197 réponses à ce sujet

[Rasofe]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Aw, and we were all having fun here.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Aw, and we were all having fun here.

Well, David showed up. I suppose that's something.

[Rasofe]

Don't make this about David. I haven't heard his response to my inquiry whether or not spaceships should be made out of human skull.
The fun was in just shooting out physics defiant explanations, ideas or other stuff without taking the whole issue too seriously.

Modifié par Rasofe, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:20 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

Don't make this about David. I haven't heard his response to my inquiry whether or not spaceships should be made out of human skull.
The fun was in just shooting out physics defiant explanations, ideas or other stuff without taking the whole issue too seriously.

I'm not making this about him. Hell, I'm advocating this thread get shut down for things that have nothing to do with him. I'm just saying he happened to post here.

[billy the squid]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

Pffffffffffffffffffffttttttttt. Are you drinking the same cool aid as Jessica Merizan when she talked about intelligent debate on the BSN?

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:23 .

[dreamgazer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

I very highly doubt that.

The last time this ME2-related topic was discussed, no less than three alternate theories about what happened sprung up.  I seriously doubt another "intelligent debate" about this old-hat topic will sort anything out, especially when battling against resolute headcanon. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

billy the squid wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

Pffffffffffffffffffffttttttttt. Are you drinking the same cool aid as Jessica Merizan when she talked about intelligent debate on the BSN?

Hmph. The correct term is 'Kool-Aid' 

[Iakus]

billy the squid wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

Pffffffffffffffffffffttttttttt. Are you drinking the same cool aid as Jessica Merizan when she talked about intelligent debate on the BSN?

Well, I'm not saying the intelligent debate would be with you

Modifié par iakus, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:47 .

[Rasofe]

Who is Jessica Merizan?
I know I could search but I don't want to be a stalker.

Modifié par Rasofe, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:28 .

[dreamgazer]

Rasofe wrote...

Who is Jessica Merizan?

BSN's (primary now, I guess?) community manager.

[billy the squid]

iakus wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

Pffffffffffffffffffffttttttttt. Are you drinking the same cool aid as Jessica Merizan when she talked about intelligent debate on the BSN?

Well, I'm not saying the intelligent debate would be with you

By the look of it, if you thought you were going to get an intelligent debate out of the OP then it wouldn't be with you. 

[Rasofe]

Well, Erezike seems like a nice guy for someone who can beat ME2 in 20 hours of game time with DLC.
Maybe the mattock is magical in some way.

[rashie]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

There is no such thing as an intelligent debate on BSN.

[Iakus]

billy the squid wrote...

By the look of it, if you thought you were going to get an intelligent debate out of the OP then it wouldn't be with you. 

I have had intelligent debates with him in teh past.

Unfortunately in this thread (and the last) some folk seem determined to derail it.

[Rasofe]

rashie wrote...

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

There is no such thing as an intelligent debate on BSN.

That said, is there such a thing as intelligent debate? I've always believed that one of the necessary conditions for intelligence is learning. I don't think I've ever seen a debate which ended with the losing side learning anything about the issue.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

By the look of it, if you thought you were going to get an intelligent debate out of the OP then it wouldn't be with you. 

I have had intelligent debates with him in teh past.

Unfortunately in this thread (and the last) some folk seem determined to derail it.

It stopped being intelligent debate around the time he started declaring headcanon as objective fact, declaring that in-game events were not real (the Normandy Crash Site as being a fake for example), and making an indirect slight on me being an Officer in the military. 

[Rasofe]

I disagree. I think this particular topic has never been an intelligent debate.

Modifié par Rasofe, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:52 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

I disagree. I think this particular topic has never been an intelligent debate.

Well, there really shouldn't be much of a debate to begin with on this issue.

The issue to me shows that this was a pretty bad idea for a death for Shepard, especially since they planned on resurrecting him. And it's hand-waived pretty hard here. I'm not against the idea for his death in ME2, nor do I really oppose it here that much, but it really was a goof on the writers part here.

