166 réponses à ce sujet

[x-aizen-x]

Aaleel wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Maybe Orsino was just an insane a**hole the whole time?

Not really. As a pro-mage Orsino breaks down due the deaths of his friend. He's still responsible for Quentin, but he's not an a@@hole or insane. I don't know the reason of having two different versions though. 
As for the OP, I agree. It was incredibly disappointing to face both Orsino and Meredith regardless of your choice.

What would really be stupid, was if he had control over himself wHILE he was in his JABBA DA HUT FORM.

Bioware made him became an harvester for the purpose of transforming him in a monster with no control. There woudn't have been reason for Orsino to attack a pro-mage Hawke otherwise. The same goes for Meredith and RL in the case of a pro-templar Hawke.

Why not?  Pretty much every other mage that used any type of blood magic in the game lost their mind.  Attacked their family, allies, killed their wife, etc.  Given the groundwork they laid out in the game he could have attacked Hawke using blood magic in any way.

You are absolutely correct. But the thing is we were wining. Orsino choose to transform into an uncontrollable fat arse for what reason? yes every mage did do that. But if go back to that scene you will see he choose to do that. And the problem is that he did not have to.

[durasteel]

Aaleel wrote...
Why not?  Pretty much every other mage that used any type of blood magic in the game lost their mind.  Attacked their family, allies, killed their wife, etc.  Given the groundwork they laid out in the game he could have attacked Hawke using blood magic in any way.

Jowan was a sucker and got a raw deal from trusting Logain (big suprise) but was, basicly, a level headed blood mage.

Modifié par durasteel, 23 novembre 2013 - 01:41 .

[Xerxes52]

Yeah, being forced to fight both Orsino and Meredith regardless of your faction choice was disappointing.

Aaleel wrote...

Can't argue.  Orsino spends forever talking about how they may have a chance with the Champion at their side.  You join him and beat back the templars into retreat, so obviously the next action was to lose all hope, resort to blood magic and go completely out his mind <_<

This. When it happened on my first pro-mage run I thought I made a mistake (maybe missed a quest or something) or ran into a glitch, but nope.

[x-aizen-x]

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were so close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

[Vit246]

Aaleel wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Maybe Orsino was just an insane a**hole the whole time?

Not really. As a pro-mage Orsino breaks down due the deaths of his friend. He's still responsible for Quentin, but he's not an a@@hole or insane. I don't know the reason of having two different versions though. 
As for the OP, I agree. It was incredibly disappointing to face both Orsino and Meredith regardless of your choice.

What would really be stupid, was if he had control over himself wHILE he was in his JABBA DA HUT FORM.

Bioware made him became an harvester for the purpose of transforming him in a monster with no control. There woudn't have been reason for Orsino to attack a pro-mage Hawke otherwise. The same goes for Meredith and RL in the case of a pro-templar Hawke.

Why not?  Pretty much every other mage that used any type of blood magic in the game lost their mind.  Attacked their family, allies, killed their wife, etc.  Given the groundwork they laid out in the game he could have attacked Hawke using blood magic in any way.

Kirkwall primarily drove most mages insane, not blood magic. Blood magic is mostly just a symptom of the disease that is Kirkwall.

Modifié par Vit246, 23 novembre 2013 - 01:42 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

There was something strangely sexy about Orsino.

[Aaleel]

durasteel wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
Why not?  Pretty much every other mage that used any type of blood magic in the game lost their mind.  Attacked their family, allies, killed their wife, etc.  Given the groundwork they laid out in the game he could have attacked Hawke using blood magic in any way.

Jowan was a sucker and got a raw deal from trusting Logain (big suprise) but was, basicly, a level headed blood mage.

Oh no, they were fine in DA:O.  Blood magic was a tool.  Jowan the rogue mages in the Broken Cirlce quest.  It was in DA:2 that all of a sudden anyone who used it somehow lost their mind.

[Aaleel]

Vit246 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Maybe Orsino was just an insane a**hole the whole time?

Not really. As a pro-mage Orsino breaks down due the deaths of his friend. He's still responsible for Quentin, but he's not an a@@hole or insane. I don't know the reason of having two different versions though. 
As for the OP, I agree. It was incredibly disappointing to face both Orsino and Meredith regardless of your choice.

What would really be stupid, was if he had control over himself wHILE he was in his JABBA DA HUT FORM.

Bioware made him became an harvester for the purpose of transforming him in a monster with no control. There woudn't have been reason for Orsino to attack a pro-mage Hawke otherwise. The same goes for Meredith and RL in the case of a pro-templar Hawke.

