243 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

(thinks extraordinary thoughts while he sorts his mail)

Modifié par dreamgazer, 23 novembre 2013 - 01:32 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

ruggly wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

All these universal rules of storytelling, guys ...

/push them out the window

How about HEROISM!

*interrupt stab*

You're heroing too hard.

[Siegdrifa]

I Wonder if some people are not misunderstanding what it takes for a story to be good for their preferences and what is a story.
Even the worst told and boring story IS a story.

[ruggly]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

ruggly wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

All these universal rules of storytelling, guys ...

/push them out the window

How about HEROISM!

*interrupt stab*

You're heroing too hard.

/gun shot to a gasline interrupt

You hero too much.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

ruggly wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

ruggly wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

All these universal rules of storytelling, guys ...

/push them out the window

How about HEROISM!

*interrupt stab*

You're heroing too hard.

/gun shot to a gasline interrupt

You hero too much.

We can be heroes, just for one day



What if David is DAVID BOWIE?!? 



SO MUCH MAKES SENSE NOW!

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 23 novembre 2013 - 01:51 .

[Plaintiff]

Tharja wrote...

well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

Literally anything else?

There are so many options for engaging stories that have nothing to do with saving the world.

[Afro_Explosion]

(heroically walks to the fridge)

[ruggly]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

ruggly wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

ruggly wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

All these universal rules of storytelling, guys ...

/push them out the window

How about HEROISM!

*interrupt stab*

You're heroing too hard.

/gun shot to a gasline interrupt

You hero too much.

We can be heroes, just for one day



What if David is DAVID BOWIE?!? 



SO MUCH MAKES SENSE NOW!

But Massively, I NEED A HERO

[Br3admax]

Why did I click on that link?

[Bugsie]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

We can be heroes, just for one day

What if David is DAVID BOWIE?!?

SO MUCH MAKES SENSE NOW!

You insult the Thin White Duke with your assumptions. I'm pretty sure David Bowie reads/watches/experiences stuff before he sings about it.

[Steelcan]

Buggirl70 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

We can be heroes, just for one day

What if David is DAVID BOWIE?!?

SO MUCH MAKES SENSE NOW!

You insult the Thin White Duke with your assumptions. I'm pretty sure David Bowie reads/watches/experiences stuff before he sings about it.

you good sir/madam made my day

[Zu Long]

Plaintiff wrote...

Tharja wrote...

well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

Literally anything else?

There are so many options for engaging stories that have nothing to do with saving the world.

Didn't you get on the OP's case a few pages ago for providing useless feedback? "Something, ANYTHING" is not particularly useful. At least the OP had a suggestion, even if, as you put it, it was a rambling what-if scenario.

[Silfren]

hangmans tree wrote...

Really?
How did it happen that I have no say in my thread? I go to sleep and the next day I see thread closed. WTF people?
Is BSN really incapable of DISCUSSION?

I didnt start it for forumites to toil over describing MEU shortcomings or DA past dissapointments. I had tendencies in mind. Storytelling, narrative, all the tools writers can use to craft a story. That's what is important.

Not some childis arguments in a sandpit. Whose more right, the ones that liked a game or the ones that didnt...

Back on topic.
When DAO was played, done and put to sleep I began to wonder how could this story be written anew.
A character that is saved from the sloughter of Ostogar. Pulled from the captives-to-torture, saved from the darkspawn. Lets say by Flemeth. His new purpose - to work in shadows, and pave the way for the remaining Grey Wardens and their companions who set on the journey to end the Blight. Imagine all you've done as GW was thanks to ominous forces working behind your back. Your success was achived thanks to those few battleing the odds. To make the final sacrefice possible.
Now think off all developements that could be interwaved with Origins plot and Wardens trail. Now that would be a story to tell. The Heroes of Feralden never knew its all thanks to you and your companions that the Landsmeet actually happened. That the assasins arrow never reached Wardens heart. That the bridge in Orzammar was still intact when the heroes needed it. Constant race agains time, with too few moments of respite, a little bit for love, maybe.

