384 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

Shepard is useless dead and the Collectors may had been the only beings with any use for a dead Shepard so it makes sense for the Shadow broker to hand the body to them for a good price. Actually he didn't think even they would have use of the body. What I don't get is why couldn't Cerberus beat the price? The whole thing just seemed like an excuse to have Liara save Shepard's body from the Collectors. TIM could had easily just paid for it or got it themselves.

Since a living Shepard is more worthwhile, I see no reason why the Shadow Broker would strike a deal with him in exchange for turning over Liara. Especially a Shepard who sold Cerberus info to the Broker in ME1.

To those saying the Broker kills anyone who has seen him, that can be a set up for possible future betrayal or the deal could be struck before face-to-face confrontation. The PC that turns down the deal will go and fight the Broker and the one who accepts walks.

Also, wasn't the Crucible plans uncovered by the Alliance's archaeological team?  

Modifié par Hazegurl, 25 novembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Wayning_Star]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Shadow Broker is pretty pointless if you don't romance Liara and her actually being the broker turned out largely irrelevant.I actually prefer Arrival, which is at least briskly paced.

Ditto. LotSB really seems to be a romance DLC for Liara. 

I also really wish there was an option to betray Liara to the Broker for his help.

That would have been the only reason to do the dlc.

the broker was indoctrinated, so any 'deals' with him were/would be counter productive..heheh

The Shadow Broker was not indoctrinated. 

it worked for the collectors.. bad sign. Like the illusive man only slightly different..lol

[Rasofe]

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Siding with the Yahg would make about as much sense as siding with Captain Enyala, Captain Wasea or Vido.

Why?

Because the goodwill of the leader of the Blue Suns, the Eclipse sisters and Miranda's father could be more useful than the contribution of Miranda or Zaeed, but would they keep up their end of the bargain? I wouldn't bet on it. Apart from that, the Yahg wouldn't have found the blueprints for the crucible.

Drop it. He's just gonna hypothetically assume that if the Illusive Man found it then the Broker would too. Notwithstanding that both TIM and Liara have shown to be smarter than the Shadow Broker and Liara is an expert on Protheans, it's really just a ****** contest at this point.

[Wayning_Star]

Hazegurl wrote...

Shepard is useless dead and the Collectors may had been the only beings with any use for a dead Shepard so it makes sense for the Shadow broker to hand the body to them for a good price. Actually he didn't think even they would have use of the body. What I don't get is why couldn't Cerberus beat the price? The whole thing just seemed like an excuse to have Liara save Shepard's body from the Collectors. TIM could had easily just paid for it or got it themselves.

Since a living Shepard is more worthwhile, I see no reason why the Shadow Broker would strike a deal with him in exchange for turning over Liara. Especially a Shepard who sold Cerberus info to the Broker in ME1.

it's never actually stated in the story, but I've always figured that the collectors were directly involved with Sheps resuscitation, or at the least unknowingly provide tech for it. The catalyst amongst others needed Shepard alive, so they used the illusive man to git'er done. Or, so it would seem..

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Siding with the Yahg would make about as much sense as siding with Captain Enyala, Captain Wasea or Vido.

Why?

Because the goodwill of the leader of the Blue Suns, the Eclipse sisters and Miranda's father could be more useful than the contribution of Miranda or Zaeed, but would they keep up their end of the bargain? I wouldn't bet on it. Apart from that, the Yahg wouldn't have found the blueprints for the crucible.

Yes. It's in their interest to. It's in my interest to keep their ends of the bargain up. Granted, I'm not going to betray Miranda's sister to Eclipse mercenaries that aren't interested in more than furthering the schemes of a man who's goals at that point have no practical use for the Reaper war. Or for Vido, who's not offering to help me fight the Reapers, nor commands the ability to effectively lead.

The SB on the other hand, I believe would keep his end of the bargain. To not keep his end up is to damn the galaxy, and himself, to death. And yes, Liara mentions that the Broker indeed was researching ways to defeat the Reapers, even talking about a supposed Prothean superweapon. Where else would Liara have gotten this information from? So yes, I believe the Yahg Broker would have found the plans to the Crucible.

[Wayning_Star]

I don't think we can even 'side' with a yahg, they don't do that stuff...siding with. Using, yes, siding no..lol

[Rasofe]

"WWSCD"
- What would Shepards clone do? -
Someone secretly wants to play Shepard's clone.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...
More importantly, why would the Broker accept the deal and not just try to kill Shepard and Liara outright as he did? As for your honest opinion about what the Broker wants doesn't factor into this because that isn't what happened and the Broker made it perfectly clear that he wanted Shepard dead.