Why not?  Pretty much every other mage that used any type of blood magic in the game lost their mind.  Attacked their family, allies, killed their wife, etc.  Given the groundwork they laid out in the game he could have attacked Hawke using blood magic in any way.

Kirkwall primarily drove most mages insane, not blood magic. Blood magic is mostly just a symptom of the disease that is Kirkwall.

I read the codex about the vil being torn their and non mages having contact with demons.  But the way the game portrayed it was that pretty much every mage turned to blood magic and once they did they lost their minds.  You shouldn't have to read a random group of codexes to get this information. 

[MrMrPendragon]

I don't know. I like Orsino's loot - his staff: The Staff of Violation.

How awesome is that staff's name?!

[x-aizen-x]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

I don't know. I like Orsino's loot - his staff: The Staff of Violation.

How awesome is that staff's name?!

What exactly did the staff violate?

[Knight of Dane]

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were so close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

Posting a thread every hour about stuff you dislike does not invite intellectual debate but flame wars. Half the time you bash people who are opposed to you.

Not especially endearing.
But now that's going further off topic. Baj

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 23 novembre 2013 - 01:57 .

[Afro_Explosion]

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

There nothing wrong with it but some of them seem strangely vindictive

[MrMrPendragon]

x-aizen-x wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

I don't know. I like Orsino's loot - his staff: The Staff of Violation.

How awesome is that staff's name?!

What exactly did the staff violate?

Many many innocent mages/templars

But seriously though, according to the codex, it belonged to the first "First enchanter" in Kirkwall. She died holding a demon inside herself while the templars killed her. I just had a good chuckle at the name, because my immature side got the better of me that one time.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 23 novembre 2013 - 02:01 .

[x-aizen-x]

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

There nothing wrong with it but some of them seem strangely vindictive

Ok ill try to make them to you satisfaction from now on.

[Afro_Explosion]

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

There nothing wrong with it but some of them seem strangely vindictive

Ok ill try to make them to you satisfaction from now on.

Thank you sir that would be wonderful.

Modifié par mx_keep13, 23 novembre 2013 - 02:11 .

[StarLitStranger]

 I wish things would move past the Templar/Mage struggle but I doubt that will happen considering the subject matter of inquisition. At the same time I really like the idea of more spirits and abominations. Blood mages are interesting and these new Red Templars look awesome.

I think being in Orlasis is going to be interesting and I am glad that the series is sticking to a timeline and exploring those places.

I would like to see different enemies and I am bored with the circle. It needs more things like the Lady of the Forrest, The Architect, and unknowns. That is a possibility with the fade opening up.

I think that whenever you are dealing with blood magic and demons you will probably be stabbed in the back.

Modifié par StarLitStranger, 23 novembre 2013 - 02:20 .

[Hugebull]

Whos to say that Orsino was still himself? He was dealing with demons and blood magic, he could have been taken over by a demon in act 2 for all we know.

I can see the reason they did what they did, I'm not a fan of it. But I can see why.

I think they realised that DA2 wouldnt be the real successor of DA:O. So they formed the ending so you wouldnt really need to replay it for the future DA3. Since in core the game ends the same way, no matter what. Which I can force myself to accept, since Hawkes story is not about saving the world. He became the champion, but lacked the power to change or stop anything.

We all know DA2 was rushed, but we can only accept that now. And it was also made in a completely different way than DA:O.

But in a perfect world Meredith wouldnt have had the sword at all, and Orsino wouldnt have turned if you sided with him.

Meredith should have been the avatar of order over freedom, and Orsino should have been freedom over order.

But as I said, the way they did it in the end is easier to build upon. When you think about the book "Asunder" and the book "The Masked Empire" that is coming out in april next year.

So all in all, i can accept the way things happend. Even though I can only play Dragon Age 2 with the mod that gives enemies less health, so i dont have to suffer the horrible combat the game has. But thats about personal opinion.

And also, even though we love decisions that matter. If they make the outcome of those decisions and choices too big, they would be impossible to continue building on, some sides has to give in and compromise.

[x-aizen-x]

Knight of Dane wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were so close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

Posting a thread every hour about stuff you dislike does not invite intellectual debate but flame wars. Half the time you bash people who are opposed to you.

Not especially endearing.
But now that's going further off topic. Baj

That's not my fault. if you ever read my old threads you will se that I tried. I tried to make a thread were people can go and post ideas about new enemy type's for DAI. People called me all kind of names, and acted like I was ****ing adolf hitler. So guess what happens It gets closed. The problem seems to be that people on here have a addiction to arguments.

