243 réponses à ce sujet

[hangmans tree]

Really?
How did it happen that I have no say in my thread? I go to sleep and the next day I see thread closed. WTF people?
Is BSN really incapable of DISCUSSION?

I didnt start it for forumites to toil over describing MEU shortcomings or DA past dissapointments. I had tendencies in mind. Storytelling, narrative, all the tools writers can use to craft a story. That's what is important.

Not some childis arguments in a sandpit. Whose more right, the ones that liked a game or the ones that didnt...

Back on topic.
When DAO was played, done and put to sleep I began to wonder how could this story be written anew.
A character that is saved from the sloughter of Ostogar. Pulled from the captives-to-torture, saved from the darkspawn. Lets say by Flemeth. His new purpose - to work in shadows, and pave the way for the remaining Grey Wardens and their companions who set on the journey to end the Blight. Imagine all you've done as GW was thanks to ominous forces working behind your back. Your success was achived thanks to those few battleing the odds. To make the final sacrefice possible.
Now think off all developements that could be interwaved with Origins plot and Wardens trail. Now that would be a story to tell. The Heroes of Feralden never knew its all thanks to you and your companions that the Landsmeet actually happened. That the assasins arrow never reached Wardens heart. That the bridge in Orzammar was still intact when the heroes needed it. Constant race agains time, with too few moments of respite, a little bit for love, maybe.

So please dont tell me stories cant be written in a way to forget they build upon something that already was... If I can think of a few ideas I'm sure writers could spring a dozen more, and of better quality I imagine (dragons, lol).

I want to forget past misfortunes in BW accomplisments. I want to be angaged in DAI story, to progress with the held breath, gripped by the narrative and moved by companions stricken by their backstory. Is it too much to ask? i wonder.
(To clarify - personally, DA2 had almost none I cared about, elf girl ended up as LI because there was no one else interesting enough).

Modifié par hangmans tree, 22 novembre 2013 - 10:21 .

[Plaintiff]

I don't get what this thread is supposed to be about. You have this rambling "what-if" scenario that serves no purpose that I can discern, and then you say you want an "engaging story", which is just about the most vague and useless feedback ever. You could at least provide some examples of what you consider "engaging".

[hangmans tree]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't get what this thread is supposed to be about. You have this rambling "what-if" scenario that serves no purpose that I can discern, and then you say you want an "engaging story", which is just about the most vague and useless feedback ever. You could at least provide some examples of what you consider "engaging".

It continues previous thread... and topics in it.

Engaging - significant for your character, a driving force. Something you can relate toand have the power to influence. What so vague about it? I wont specify or enumerate fully shaped ideas, otherwise I would be making DAI as BW staff wouldn't I?

[OdanUrr]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't get what this thread is supposed to be about.

That makes two.

@OP: Are you somehow complaining about the as-of-yet-unknown plot of DAI?

Modifié par OdanUrr, 22 novembre 2013 - 11:28 .

[Laughing_Man]

Discussions sometimes get out of hand, and threads sometimes get locked.
It's part of life in BSN, deal with it.

[Afro_Explosion]

Locked thread part 2

[Lord Raijin]

Are you trying to give the virtual middle finger to the mods on here? I think that will only make them angry and thus declare Right of Annulment on our asses.

[Direwolf0294]

So what you're asking for is a sidequel? The plot of DA:O, but told from someone elses perspective?

It seems to me that instead of Dragon Age 2 you wanted Dragon Age: Origins 2, which isn't an unreasonable request—many have made it—but unlike others you wanted it in the most literal of senses. Not a continuation of the story, but a retelling.

Personally, while I'm all for BioWare branching out from the heroes journey, save the world plot, I don't really think what your asking for would be fun. If it was woven into the original DA:O, great; as a seperate game though, no, I just don't think it would have been good.

Apologies if I've misread the intent of your post—it was very vague—and if I have please disregard my reply.

[Fast Jimmy]

mx_keep13 wrote...

Locked thread part 2

[Boycott Bioware]

Sadly it get locked right after i am talking about KotOR narrative...i don't understand it my self...why Allan why??

You see...in KotOR, although Revan is supposed to save the galaxy from Malak and and the Star Forge factory of destruction, but the narrative is not about that at all, Revan is not a hero. Revan is just cleaning the mess he/she started or pulling out the thorn on his/her side

That is what unique about KotOR story compared with DA2. In DA2 everything is about Hawke, because Hawke is supposed to be a hero, Hawke is a Champion, but the narrative itself contradict the trope. Hawke is a failed hero

Although KotOR dn't have the "gathering allies to save the world", the story itself is strong, the player attached to the world and not just to Revan, because the story is not about Revan, the story is about many other things, Revan him/herself is the bad evil guy, he/she just lost his/her memory

Compared to Hawke, Revan is a stronger main character with a strong theme, even Revan is not a hero but the player feel being Revan...not many player cared Hawke or feel being Hawke

[Boycott Bioware]

What unique about Star Wars narrative is the main character is not the center of the universe, the story is about the universe. Even in the movie, we cannot say who is the hero and who is the villain, because they are not the main focus, the main focus is the story.