As I said, I think a much more plausible idea for his death would be to have him die from asphyxiation in space and having his body be frozen in space. Hell, take away the planet Alchera and it would actually be alright. Shepard's body is left completely intact, and completely preserved. It's much better than having to completely rebuild him from scratch as they did thus far in ME2.

[Rasofe]

It's really not that much of a deal breaker... certainly not enough for this much drama.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

It's really not that much of a deal breaker... certainly not enough for this much drama.

Well, what are you willing to hand-waive for the sake of the story? As I said last time, different people have different thresholds of disbelief. Yours appears to be much higher than anybody elses'. 

Personally, I think that before a story can come into being, it must follow the established rules and lore of the universe that have been set before it, unless it has a very, very good reason and explanation and acknowledgement within the universe for why something is breaking the lore and rules of the setting.

To me, this precludes the story. If the story doesn't follow the lore, in my opinion, that precludes it from being enjoyable or good.

Remember my words about the 'Hurt Locker'? 

Just about every person who saw it thought it was awesome. The only people who didn't like it were military personnel, who found it completely unbelievable and ridiculous for a movie supposedly meant to be 'realistic' and 'clear with its image in what Soldiers do.'

[Ryzaki]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

By the look of it, if you thought you were going to get an intelligent debate out of the OP then it wouldn't be with you. 

I have had intelligent debates with him in teh past.

Unfortunately in this thread (and the last) some folk seem determined to derail it.

It stopped being intelligent debate around the time he started declaring headcanon as objective fact, declaring that in-game events were not real (the Normandy Crash Site as being a fake for example), and making an indirect slight on me being an Officer in the military. 

wait what?

Man can't people accept that Shep's ressurection was an asspull of the highest order?

[Rotward]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

OP and thread reported for spam.

Why?  If people would stop flooding the thread with spam gifs and nonsense, this could be an intelligent debate.

Conceptually,  yes, it could be an interesting debate. In reality, though, this thread is a repost of a closed thread. That's just asking for trouble. It's also full of gifs and so forth, whether it needed to be or not. Thus, the thread is now spam. 

[Rasofe]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

It's really not that much of a deal breaker... certainly not enough for this much drama.

Well, what are you willing to hand-waive for the sake of the story? As I said last time, different people have different thresholds of disbelief. Yours appears to be much higher than anybody elses'. 

Personally, I think that before a story can come into being, it must follow the established rules and lore of the universe that have been set before it, unless it has a very, very good reason and explanation and acknowledgement within the universe for why something is breaking the lore and rules of the setting.

To me, this precludes the story. If the story doesn't follow the lore, in my opinion, that precludes it from being enjoyable or good.

Remember my words about the 'Hurt Locker'? 

Just about every person who saw it thought it was awesome. The only people who didn't like it were military personnel, who found it completely unbelievable and ridiculous for a movie supposedly meant to be 'realistic' and 'clear with its image in what Soldiers do.'

First, "anybody" is a little drastic. I've never seen Hurt Locker myself, but I have seen Pulp Fiction, a film whose very premise is contrived stories and what was once considered the worst kind of writing.
The reason being that my idea of a good story is largely in whether the story is thematic or not, and then whether that theme feels relevant or not. The first part being objectively determinable, and the second being subjective. But neither of these fall under the auspices of what's going on with the setting or how consistent the rules are.

It's really not so much about suspension of disbelief as it is about caring about what I specifically feel is important: anything related to the theme, such as central conflicts and character development. One of my greatest regrets is that there are basically no games that I know of in fantasy settings that focus on that instead of establishing the world. And I really, really don't believe that fantasy, hard sci fi or anything else has preference over the others.

In the long run, this is hardly the IP for which I'm the most passionate. But come on guys. If you're gonna look for problems in the story, look for something like why Miranda decided that TIM was wrong about the Collector Base. Shepard being brought to back by penmanship is just not a crime.

Edit: FORGET THAT PENULTIMATE PART. I just found out about the Miranda fanbase schism. I want nothing to do with it. If people can turn an intelligent discussion of character into THAT then there's simply no hope for talking about anything at all.

Modifié par Rasofe, 23 novembre 2013 - 02:45 .

