41 réponses à ce sujet

[RyuKazuha]

If you don't like that theory, just don't play ME3 with a shep that is dead. If you really don't like the thought of alternate storylines, than i think you also never reload a game that you failed, since that would alter your storyline? You'd have to, if you are really that forcefull.



In the default storyline, Shepard won't die, you're just promted an ending, where the main character dies while achieving the goals of his mission.

[Sammuthegreat]

RyuKazuha wrote...

If you don't like that theory, just don't play ME3 with a shep that is dead. If you really don't like the thought of alternate storylines, than i think you also never reload a game that you failed, since that would alter your storyline? You'd have to, if you are really that forcefull.

In the default storyline, Shepard won't die, you're just promted an ending, where the main character dies while achieving the goals of his mission.

You're missing my point. It's not that I don't LIKE that theory, I just can't honestly see how or why BioWare would be so blind as to leave such a blatant gap in continuity, especially after claiming so often that "your choices have a lasting effect on the story and universe." If Shepard is alive in ME3 regardless of whether he survived your ME2 playthrough, then your choices have had NO lasting effect on the story and universe.

What I don't think people understand here is that it's no more of a technical stretch to have a new character in place of Shepard, than it is to have characters (Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan) potentially not appearing in ME2 depending on whether or not they survived ME1. For those who killed any of these characters, the voice actors won't say any lines at all in ME2, but they've still recorded the dialogue. It's no different to having a new voice actor record the lines for a new ME3 protagonist.

Anyway, where has it been said that Shepard's survival = victory? I just don't see why the universe couldn't, in theory, be saved by another character taking up Shepard's mantle after Shepard dies.

[Aradace]

RyuKazuha wrote...

If you don't like that theory, just don't play ME3 with a shep that is dead. If you really don't like the thought of alternate storylines, than i think you also never reload a game that you failed, since that would alter your storyline? You'd have to, if you are really that forcefull.

In the default storyline, Shepard won't die, you're just promted an ending, where the main character dies while achieving the goals of his mission.

*sigh* It's not so much that...Hell, it's not even the "theory" that bothers me...Its the fact that BioWare has put so much emphasis on this "alleged" permanent death when as I said, when you argue the "technicality" of it...Really isnt so permanent.  I concur though that if this is indeed the case, Ill just make sure NOT to "die" when I play through.  It's more the  marketing for it that irks me than anything else.  Why put sooooo much effort into saying that your can die permanently when you really cant. 

Again, I can see where the consensus' explanation comes into play from multiple angels but again, If ONE person thinks along the lines that I was on this, then that means there are more that will think along the same thought process.  Given, there may not be a staggering amount of people who think so, but there will still be others none the less.  It's almost false advertising to a degree but much like with the "There are no Female on Female relationships" topic, BioWare will be apparently bending the will of their own lore in order to avoid any claims of such false advertising.  (not saying it would be a legal issue or whatnot mind you just false advertising in general.)

If I come off sounding crass or cynical about the issue it's just that to me, when someone looks at me and says "Permanent Death"...I dont go immediately to: "Oh, that must mean I'll still get to play as a default character with none of my previous accomplishments attached."...I, instead, go to the logical course of thought of: "Oh, **** guess that means I better make sure he lives so that I can still play him in the next game..."  Case in point, I suppose my definition of "Permanent Death" and BioWares defintion are different.

[akintu]

Sammuthegreat wrote...
You're missing my point. It's not that I don't LIKE that theory, I just can't honestly see how or why BioWare would be so blind as to leave such a blatant gap in continuity, especially after claiming so often that "your choices have a lasting effect on the story and universe." If Shepard is alive in ME3 regardless of whether he survived your ME2 playthrough, then your choices have had NO lasting effect on the story and universe.

What I don't think people understand here is that it's no more of a technical stretch to have a new character in place of Shepard, than it is to have characters (Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan) potentially not appearing in ME2 depending on whether or not they survived ME1. For those who killed any of these characters, the voice actors won't say any lines at all in ME2, but they've still recorded the dialogue. It's no different to having a new voice actor record the lines for a new ME3 protagonist.

Anyway, where has it been said that Shepard's survival = victory? I just don't see why the universe couldn't, in theory, be saved by another character taking up Shepard's mantle after Shepard dies.

Technically, a new protagonist is orders of magnitude more voice work than a squad member.  All of Shepard's lines are spoken, so you have just doubled the space required for all of those lines.  You will also have to pay voice actors for a significant amount of work.  Its not like these guys are being paid minimum wage.  Additionally, every NPC that refers to Shepard will have to record a new line that is identical except it refers to Commander Goat Herder instead.