DA despite it is claimed to be the story about Thedas, but it is not so, because the main character is a hero, there are too much of heroism element being put into the main character, such as...The Warden who unite the land against the Blight, everything is "the Warden did it" and in DA2 "Hawke who defeat the Qunari" and everything is about "Hawke did it", the difference between the two is Hawke is a failed hero

So, if DA:I following the same manner, that is heroism of the main character, the story will cliche like DA:O, or worse broken like DA2

Modifié par Qistina, 22 novembre 2013 - 01:02 .

[wolfsite]

hangmans tree wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't get what this thread is supposed to be about. You have this rambling "what-if" scenario that serves no purpose that I can discern, and then you say you want an "engaging story", which is just about the most vague and useless feedback ever. You could at least provide some examples of what you consider "engaging".

It continues previous thread... and topics in it.

Engaging - significant for your character, a driving force. Something you can relate toand have the power to influence. What so vague about it? I wont specify or enumerate fully shaped ideas, otherwise I would be making DAI as BW staff wouldn't I?

The problem is everyone will have a different concept or idea of what they feel is engaging, while some people may find a game more focused on teh characters or a smaller but more personal crisis engaging, others may feel that would be uninteresting as they would prefer larger scale issues or overcoming large identifiable villains to become hero of all the land.

Everybody likes different things so you can't really talk about having something engaging while painting with a broad brush as there will be people who will not agree with what you are painting or may not understand the true focus of it due to so many points being covered but not many getting detail from the painter..

[hangmans tree]

wolfsite wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't get what this thread is supposed to be about. You have this rambling "what-if" scenario that serves no purpose that I can discern, and then you say you want an "engaging story", which is just about the most vague and useless feedback ever. You could at least provide some examples of what you consider "engaging".

It continues previous thread... and topics in it.

Engaging - significant for your character, a driving force. Something you can relate toand have the power to influence. What so vague about it? I wont specify or enumerate fully shaped ideas, otherwise I would be making DAI as BW staff wouldn't I?

The problem is everyone will have a different concept or idea of what they feel is engaging, while some people may find a game more focused on teh characters or a smaller but more personal crisis engaging, others may feel that would be uninteresting as they would prefer larger scale issues or overcoming large identifiable villains to become hero of all the land.

Everybody likes different things so you can't really talk about having something engaging while painting with a broad brush as there will be people who will not agree with what you are painting or may not understand the true focus of it due to so many points being covered but not many getting detail from the painter..

True, but it has to be done regardeless, right? Whatever the creators decide they have to find something common for all of us. Otherwise they would be making a game for few lucky ones to fit in the criteria.

All of us who play rpgs like to have control over the avatar, and choices we make have to reflect in changes that happen. Its like ripples on the water. Protagonist have to be that drop, his actions - the ripples. As far reaching as big the drop was. We all like uniqness. We dream to be the only one, we create our "cannon" of the world, or rather state of the world we leave it in.
If a story wont engage the player on a certain level it will fail in his eyes. So I think there are several hooks for different types of players that devs take into account creating the game, to cover as many bases as possible.

For those who didnt catch why I was describing an alternative DAO story - to illustrate a different approach to storytelling. The hero of the story would be a NPC Warden, the player would the one creating possibilities for the Warden to win against the darkspawn. Lay groundwork for the peace negotiations, etc.

Dont start arguing over superiority of one game vs another please.

[Little Princess Peach]

well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

[hangmans tree]

Tharja wrote...
well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

You get to "save" the world by aiding the one who does the final deed of saving the world. So you would be a hero on a smaller scale... or not a hero at all, 'coz no one would know of your work done to help the Warden.
Why do I have to explain this? Is my point not gettin across? Is something wrong with my english? i thought the idea was clear.

[Cheylus]

Tharja wrote...

well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

- investigation
- vengeance
- finding the meaning of life
- finding who you really are
- becoming the best at something
...
all I can think of in 20 seconds.

[Wulfram]

Playing a covert hero that doesn't get public acclaim for their actions could be interesting, but I don't really see any attraction to playing a secondary hero while the big stuff gets done by someone else.

[LOLandStuff]

Oblivion.

PC: Yeah, man. I was right there. Right under Mehrun Dagon.
Someone: Wow, what did you do? Did you kill him?
PC: Nope. I escorted the king.
Someone: And then you killed him, right?
PC: I just stood there and watched them fight. VIP lodge. It pays to know the king.