[snackrat]

You have to fight Meredith either way because she is so paranoid. They made Orsino the ****** Ex Machina because they wanted the same number of bossfights.

What really annoys me is Orsino using blood magic at all... saying "you drove me to do this!" He is responsible for his own choices. Templars don't want mages using blood magic ever... using them under duress or threat of death included. Orsino has proven himself weak after all. A mystery how he became First Enchanter, I suppose his compliance and diplomacy got him there.

Bethany, and the mages who beg for mercy, are much better examples as even in the face of death they do not take it. Why can't more mages be like that...?

[fiveforchaos]

Aaleel wrote...

durasteel wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
Why not?  Pretty much every other mage that used any type of blood magic in the game lost their mind.  Attacked their family, allies, killed their wife, etc.  Given the groundwork they laid out in the game he could have attacked Hawke using blood magic in any way.

Jowan was a sucker and got a raw deal from trusting Logain (big suprise) but was, basicly, a level headed blood mage.

Oh no, they were fine in DA:O.  Blood magic was a tool.  Jowan the rogue mages in the Broken Cirlce quest.  It was in DA:2 that all of a sudden anyone who used it somehow lost their mind.

There were plenty of crazy Blood Mages in DA:O too, those in the circle tower who resorted to blood magic certainly didn't pause for very long before trying to rip you to shreds. Just because Blood Magic's a tool, doesn't mean it's a safe one, particularly in Kirkwall, a city practically built over a hellmouth. Blood Magic puts a lot of power very quickly into what may be unskilled and incompetant hands, and since it's so hard to learn outside of some very obscure books, many would be Blood Mages learn it from demons, making them extremly vulnerable to demonic influence. 

[Knight of Dane]

x-aizen-x wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Do you get paid for all these threads

OOOOO LMFAO. we were so close SO close to just having a normal thread were the OP was simply the main discussion. But by GOD I was right. In every thread there just has to be that one guy.

well every couple hours you just post about things you dont like

Did not know there was something wrong with that. And other people do it to. Im just a big DA fan sorry.

Posting a thread every hour about stuff you dislike does not invite intellectual debate but flame wars. Half the time you bash people who are opposed to you.

Not especially endearing.
But now that's going further off topic. Baj

That's not my fault. if you ever read my old threads you will se that I tried. I tried to make a thread were people can go and post ideas about new enemy type's for DAI. People called me all kind of names, and acted like I was ****ing adolf hitler. So guess what happens It gets closed. The problem seems to be that people on here have a addiction to arguments.

My suggestion would be to write fewer, more thought out threads.

I try not to judge people based on a post, but the way you write is often with all caps words, and a lot smileys which comes off as either childish, sarcastic or obnoxious.

Try to reread your topics before you post and make sure you actually have an argument that invite for debate and not just random flaming and watch the structure of your paragraphs.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If Meredith can be insane, Orsino can be insane too. I think the bigger problem with the Orision boss fight is more that the gameplay and narrative don't reinforce the his reason for turning to blood magic. If he succumbed to despair, fine, but the cutscene game immediately after a single easy encounter with the templars. Maybe if there had been successive waves, each showing how more and more mages are falling then it would feel like he had more a reason to give up.

[Vit246]

Karsciyin wrote...

You have to fight Meredith either way because she is so paranoid. They made Orsino the ****** Ex Machina because they wanted the same number of bossfights.

What really annoys me is Orsino using blood magic at all... saying "you drove me to do this!" He is responsible for his own choices. Templars don't want mages using blood magic ever... using them under duress or threat of death included. Orsino has proven himself weak after all. A mystery how he became First Enchanter, I suppose his compliance and diplomacy got him there.

Bethany, and the mages who beg for mercy, are much better examples as even in the face of death they do not take it. Why can't more mages be like that...?

Blood magic is the only known magic that Templars either don't know how to nullify or have extreme difficulty in doing do. Its a life-saver in comparison to the conventional magics sanctioned by the Templars who would know how to nullify. Its not weak to resort to the only weapon that you know your enemies cannot nullify.

If Templars don't want mages to use blood magic under duress or threat of death, perhaps they should not be putting them under said duress or threat of death in the first place. 

The mage is fighting for his life. He owes absolutely nothing to the Templars to make it easy for them to kill him. Why should he? One cannot entrap a mage into using blood magic and then cite said blood magic as the reason why he has to die.