So it is extremely unlikely you'll be able to load up ME3, import a dead Shep ME2 save, and play through ME3 as a new character with Shepard dead references.  Like I said, I do really hope we will be able to import a ME2 save with Shepard dead and immediately go to a cinematic that closes out the story of the universe and the Reapers with Shepard dead.  That would be some nice closure, and is feasible technically.  

In theory, there is no reason someone else couldn't save the day if Shepard dies.  But it would be rather...flat, if so.  Mass Effect is the story of Shepard and the Reapers.  He is rather like Luke Skywalker.  Not because he is the chosen one or whatever, but because it is his story.  How interesting would Return of the Jedi be if Luke died at the end of Empire Strikes Back and we got some FNG to fill his role in RotJ?  Why would we care about the new guy?  I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it just doesn't strike me as an effective storytelling device...

[TwoStu]

If you die in ME2 you fail reapers win and destroy the universe and there is no me3.

[Aradace]

alex_ladik wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...
You're missing my point. It's not that I don't LIKE that theory, I just can't honestly see how or why BioWare would be so blind as to leave such a blatant gap in continuity, especially after claiming so often that "your choices have a lasting effect on the story and universe." If Shepard is alive in ME3 regardless of whether he survived your ME2 playthrough, then your choices have had NO lasting effect on the story and universe.

What I don't think people understand here is that it's no more of a technical stretch to have a new character in place of Shepard, than it is to have characters (Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan) potentially not appearing in ME2 depending on whether or not they survived ME1. For those who killed any of these characters, the voice actors won't say any lines at all in ME2, but they've still recorded the dialogue. It's no different to having a new voice actor record the lines for a new ME3 protagonist.

Anyway, where has it been said that Shepard's survival = victory? I just don't see why the universe couldn't, in theory, be saved by another character taking up Shepard's mantle after Shepard dies.

Technically, a new protagonist is orders of magnitude more voice work than a squad member.  All of Shepard's lines are spoken, so you have just doubled the space required for all of those lines.  You will also have to pay voice actors for a significant amount of work.  Its not like these guys are being paid minimum wage.  Additionally, every NPC that refers to Shepard will have to record a new line that is identical except it refers to Commander Goat Herder instead.

So it is extremely unlikely you'll be able to load up ME3, import a dead Shep ME2 save, and play through ME3 as a new character with Shepard dead references.  Like I said, I do really hope we will be able to import a ME2 save with Shepard dead and immediately go to a cinematic that closes out the story of the universe and the Reapers with Shepard dead.  That would be some nice closure, and is feasible technically.  

In theory, there is no reason someone else couldn't save the day if Shepard dies.  But it would be rather...flat, if so.  Mass Effect is the story of Shepard and the Reapers.  He is rather like Luke Skywalker.  Not because he is the chosen one or whatever, but because it is his story.  How interesting would Return of the Jedi be if Luke died at the end of Empire Strikes Back and we got some FNG to fill his role in RotJ?  Why would we care about the new guy?  I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it just doesn't strike me as an effective storytelling device...

Now there's an idea I like...well, part of it....If you "Die" in ME2...then they should simply have it so that you cannot "import" that file at all in ME3 seeing as how you are "dead".  If they did it like that, I'd have no complaints.  Because they have already mentioned that if you do die at the end of this one, you cant do a NG+ with him.  (Was on X-play last night during the half hour ME2 special)

[akintu]

Aradace wrote...
Now there's an idea I like...well, part of it....If you "Die" in ME2...then they should simply have it so that you cannot "import" that file at all in ME3 seeing as how you are "dead".  If they did it like that, I'd have no complaints.  Because they have already mentioned that if you do die at the end of this one, you cant do a NG+ with him.  (Was on X-play last night during the half hour ME2 special)

I mean, I'm not a dev, but I'm pretty sure that is spot on.  No importing of dead Shep's to continue playing as default Shep.  Pretty pretty please let them allow us to "import" a dead Shep for a cinematic of some sort (not actually playing, just show us what happens to the universe with him gone)

[hawat333]

In my own view a perfect playthrough is one where I completed every assignement, scanned every planet, and still played out the character's personality.



So if someone dies who I didn't intent to kill - but it's a consequence of my previous actions that was driven my the personality, it will be a perfect save for me.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Aradace I think you should just wait till the game is out and you can see firsthand what they done on the whole 'death' front.