Because if he does, does he honestly believe he's going to be able to bring the galaxy together to fight the Reapers and build the Crucible? 

Where did he make it clear that he was actively trying to kill Shepard (beyond the part where Shepard charges into his office with an assault rifle aimed at him)? It's business as usual for him. If he wanted Shepard dead, he'd have tried a lot, lot harder over the course of the game, don't you think? 

P.S. After reading the further comment I have decided that this conversation is born of spite. So I'm abandoning it.
This thread was about the Citadel DLC and it's derailing because some of you want to press people's buttons.

Dismissing an argument because of my intent (and making a genetic fallacy) doesn't handle in an argument. You're saying that because I don't like Liara and would be willing to betray her to the Broker, that demerits my argument. 

[Wayning_Star]

we don't know exactly why and how those that captured the Yahg did so, the previous shadow broker could of been a tool for the collectors and/or the catalyst, maybe even a reapership or two..

The illusive man wasn't all that out going, kind of reclusive. I doubt the ego centric Yahg could resist handy reaper technology either... (pawn!)

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Siding with the Yahg would make about as much sense as siding with Captain Enyala, Captain Wasea or Vido.

Why?

Because the goodwill of the leader of the Blue Suns, the Eclipse sisters and Miranda's father could be more useful than the contribution of Miranda or Zaeed, but would they keep up their end of the bargain? I wouldn't bet on it. Apart from that, the Yahg wouldn't have found the blueprints for the crucible.

Drop it. He's just gonna hypothetically assume that if the Illusive Man found it then the Broker would too. Notwithstanding that both TIM and Liara have shown to be smarter than the Shadow Broker and Liara is an expert on Protheans, it's really just a ****** contest at this point.

I'm not assuming anything. Also, genetic fallacy. You don't like my intent, therefore my argument is false. That's not an argument.

[Wayning_Star]

hell, about everyone in the MEU are dependent upon the catalysts' technological fly trap... why is that?

[Barquiel]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Siding with the Yahg would make about as much sense as siding with Captain Enyala, Captain Wasea or Vido.

Why?

Because the goodwill of the leader of the Blue Suns, the Eclipse sisters and Miranda's father could be more useful than the contribution of Miranda or Zaeed, but would they keep up their end of the bargain? I wouldn't bet on it. Apart from that, the Yahg wouldn't have found the blueprints for the crucible.

Yes. It's in their interest to. It's in my interest to keep their ends of the bargain up. Granted, I'm not going to betray Miranda's sister to Eclipse mercenaries that aren't interested in more than furthering the schemes of a man who's goals at that point have no practical use for the Reaper war. Or for Vido, who's not offering to help me fight the Reapers, nor commands the ability to effectively lead.

The SB on the other hand, I believe would keep his end of the bargain. To not keep his end up is to damn the galaxy, and himself, to death. And yes, Liara mentions that the Broker indeed was researching ways to defeat the Reapers, even talking about a supposed Prothean superweapon. Where else would Liara have gotten this information from? So yes, I believe the Yahg Broker would have found the plans to the Crucible.

Liara got her information from Doctor Passante and she found the encryption keys on Kahje. The Yahg had the same information as Liara, and found nothing. He could have talked to Liara's mentor or send his agents to the protheans ruins on Kahje years ago...but he didn't. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Yahg has been even close to find the plans.

Modifié par Barquiel, 25 novembre 2013 - 06:57 .

[Rasofe]

Shepard: Be smart; let Feron walk out with us.
Broker: You won't be walking out at all.

The Broker wasn't going to be open for negotiations.

And I'm well aware that you are aware of a genetic fallacy. However, you should be aware that I'm aware of the fallacy fallacy, of which you too must be aware. My point still stands. This is veiled trash-talk, it's pointless, and it's not on topic.
So yes, your argument is completely demerited for being pointless in discussion.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 06:55 .

[Wayning_Star]

who ever built and programmed the crucible made sure that those who were to find plans found them, not others. I still believe that the catalyst has a hand in it all... bioware writer refused to disclose the connection...literally.

[Steelcan]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara got her information from Doctor Passante and she found the encryption keys on Kahje. The Yahg had the same information as Liara, and found nothing. He could have talked to Liara's mentor or send his agents to the protheans ruins on Kahje years ago...but he didn't. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Yahg has been even close to find the plans.

So Liara got information from someone else after freeloading off Shepard to get the SB out of the way...