[Ravensword]

Ryzaki wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

By the look of it, if you thought you were going to get an intelligent debate out of the OP then it wouldn't be with you. 

I have had intelligent debates with him in teh past.

Unfortunately in this thread (and the last) some folk seem determined to derail it.

It stopped being intelligent debate around the time he started declaring headcanon as objective fact, declaring that in-game events were not real (the Normandy Crash Site as being a fake for example), and making an indirect slight on me being an Officer in the military. 

wait what?

Man can't people accept that Shep's ressurection was an asspull of the highest order?

What? And ruin a person's perception of ME's writing being good and still within standing of hard sci-fi? Surely you jest, my dear!

[Erez Kristal]

dreamgazer wrote...

Unanswerable without extensive headcanon and avoiding known silence.  Always has been, always will be.

That said, if you've landed on theories answers that satisfy your ME needs, knock yourself out!

if its unanswerable then people can can pretty much headcannon the different variables however they see fit. i do wonder on how do people insist shepard was falling into the planet at very high seeds with out any facts to back that claim. 
we lack of knowledge of what was shepard initial speed when beginning to decend into alchera we can also use the final results of his/her corpse. we know the corpse was still salvageable.

Br3ad wrote...

Some of us have actually seen the math for this. It's not possible. Pointless thread is pointless.

i didnt mean to offend you by not understanding the math the first time, things would be much simpler if you just tried to explain it to and not jumped up on my throat. i am not unreasonable.

Navasha wrote...

Well, I didn't see your last thread, but re-entry speed isn't the issue really. When you hear of things burning up in the atmosphere it is because their re-entry speed was based on their initial velocity (usually orbital speeds) which is approx. 17,000 mph. At that speed things burn up. If the Normandy was not actually orbiting the planet, just drifting along when Shepard was expelled into space, then we can easily assume that he simply "fell" to the planet using the planets gravity. 

In which case you simply only need to know the terminal velocity. To know this though, you would have to know the strength of the gravity of the planet (how massive it is). You also need to know the atmospheric density. Also was Shepard conscious during the descent or passed out? That will determine what sort of aerodynamic profile he/she might have had. 

On Earth, the terminal velocity of a human being in a random posture is about 120 mph. It doesn't matter if you fall from 1 mile up or 50. The terminal velocity at the planets surface (the point of impact obviously) will be the same. approx. 120 mph. 

Look up Felix Baumgartners skydive from 23 miles up.

thanks. this is the point i tried to get across in my last thread. its been discussed that due to alchera lower gravity but also lower athmosphere terminal velocity of alchera would end up similar to earth. add to that shepard armor and potential ani biotic mass effect fields upgrades. and shepard body could end up shattered and broken but not a mush like some would believe.  it should still be salvageable. 

iakus wrote...


The problem is even if Shepard's decent is not at meteorite-levels of speed, it is still more than adequate to render Shepard's body into gooey bits upon impact.

Shepard's armor, furthermore, was clearly ruptured.  You see air escaping from several holes after the explosion.  And Miranda's journals on Lazarus Staytion outright says that Shepard's tissues were exposed to vaccuum, and was a contributing factor to why bringing Shep back was so difficult.

I also personally doubt that even if the armor was intact, it would have been strong enough, even if augmented to resist biotic attacks, that it could protect Shepard from slamming into a planet at terminal velocity. 

because of the limits of terminal velocity on planets with athmosphere shepard impact speed would limited to a speed unable to render shepard into human goo, it would be enough to break everybone on shepard body. but the body would still be salvageable. 

Every advance body armor planned for hazerdous planets battle has the ability to seal itself after a short while. it is very likely and expected that shepard suit sealed itself after begun escaping.  there could have been some exposure to vaccum just before shepard suite managed to seal itself. it is likely that none of the organs(like brain) were damaged enough to prevent lazarus resseruction. 

even without armor and special freefall safety measures. shepard should not turn into goo when hitting the ground at terminal velocity.  just look on real life cases.

Modifié par erezike, 23 novembre 2013 - 08:36 .