I can see where you are coming from, to be able to import the data from a dead shep in ME2 to have it that almost all the things 'bar what ensured he died' are kept is a bit silly. Personally I think 'dead shep' should end in ME2, cinematic or epilogue text stuff should explain what happened after perhaps (or maybe it is obvious what happened, we don't know yet) and that is that version of the story all done and dusted. The player then either imports a different shep that did survive into ME3 or starts a new shepherd just as they can in ME2, making up that shepherd's canon story leading up to ME3.

As for my beliefs on what I am looking to do. Whilst it would be nice to complete ME2 with minimal/no casualties on my team, am just going to roll with the dice that I help cast. I just hope at least one of the 4 sheps I intend to playthrough ME2 with (2 brought through from ME, 2 newly created ones) makes it through to the end

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 20 janvier 2010 - 03:21 .

[Aradace]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Aradace I think you should just wait till the game is out and you can see firsthand what they done on the whole 'death' front.

I can see where you are coming from, to be able to import the data from a dead shep in ME2 to have it that almost all the things 'bar what ensured he died' are kept is a bit silly. Personally I think 'dead shep' should end in ME2, cinematic or epilogue text stuff should explain what happened after perhaps (or maybe it is obvious what happened, we don't know yet) and that is that version of the story all done and dusted. The player then either imports a different shep that did survive into ME3 or starts a new shepherd just as they can in ME2, making up that shepherd's canon story leading up to ME3.

Oh I plan on waiting...that was never the issue...If you read my previous posts my problem was with (omg I almost typed Turbine instead of BioWare lol) BioWare putting so much hype on a permanent death and it not being permanent (given other posters hyperbole along with mine).  But seeing as how we've come to a "sensible conclusion" on that front that satisfies everyone, it is, in fact, a matter now of "wait and see" and wait I shall

[Sammuthegreat]

Aradace wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Aradace I think you should just wait till the game is out and you can see firsthand what they done on the whole 'death' front.

I can see where you are coming from, to be able to import the data from a dead shep in ME2 to have it that almost all the things 'bar what ensured he died' are kept is a bit silly. Personally I think 'dead shep' should end in ME2, cinematic or epilogue text stuff should explain what happened after perhaps (or maybe it is obvious what happened, we don't know yet) and that is that version of the story all done and dusted. The player then either imports a different shep that did survive into ME3 or starts a new shepherd just as they can in ME2, making up that shepherd's canon story leading up to ME3.

Oh I plan on waiting...that was never the issue...If you read my previous posts my problem was with (omg I almost typed Turbine instead of BioWare lol) BioWare putting so much hype on a permanent death and it not being permanent (given other posters hyperbole along with mine).  But seeing as how we've come to a "sensible conclusion" on that front that satisfies everyone, it is, in fact, a matter now of "wait and see" and wait I shall

Hold the phone, that conclusion doesn't satisfy everyone. It's better than Shepard dying then arbitrarily starting ME3 as "canon-Shep," but I still think it'd be a bit lame for the whole world to end just because one guy died. I'd like to save the day in MY Shepard's "version of the universe," regardless of whether he survives or not.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Aradace wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Aradace I think you should just wait till the game is out and you can see firsthand what they done on the whole 'death' front.

I can see where you are coming from, to be able to import the data from a dead shep in ME2 to have it that almost all the things 'bar what ensured he died' are kept is a bit silly. Personally I think 'dead shep' should end in ME2, cinematic or epilogue text stuff should explain what happened after perhaps (or maybe it is obvious what happened, we don't know yet) and that is that version of the story all done and dusted. The player then either imports a different shep that did survive into ME3 or starts a new shepherd just as they can in ME2, making up that shepherd's canon story leading up to ME3.

Oh I plan on waiting...that was never the issue...If you read my previous posts my problem was with (omg I almost typed Turbine instead of BioWare lol) BioWare putting so much hype on a permanent death and it not being permanent (given other posters hyperbole along with mine).  But seeing as how we've come to a "sensible conclusion" on that front that satisfies everyone, it is, in fact, a matter now of "wait and see" and wait I shall

Totally agree, I can understand your concern. I admit that when DAO was being hyped up for the whole actions/consequences thing, I over-anticipated what would be in there and ended up a little bit disappointed, though from what I gather some stuff was cut due to one reason or another. So no real biggy.

Again in the ME2 videos they have been making the actions/consequences speech again and so I've learned not to over-anticipate what that means.

