197 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

erezike wrote...

This thread is a continuation to my thread which was closed a few hours earlier before running its course.
http://social.biowar.../index/17596373

The debate here what was shepard velocity when he/she entered planet alchera atmosphere after the normandy sr1 was destroyed.

My claim is that shepard speed was low enough in order to enable shepard body armor to survive the planet entry. 
as evidence i provide shepard armor parts which survived the landing.

Please state your thoughts on the subject in a mature and constructive manner.

The problem is even if Shepard's decent is not at meteorite-levels of speed, it is still more than adequate to render Shepard's body into gooey bits upon impact.

Shepard's armor, furthermore, was clearly ruptured.  You see air escaping from several holes after the explosion.  And Miranda's journals on Lazarus Staytion outright says that Shepard's tissues were exposed to vaccuum, and was a contributing factor to why bringing Shep back was so difficult.

I also personally doubt that even if the armor was intact, it would have been strong enough, even if augmented to resist biotic attacks, that it could protect Shepard from slamming into a planet at terminal velocity. 

[tanisha__unknown]

Your argument does not make a lot of sense evidencewise. You claim that the fact that Shepard's armor parts survived proves his/her speed was low enough so they don't melt.

This is only correct if the writers got the physics right. The whole debate whether Shepard's armor could resist entering the atmosphere is based on the assumption that the authors didn't get the physics right. So what you are saying is basically that they got the physics right because the armor wouldn't exist if they didn't. This appears circular to me.


the math has already been done here. Which by the way was posted in the other thread.

http://social.biowar...31/blog/240451/

Final speed is about 250 km/h. I am too tired to calculate exactly at what height this will be, but for the rest look here

http://www.faa.gov/o... from Space.pdf

That's for the heating rate.
The formula is
heating rate: p
velocity: v=83 m/s
air density: rho=1 kg/m^3
radius of the nose, llet's assume shepard puts one square meter at risk, furthermore that he is approximately round, so that is: r=0.56 m.

Now we enter into the formula:

p=1.83e-4*v^3*sqrt(rho/r)

And we get a heating rate of 140 W/m^2.

Let's say Shepard's fall lasts 30 minutes. That's 1800 seconds. Human skin is 2 m^2.

So the thermal energy that has to be dissipated is 140 W/m^2*2m^2*1800 s=504 kJ.

Shepard's body weighs probably 100 kg with armor. Let's assume it has the same heat capacity as water, since that's what man largely consists of.

The increase in temperature is given by the following formula:

E=m*c*Delta T <=> Delta T =E/(m*c)
Delta T= 504 kJ/(100 kg *4kJ)*kg*K
=1.1 K

Hmm, that doesn't seem right. Anyway. If I didn't make a mistake, Shepard's body would heat up by 1.1 K. Which means you would be right.

Still the fact remains if you hit solid ground at 250 km/h, you are going to be a piece of garbage. Or rather a lot of pieces. And getting spaced is not healthy for the brain. Neither is methane.

[rashie]

Reopening a locked thread is usually not something you do if you wish to avoid the ban hammer on most forums, but i dunno how that works here.

[billy the squid]

 

[Iakus]

Navasha wrote...

Well, I didn't see your last thread, but re-entry speed isn't the issue really. When you hear of things burning up in the atmosphere it is because their re-entry speed was based on their initial velocity (usually orbital speeds) which is approx. 17,000 mph. At that speed things burn up. If the Normandy was not actually orbiting the planet, just drifting along when Shepard was expelled into space, then we can easily assume that he simply "fell" to the planet using the planets gravity.

In which case you simply only need to know the terminal velocity. To know this though, you would have to know the strength of the gravity of the planet (how massive it is). You also need to know the atmospheric density. Also was Shepard conscious during the descent or passed out? That will determine what sort of aerodynamic profile he/she might have had.

On Earth, the terminal velocity of a human being in a random posture is about 120 mph. It doesn't matter if you fall from 1 mile up or 50. The terminal velocity at the planets surface (the point of impact obviously) will be the same. approx. 120 mph.

Look up Felix Baumgartners skydive from 23 miles up.

Alchera statistics:





Orbital Distance
9.5 AU

Orbital Period
29.4 Earth Years

Keplerian Ratio
0.992

Radius
9,229 km

Day Length
59.2 Earth Hours

Atm. Pressure
0.83 atm

Surface Temp
−22 °C

Surface Gravity
0.85 g

Mass
1.767 Earth Masses

Satellites
3

[Rasofe]

rashie wrote...