[Linkenski]

I seriously doubt the Protheans, Innusannon etc. would be advanced enough to reverse engineer reaper tech, A-la the citadel, which I guess would be needed to make something like the Crucible, so I'm pretty damn sure it was a device created as a failsafe when the Citadel was built by the Reapers, or something that was left half-finished by the Leviathans before they were preserved as reapers.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

Shepard: Be smart; let Feron walk out with us.
Broker: You won't be walking out at all.

The Broker wasn't going to be open for negotiations.

And I'm well aware that you are aware of a genetic fallacy. However, you should be aware that I'm aware of the fallacy fallacy, of which you too must be aware. My point still stands. This is veiled trash-talk, it's pointless, and it's not on topic.
So yes, your argument is completely demerited for being pointless in discussion.

This argument has gone on to include other DLC's. I'd say it's more on the way side than actually completely off topic. If it really bothers you, don't bring it up in an attempt to kill it. Let it guide its way back to the main point of the thread.

And veiled trash-talk. To who, you? The people in this thread? No, I haven't said anything about them at all. I've expressed my opinion about Liara and how I wish I could RP a Shepard that didn't have to have her around. So yes, it's trash talk to Liara, a fictional character.

And a note, the appeal to logic fallacy you've accused me of: point it out to me. I'm not seeing it. I'm not discrediting arguments, I'm stating that they contain fallacies. 

[Hazegurl]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara got her information from Doctor Passante and she found the encryption keys on Kahje. The Yahg had the same information as Liara, and found nothing. He could have talked to Liara's mentor or send his agents to the protheans ruins on Kahje years ago...but he didn't. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Yahg has been even close to find the plans.

I think that had a lot to do with the fact that he was dead. Does it even mention when the Broker got a hold of that information?

Anyway

I don't get what the big deal is. It wouldn't have taken much to rewrite for a Shepard who betrays Liara to the Broker. Same info could have been found, same help received, and Traynor still would have been doing her job. It just seems like some people can't handle the idea that another player would have handed over Liara if given the chance.

Also, it would have been awesome having a yhag squad mate too. If he would have joined the Normandy. I could've used that shield of his as a bonus power.   

Modifié par Hazegurl, 25 novembre 2013 - 07:08 .

[Rasofe]

They did make the Conduit though. But that was damn close to their extinction.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...
Liara got her information from Doctor Passante and she found the encryption keys on Kahje. The Yahg had the same information as Liara, and found nothing. He could have talked to Liara's mentor or send his agents to the protheans ruins on Kahje years ago...but he didn't. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Yahg has been even close to find the plans.

That's a mighty leap, especially when the information of the Yahg Broker was acquired before Liara went to Kahje? There are too many variables to say why the Broker didn't go to Kahje, and yes, I believe he simply hadn't gotten the information yet. Or maybe he did. There's nothing to suggest that he didn't either. The main event is that Liara didn't get her information about the Crucible, or Mars, or Kahje, until after the SB. So you're saying that because the Broker hadn't gotten the information yet, he must not have been close to obtaining it.

[trenq]

This is fun, all we need is Xil.

[Br3admax]

The sh*tstorm in this thread....it's beautiful. 

[Barquiel]

Hazegurl wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Liara got her information from Doctor Passante and she found the encryption keys on Kahje. The Yahg had the same information as Liara, and found nothing. He could have talked to Liara's mentor or send his agents to the protheans ruins on Kahje years ago...but he didn't. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Yahg has been even close to find the plans.

I don't get what the big deal is. It wouldn't have taken much to rewrite for a Shepard who betrays Liara to the Broker. Same info could have been found, same help received, and Traynor still would have been doing her job. It just seems like some people can't handle the idea that another player would have handed over Liara if given the chance.

And it wouldn't have taken much to rewrite for a Shepard who betrays Miranda to Captain Enyala, Zaeed to Vido, Kasumi to Hock, etc. You can always take a character out of the story. I just think such betrayels wouldn't make much sense and it would complicate things unnecessarily, which was my original point.

[Darks1d3]

Rasofe wrote...

Oh Massive, you're so full of bull****... it's obvious that you know what your fallacy was to treat my argument as invalid because of the genetic fallacy despite it being true. It's equally obvious you're sidetracking this thread because you'd like to get a rise out of the Liara fans. And it's even more obvious that you're doing it all with an air of superiority because you expect them to flip out at you so that you can accuse them of ad hominims and feel extremely good about it.

You can't prove any of the above wrong, too. Because it's the truth. True ad hominims are still true, Massive, and you are a terrible person.

Despite the fact that I'm a Liara fan, it's not working(if that's his goal anyway). I'm just amused. And yes, where is Xil? This could get more amusing. *grabs chips*