[Boycott Bioware]

"The world will go on without you..." - Sloth Demon

I agree with him, what make us important? What makes the main character is important? Do everything must be sparked by the main character? Do everything must be focused on the main character?

The main character must be involved in an event but it doesn't mean that the main character is the factor of every events

[The Xand]

Qistina wrote...

What unique about Star Wars narrative is the main character is not the center of the universe, the story is about the universe. Even in the movie, we cannot say who is the hero and who is the villain, because they are not the main focus, the main focus is the story.

DA despite it is claimed to be the story about Thedas, but it is not so, because the main character is a hero, there are too much of heroism element being put into the main character, such as...The Warden who unite the land against the Blight, everything is "the Warden did it" and in DA2 "Hawke who defeat the Qunari" and everything is about "Hawke did it", the difference between the two is Hawke is a failed hero

So, if DA:I following the same manner, that is heroism of the main character, the story will cliche like DA:O, or worse broken like DA2

Star Wars had a pretty terrible story to be fair. It was pretty much all about lightsabres and space battles.

I really liked Hawke and his story, esp because it had a much tighter narrative and a focus on Kirkwall. The ending was delightfully bittersweet.

Qistina wrote...

"The world will go on without you..." - Sloth Demon

I agree with him, what make us important? What makes the main character is important? Do everything must be sparked by the main character? Do everything must be focused on the main character?

The main character must be involved in an event but it doesn't mean that the main character is the factor of every events

Play the Sims if you don't want to be a hero.

From what I've seen of Inquisition Bioware have done an admirable job of portraying a world at war, with your character just a small part of a larger picture.

Modifié par The Xand, 22 novembre 2013 - 04:14 .

[Avaflame]

So a good sequel (if it can be called such) is one that undermines the achievements of the former protagonist? People would love that, everyone hates their warden.

[Razored1313]

hangmans tree wrote...

Tharja wrote...
well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

You get to "save" the world by aiding the one who does the final deed of saving the world. So you would be a hero on a smaller scale... or not a hero at all, 'coz no one would know of your work done to help the Warden.
Why do I have to explain this? Is my point not gettin across? Is something wrong with my english? i thought the idea was clear.

well a warden who doesn't do the dark ritual or slay the archdemon and instead lets Alistair/Loghain do it is essentially that, minus the whole unknown part at the end. For example they say in the epilogue for Loghain that all of his sins are forgotten by history and they remember him as a hero, and morrigan even tells you that you will only be remembered as one of the followers of the great Alistair/Loghain if you let them kill the archdemon.

Modifié par froogle345, 22 novembre 2013 - 04:19 .

[TeamLexana]

hangmans tree wrote...

Tharja wrote...
well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

You get to "save" the world by aiding the one who does the final deed of saving the world. So you would be a hero on a smaller scale... or not a hero at all, 'coz no one would know of your work done to help the Warden.
Why do I have to explain this? Is my point not gettin across? Is something wrong with my english? i thought the idea was clear.

I don't think that work after Origins. To go from the big damn hero to just some that can say "I was there." Proof: Dragon Age 2 Hawke. 

New game series sure, sounds like it worked in Kotor from descriptions in this thread and the other (I haven't played it myself) but not Dragon Age though where it's already established that you CAN be the big damn hero.

[TurretSyndrome]

There was a game which did exactly this. No world crisis, no immediate threat, just plain and simple story about the life of a boy growing up to be a man, and then finding about himself and the world. It's called Breath of Fire 3. People who want a "no immediate crisis" story should check it out.

Being someone who played that game and a few others which are like that, I have to say it gets quite boring. These games weren't great or epic, just OK or good at best. My point is, that's how they're going to end up to be. The reason for that is because they evade the crisis plot and try to tell a story of someone doing "chores".

Hawke's story was like that a bit too. There was no feeling of some epic achievement after finishing it. All he did throughout the game was doing chores, earning money, and ultimately getting himself into inescapable trouble.

While "save the world" goal carrying games use the same formula over and over, it works, and keeps most gamers who play these games, interested and invested. The games that don't use this very formula need to actually have a very convincing story, world and characters to be really good. Most aren't, and that's because of the lack of "thrill" of saving the world.

Having said all that, DA: I is already set with your typical "save the world" plot, so this discussion on wanting it to not have such a plot is just a waste of time. You might as well ask for another game or better yet a DLC which could feature a character's(preferably deceased) story who was present during certain fairly important events(my favorite being Malcom Hawke's tale of sealing Corypheus or escaping the Templars etc).

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 22 novembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[Magehand2278]

Your suggestion unfortunately reminds me a lot of Prince of Persia the Warrior Within