Modifié par Vit246, 23 novembre 2013 - 04:37 .

[rwaporter]

I think that the scene with Orsino was a victim of budget cuts and rushed production. It would have made much more sense if during the cut-scene Templars suddenly flooded across the bridge and surrounded him, or if he saw some young mage that you had seen him interacting with earlier dead or dying and Orsino called his/her name before he fell into despair and became a harvester. In all likelihood something like this would have been implemented if they had more time to proof read the plot, and a larger budget to fix it.

[snackrat]

Vit246 wrote...

Karsciyin wrote...

You have to fight Meredith either way because she is so paranoid. They made Orsino the ****** Ex Machina because they wanted the same number of bossfights.

What really annoys me is Orsino using blood magic at all... saying "you drove me to do this!" He is responsible for his own choices. Templars don't want mages using blood magic ever... using them under duress or threat of death included. Orsino has proven himself weak after all. A mystery how he became First Enchanter, I suppose his compliance and diplomacy got him there.

Bethany, and the mages who beg for mercy, are much better examples as even in the face of death they do not take it. Why can't more mages be like that...?

Blood magic is the only known magic that Templars either don't know how to nullify or have extreme difficulty in doing do. Its a life-saver in comparison to the conventional magics sanctioned by the Templars who would know how to nullify. Its not weak to resort to the only weapon that you know your enemies cannot nullify.

If Templars don't want mages to use blood magic under duress or threat of death, perhaps they should not be putting them under said duress or threat of death in the first place. 

The mage is fighting for his life. He owes absolutely nothing to the Templars to make it easy for them to kill him. Why should he? One cannot entrap a mage into using blood magic and then cite said blood magic as the reason why he has to die.

In most circumstances, I would agree with you. (I'm typically a mage-supporter after all.) One should not bow to one's enemy for his convenience. However, one is not 'entrapping' you into doing anything, your choices are always your own. Sinking to base levels is how wars start.

However, I believe the reasons blood magic are forbidden is what they involve: the use of an innocents blood, the mind-control of others, the summoning of spirits. Not all mages do this, but enough do. Not all nuclear missles have been fired, but it is still a cause for concern when countries start building them.
What makes mages the most dangerous is demonic possession - and the abomination slaughtering or enslaving mortals for power, amusement, avarice... before the templars can put them down. Though templars have become corrupt and power-hungry, treating mages like convicted criminals, their original pupose is protect mages for each other, and themselves, as well as protected townsfolk from mage gone awry.
DAO's posessed!Conor murdered all his castle staff, then resurrected them, and sent this undead army to murder his townsfolk too. Original Conor is HIGHLY unlikely to have done that. Intentions are irrelevant - once the demon is there, it has control.
Dealing with demons for blood magic IS exposing yourself to demonic influence. This is why it makes the templars nervous. Consider this: why would demons make deals with people they didn't think they could control? Why should they exert effort to give someone who treats them with disdain something for nothing? All blood mages seen thus are either power-hungry (eg: Uldred) or foolish (eg: Jowan). And then there are those that think they are smart enough to prevent it. Consider Merrill - without the keeper stopping it, the entirity of Thedas would have been at the mercy of a mighty corporeal demon! Yet Merrill was adamant she was in control the entire time, she knew what she was doing, her blood magic was harmless.

To bring back to topic (before this turns into another templar-vs-mage), Orsino is a very poor example of this. In the mage ending, he performs this ritual unneccessarily, for the sake of extra power the mages are winning. In the templar ending, he has killed the other students to fuel this power, thus 'saving lives' isn't exactly his goal - it's revenge. It's violence.
And if he wins? What then? Does he write his memoirs with his half-dozen hands and start an orchestral band? Or does he begat more voilence by stamping on anything or anyone who opposing him, innocents (like citizens) and mage-sympathisers (like Thrask or, more indirectly, Isabela) caught in the crosshairs of massive upheaval?

Orsino also has been an intellectual correspondent with Quentin (who zombie'd your mother), trading information regarding this ritual. Thus, even before extreme duress, Orsino has been participating in blood magic. Provable in an indirect fashion, his transformation showing likely in a direct fashion also.


Though the ending still looks foolish with Orsino suddenly turning upon Hawke, with this information I wouldn't be surprised that this were an inevitability, even without Meredith's involvement. Something would eventually push him to consider this an acceptable act. Mages like this are why the real men and women in the circle, that just want to live normally, are still kept under lock and key. (Guys stop making everyone else look bad!)