Over, Load, Resume, Exit," the death is part of the story, and leading to ending cinematics, roll credits.  Would you prefer "permanent death" to lock your game, so you couldn't play any Shepards anymore?

Modifié par alex_ladik, 20 janvier 2010 - 02:15 .

[Sammuthegreat]

Atti Ito wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Atti Ito wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

they needed to add a perm death cause its a suicide mission or so they claim.

Exactly, and if you get to "avoid" death even by starting a "default" shepard...It's not really a permanent death.  Which makes your "alleged" suicide mission, not so....whats the word Im looking for.....Suicidal? lol

But it still is suicidal for your character that you've most likely poured at that point, possibly 100 hours of more into. That character can die for good, and not return for the sequel. For that Shepard, ME3 doesn't happen. It's not really a cop-out. Think of it more along the lines of, every time you create your own Shepard, that's an alternate reality of ME. The standard 616 reality is canonic Sheploo. He survives ME2. But what about (to use one of my own) Ova Jean Shepard? She's one of millions of possible different realities involving Commander Shepard. What if, in her universe, Shepard fails the final mission? Well then that's the end of Ova and universe 9904 or whatever. 616 will continue on like normal without ever knowing that humanities greatest hero is dead, in another reality.

Loooooovely, so we're going to start the whole "Star Trek" alternate universes bit now?  Sorry, but we've already jumped the shark with that route.  If this is in fact what BioWare wants to do it's their business but at the same time, it makes me lose faith in them (albiet only a tiny bit) that they couldnt come up with something original with that kind of ending and actually kill off a main character.  Again, I stand by my point that "star trek alternate universe" or not, you are still playing "Shepard" when you want to argue symantics about it, so again, 100+ hours or 1000+hours, you are still not dying a permanent death.  Even if they explained it by going the route someone else said of "cerebus rebuilding him.....again." it would still be lame because they made all this hype and advertising how you could die a permanent death when in fact, if this is the case here, you actually cant....Default or no.

I see there is no pleasing you. Verywell, good day.

I don't think it's a question of pleasing him. I completely agree with him; I understand the opposite viewpoint, which seems to be more or less the consensus, but I agree that it would be a weird cop-out that would raise serious confusion in a lot of players' minds in terms of continuity. I can imagine the scene - someone pops their new copy of ME3 in the game, slavering at the mouth to find out what's happened to the universe since they killed off Shepard in ME2... but wait, Shepard's back. Alive. Um...

I personally think it would be far more of a kick in the teeth for fans who have built up their Shepard over countless hours to NOT play as a new character in ME3 if their Shepard is dead. We all know that NG+ can be used to make the "perfect playthrough" anyway, so what would be the point in killing off Shepard in ME2 if there weren't any different story options in ME3? If ME3 is the same story whether you killed your Shepard off or not, what would be the point in killing him off at all? Especially when you could just replay ME2 with New Game + and keep YOUR Shepard?

I must reiterate, I understand the points that have been raised by those arguing the counter-opinion to mine. But until I'm shown a Dev post or interview snippet or anything to prove me wrong, I'm going to keep faith in BioWare and assume I'm right