So please dont tell me stories cant be written in a way to forget they build upon something that already was... If I can think of a few ideas I'm sure writers could spring a dozen more, and of better quality I imagine (dragons, lol).

I want to forget past misfortunes in BW accomplisments. I want to be angaged in DAI story, to progress with the held breath, gripped by the narrative and moved by companions stricken by their backstory. Is it too much to ask? i wonder.
(To clarify - personally, DA2 had almost none I cared about, elf girl ended up as LI because there was no one else interesting enough).

Count me among those who don't understand what you're asking for.  Do you want Inquisition to be a retelling of Origins, or something?  Or do you just want them to axe Inquisition and literally reboot DA:O?

[Silfren]

hangmans tree wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't get what this thread is supposed to be about. You have this rambling "what-if" scenario that serves no purpose that I can discern, and then you say you want an "engaging story", which is just about the most vague and useless feedback ever. You could at least provide some examples of what you consider "engaging".

It continues previous thread... and topics in it.

Engaging - significant for your character, a driving force. Something you can relate toand have the power to influence. What so vague about it? I wont specify or enumerate fully shaped ideas, otherwise I would be making DAI as BW staff wouldn't I?

Dude, I think you're safe to specify or enumerate any fully-shaped ideas you want. 

[Silfren]

Medhia Nox wrote.
Not a single successful story ever written has ever been about ordinary people doing ordinary things in an ordinary way.

.......

There have been COUNTLESS successful stories written about just that.

[Silfren]

David7204 wrote...

It is correct.

Maybe not in the sense of there being some physical law preventing certain words from existing in a certain order, but in just about every other. Storytellers don't make stories like that and people don't spend time with them.

I can only guess that you only read heroic/epic fantasy, because this is patently untrue.  Bookstores have entire sections devoted to the kind of stories which are about ordinary people leaving ordinary lives, and these books are quite popular.  There is always conflict, but conflict need not be anything more unusual than the mundane everyday conflicts we all face in relationships, work, etc.

[Plaintiff]

Zu Long wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Tharja wrote...

well if you don't want to save the world what the heck is the hero supposed to do?

Literally anything else?

There are so many options for engaging stories that have nothing to do with saving the world.

Didn't you get on the OP's case a few pages ago for providing useless feedback? "Something, ANYTHING" is not particularly useful. At least the OP had a suggestion, even if, as you put it, it was a rambling what-if scenario.

Since I'm not giving feedback to Bioware or anyone else about what I personally want to see, I'm not required to be specific. And since the poster I was responding too apparently is unable to conceive of any narrative that doesn't involve saving the world, specifics wouldn't help. In order for someone to understand specifics, they must first be made aware of the broad concept.

And in OP's previous thread, I gave many, many examples of types narratives and possible character motivations that have nothing whatsoever to do with saving the world.

And OP's suggestion is, as far as I can discern, a narrative about saving the world; the exact opposite of what he claims to be asking for.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 novembre 2013 - 05:58 .

[Silfren]

David7204 wrote...

Looking at the Wikipedia page, probably in part because of the conflict between her choice of husbands, to start. Wikipedia has a line that literally says "Peter reintroduces these conflicts by paying a visit that morning."

Traumatic stress...
Hallucinations...
Suicide...

These are all conflicts.

People aren't arguing that stories don't need conflict.

The relevant post you made which people are refuting is this one: "Stories are, by their very definition, the unlikely, the unexpected, the uncanny, the unanticipated, the unique. So they've got to either have extraordinary characters or extraordinary events involving them."

By making it all about conflict now, you've just changed the goalpost.  Your original assertion was NOT about conflict at all.  Do cease and desist with this dishonest attempt to re-frame the discussion rather than admit that your original claim is simply untenable.

Modifié par Silfren, 23 novembre 2013 - 06:00 .

[J4N3_M3]

ah, the joys of some people not reading a lot trying to define what a story is because if it works for them it works for everyone. The world, though, doesn't work that way. There are very successful romance authors out there. I don't care for romance novels at all. By your logic this means that all those romance novels are no stories because they don't work for me. Or another example: Frank Herbert's book Dune is considered a scifi classic. While many people love it - i mean it has conflict, heroic actions, a strong hero, hey, even sandworms in it - I found it a chore to read and didn't like it at all. Again, by your definition, this means it's not a story because it didn't work for me. And yes, I agree with the sentiment on here that you don't read much.