Edit: @Sammuthegreat this is why I think we need to wait, we don't know how it is going to play out, I think we should just show some faith that they have accounted for all the possibilities.

I agree that Shep dying doesn't surely have to mean the mission is a failure, it could perhaps be on the way out after they've achieved their objective or something. We don't know yet and as such think we just need to wait

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 20 janvier 2010 - 03:30 .

[Aradace]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Aradace I think you should just wait till the game is out and you can see firsthand what they done on the whole 'death' front.

I can see where you are coming from, to be able to import the data from a dead shep in ME2 to have it that almost all the things 'bar what ensured he died' are kept is a bit silly. Personally I think 'dead shep' should end in ME2, cinematic or epilogue text stuff should explain what happened after perhaps (or maybe it is obvious what happened, we don't know yet) and that is that version of the story all done and dusted. The player then either imports a different shep that did survive into ME3 or starts a new shepherd just as they can in ME2, making up that shepherd's canon story leading up to ME3.

Oh I plan on waiting...that was never the issue...If you read my previous posts my problem was with (omg I almost typed Turbine instead of BioWare lol) BioWare putting so much hype on a permanent death and it not being permanent (given other posters hyperbole along with mine).  But seeing as how we've come to a "sensible conclusion" on that front that satisfies everyone, it is, in fact, a matter now of "wait and see" and wait I shall

Hold the phone, that conclusion doesn't satisfy everyone. It's better than Shepard dying then arbitrarily starting ME3 as "canon-Shep," but I still think it'd be a bit lame for the whole world to end just because one guy died. I'd like to save the day in MY Shepard's "version of the universe," regardless of whether he survives or not.

This is also true...However, the inability to import the "dead" shepard profile(s) likely the more plausable course of action.  I still agree with you that it's still a bit "lame"  But life is unfortunately about comprimise (as is marriage lol) and the inability to import my dead shepard would be an "acceptable" one...Doesnt mean I "like" the idea per se, but it is an acceptable alternative to BioWare's cop-out.

[Sammuthegreat]

Aradace wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Aradace I think you should just wait till the game is out and you can see firsthand what they done on the whole 'death' front.

I can see where you are coming from, to be able to import the data from a dead shep in ME2 to have it that almost all the things 'bar what ensured he died' are kept is a bit silly. Personally I think 'dead shep' should end in ME2, cinematic or epilogue text stuff should explain what happened after perhaps (or maybe it is obvious what happened, we don't know yet) and that is that version of the story all done and dusted. The player then either imports a different shep that did survive into ME3 or starts a new shepherd just as they can in ME2, making up that shepherd's canon story leading up to ME3.

Oh I plan on waiting...that was never the issue...If you read my previous posts my problem was with (omg I almost typed Turbine instead of BioWare lol) BioWare putting so much hype on a permanent death and it not being permanent (given other posters hyperbole along with mine).  But seeing as how we've come to a "sensible conclusion" on that front that satisfies everyone, it is, in fact, a matter now of "wait and see" and wait I shall

Hold the phone, that conclusion doesn't satisfy everyone. It's better than Shepard dying then arbitrarily starting ME3 as "canon-Shep," but I still think it'd be a bit lame for the whole world to end just because one guy died. I'd like to save the day in MY Shepard's "version of the universe," regardless of whether he survives or not.

This is also true...However, the inability to import the "dead" shepard profile(s) likely the more plausable course of action.  I still agree with you that it's still a bit "lame"  But life is unfortunately about comprimise (as is marriage lol) and the inability to import my dead shepard would be an "acceptable" one...Doesnt mean I "like" the idea per se, but it is an acceptable alternative to BioWare's cop-out.

Well, it's acceptable, yes. I still see it as a cop-out though, if only because BioWare could do so much more! In any case, ME2's still not even out yet, and I'll buy ME3 in any case, and I'll love it.

[Aradace]

Ultimately, that is the course I'll take too despite any complaints I have lol....Curse you BioWare hehe

[Atti Ito]

So we were arguing our aggreance the whole time? From the beginning I made it clear that if you died in ME2 that you could not import to ME3. Infact that's the first thing I said. What we're you complaining about before then?

[ODST 3]

camcon2100 wrote...

I was thinking about the consequences in mass effect 2. I know you can save everyone and stuff but what i want to do for ME3 is go off my first playthrough at least the first time through so it feels like my mistakes and choices really carried over. I just think the story will be alot better that way.
What do you guys think

Yeah, I intend to save my first playthrough for the authenticity of going through the unknown.