Reopening a locked thread is usually not something you do if you wish to avoid the ban hammer on most forums, but i dunno how that works here.

It's spam. But then again, so is using gifs and images instead of words... I think.

[Rotward]

He entered the atmosphere so fast that he tore into an alternate universe where thermal clips had replaced weapons that overheat, the biotic ability lift was renamed pull, and reapers were merely a theory.

Rasofe wrote...

rashie wrote...

Reopening a locked thread is usually not something you do if you wish to avoid the ban hammer on most forums, but i dunno how that works here.

It's spam. But then again, so is using gifs and images instead of words... I think.

It's against the rules to use gifs/images instead of words, but I don't think it's under 'spam'. You're allowed to use gifs as long as it's a suppliment and not a substitute. Mods seem to overlook gifs/pictures that have words already in them, but that may just be lax enforcement of the general rule. 

Modifié par Rotward, 22 novembre 2013 - 10:37 .

[Reorte]

Aw, I missed a Shepard going splat thread and a David getting Davidy one at the same time. That makes me sad.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
I also personally doubt that even if the armor was intact, it would have been strong enough, even if augmented to resist biotic attacks, that it could protect Shepard from slamming into a planet at terminal velocity. 

You're assuming that the suit's kinetic barriers were non-functional, right?

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 novembre 2013 - 10:50 .

[Rasofe]

It's an Onyx model. I don't think the shields are very strong on that one.
Hell, they're still not very strong in the legit N7 version.

[themikefest]

Steelcan wrote...

ohhhhh David

That scene from the movie Warriors(1979) was excellent. That guy was creepy.

On topic
The one thing I know is Jacob told me that I was nothing but meat and tubes.

[Nerevar-as]

themikefest wrote...

That scene from the movie Warriors(1979) was excellent. That guy was creepy.

On topic
The one thing I know is Jacob told me that I was nothing but meat and tubes.

Obviously the brain was intact enough so that memories stayed. They should build ships with whatever the helmet was made of.

[Rasofe]

I heard Jacob tell me I might have extra bits and peices, so that's a plus. I think.

[themikefest]

Nerevar-as wrote...

themikefest wrote...

That scene from the movie Warriors(1979) was excellent. That guy was creepy.

On topic
The one thing I know is Jacob told me that I was nothing but meat and tubes.

Obviously the brain was intact enough so that memories stayed. They should build ships with whatever the helmet was made of.

So true. I wonder if it be strong enough against a reaper beam

[David7204]

Funny you say that.

Pound for pound, it's actually not too unlikely that bone and the helmet's materials are stronger than ship armor.

Modifié par David7204, 22 novembre 2013 - 11:09 .

[Rasofe]

You're saying they should make ships out of human skulls?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Now that I think about it, was Lazarus supposed to foreshadow that the reaper goop actually does retain memories?

[Rasofe]

Doubtful. I think it was supposed to foreshadow the breath scene.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
I also personally doubt that even if the armor was intact, it would have been strong enough, even if augmented to resist biotic attacks, that it could protect Shepard from slamming into a planet at terminal velocity. 

You're assuming that the suit's kinetic barriers were non-functional, right?

I'm assuming that such an impact is far beyond the scope of what kinetic barriers are designed to protect against.

Falls still appear to be dangerous to anyone who's not a powerful (and conscious) biotic in any case.

[Argentoid]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Now that I think about it, was Lazarus supposed to foreshadow that the reaper goop actually does retain memories?

Wow. I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Now that I think about it, was Lazarus supposed to foreshadow that the reaper goop actually does retain memories?

I think it's supposed to forshadow that the writers don't feel bound to adhere to any scientific lore besides Clarke's Third Law.

[AlexMBrennan]

My claim is that shepard speed was low enough in order to enable shepard body armor to survive the planet entry.
as evidence i provide shepard armor parts which survived the landing.

If this was real life you'd be correct, but it isn't so there is an alternative explanation: Bioware writers are not physicists, and just wrote stuff that seemed artsy while hoping that their audience wouldn't bother to think.

The question is not whether stuff happened in the story but whether this is at all consistent with the established laws of the universe.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:06 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

OP and thread reported for spam.

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

I very highly doubt that.