[Boycott Bioware]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Qistina wrote...

What unique about Star Wars narrative is the main character is not the center of the universe, the story is about the universe. Even in the movie, we cannot say who is the hero and who is the villain, because they are not the main focus, the main focus is the story.

DA despite it is claimed to be the story about Thedas, but it is not so, because the main character is a hero, there are too much of heroism element being put into the main character, such as...The Warden who unite the land against the Blight, everything is "the Warden did it" and in DA2 "Hawke who defeat the Qunari" and everything is about "Hawke did it", the difference between the two is Hawke is a failed hero

So, if DA:I following the same manner, that is heroism of the main character, the story will cliche like DA:O, or worse broken like DA2

Hero.


Villain.


Not that hard. Whoever has the red stick of death and dresses like a larp run by goths is probably a baddie.

No, Luke is not a hero, he's a support hero, the whole story is about Anakin, the real villain is Darth Sidious/Palpatine....but the story is unique...Anakin join the Dark Side becoming a villain himself, Luke appear a hero like but he actually not, Anakin who is the hero

Anakin who balanced the Force, the prophecy is about him...from episode 1 to 6...the whole story is "there is a prophecy of a boy who will bring balance to the Force", that boy is Anakin

Edit : Darth Vader Is similar like Revan, he'she actually the villain, but lost his/her memory....in the end he's neither a hero or villain

Modifié par Qistina, 23 novembre 2013 - 07:30 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Star Wars story is complex like that, and that is what i like about Star Wars...the hero or villain are never clear, you may assume anyone as the hero or villain, but when look at the core story who know who is the real hero and real villain...

The villains in Star Wars are few...Dooku, Darth Maul and Palpatine...their role only on and off...the story focused on what happen during the time, not what they are doing...we being shifted to Qui Gon Jin, Obiwan, Yoda, Luke..the war, the droids, politics....while the real hero is Anakin...the whole story is about him

As for Revan, should he/she not being trapped, and not lost his/her memory, the whole KotOR will turn out differently, because he/she is the Dark Lord of the Sith. But the player don't know that, i mean don't even configure "what if Revan saved from Bastila strike team?"...we think we being the hero in KotOR while actually we are not a hero at all

The new identity of Revan is actually us, the player...that what make it unique

[J4N3_M3]

Revan is one of my favorite characters in the Star Wars universe, and while I - personally - have a big problem of canon revan being lightside male marrying bastila - I certainly enjoyed his story throughout KOTOR and later on in parts in TOR and in the novels.

And I agree that Anakin did fullfill the prophecy, and bring balance to the Force. The real villain was Darth Sidious. I must disagree on Anakin being the real hero of the story. Him being the hero would imply that he had planned on going to the Dark Side from the beginning which he hadn't. I do see Luke and the rebel alliance as the true heros. They fought to destroy the Empire at high cost, e.g. Alderaan.

[SgtSteel91]

To me, Anakin is a fallen hero who redeems himself with the help of Luke.

On topic, I have no problem with the 'Save the World' storytelling. Guess I haven't seen enough of them to be bored with.

[Ieldra]

@David:
Taken from Wikipedia, which took it from the Oxford English Dictionary:

"A narrative (or story) is any account of connected events, presented to a reader or listener in a sequence of written or spoken words, or in a sequence of (moving) pictures."

By that definition, neither conflict nor extraordinary events or people are required. Case closed. If anyone contests this definition, they'd better give a good reason why they think they know better than the Oxford English Dictionary, which I'm sure has had its entries debated in much more depth than we could ever hope to achieve here. Why isn't the definition narrower? I don't know the minds of the people who wrote it, but as I see it, definitions of everyday terms have to be descriptive, and any further condition placed in the definition would've excluded things commonly regarded as stories.

That most of us here prefer stories with conflict and exceptional events might be true, but it is beside the point. I find The Sims excessively boring, still millions of other people don't. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 novembre 2013 - 08:18 .