384 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So you're saying that because the Broker hadn't gotten the information yet, he must not have been close to obtaining it.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that there are prothean ruins on Kahje ("the size of cities"). We know that the Yahg was looking at protheans...but it was just an idea, nothing concrete  ("the SB seemed to think there was more out there. Perhaps the protheans had other plans"). So, why didn't he find the encryption keys? He had more than enough time. Not to mention that Hackett only lets Liara study the ruins on Mars because he trusts her. The SB has proven that he's not exactly trustworthy..

Because he hadn't gotten to the point where Liara got too.... mainly because she killed him.

Just because he didn't come across the idea for the keys as soon as Liara did (using his info that he narrowed down) does not mean he was incapable of finding the keys. It's not like Liara is the only person in the galaxy who could have been able to do it. 

As for the SB, he would probably just need to send in agents to infiltrate the site. Liara's trustworthiness is a rather crappy next to competence. I'd rather have someone competent than someone who's trustworthy if I can't have both. 

[RatThing]

Answering op.

Nah, the Citadel was too goofy, too cheesy for me and it didn't have a good story as well. It worked as a thing you do on the side and to get a couple of laughs but it would ridicule Mass Effect if it were the whole game.
What I really liked was the Leviathan DLC. It had a mystery to unravel, expanded the ME-Universe, had a dark and menacing tone, action, a well-conceived story and some breath taking moments like the under water mission. A little more interaction with the characters and some meaningful choises and that's how I would like ME3 to be.

Modifié par RatThing, 25 novembre 2013 - 07:50 .

[jtav]

The trouble is you need some constant characters to make the story work. So no betraying Liara or you're spending zots coming up with a replacement to no real purpose. I'd be more in favor of bringing the Thessia Virmire back since Liara has done what the plot needed her to by then.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

jtav wrote...

The trouble is you need some constant characters to make the story work. So no betraying Liara or you're spending zots coming up with a replacement to no real purpose. I'd be more in favor of bringing the Thessia Virmire back since Liara has done what the plot needed her to by then.

I'd support this idea as well. 

And what if Liara (in my game) was the only person on Thessia to killing/firing the VS? 

Would I still have to automatically save her? Or could I leave her for some applied phlebotinum object?

Also, I do support having an SM mechanic for Earth as well.

Lot's of dead people. Everywhere.

[Rasofe]

RatThing wrote...

Answering op.

Nah, the Citadel was too goofy, too cheesy for me and it didn't have a good story as well. It worked as a thing you do on the side and to get a couple of laughs but it would ridicule Mass Effect if it were the whole game.
What I really liked was the Leviathan DLC. It had a mystery to unravel, expanded the ME-Universe, had a dark and menacing tone, action, a well-conceived story and some breath taking moments like the under water mission. A little more interaction with the characters and some meaningful choises and that's how I would like ME3 to be.

Well you don't get to kill the creature. So that's one less meaningful choice.
A whole 40 hours wouldn't last with a tone like Citadel, especially since the trilogy has been building up to this immense conflict that is the selling point of ME3, but the idea OP is expressing is that 10 hours of this kind of experience is what he was looking for rather than 30 hours of global warfare.

[Hazegurl]

I think Citadel should have been the whole game insofar as the character interactions, an apartment, spending more time with the crew, and allowing us to enjoy the world that was created. I sort of wish the reaper idea was scrapped in ME1. It just went downhill from there anyway. Or at least make it so that Arrival was about permanently shutting the reapers out of the galaxy or something. let ME3 be something totally different.

[Rasofe]

Well, that would be weird. Paid DLC for beating the trilogy?
Maybe if they'd just listened to Shepard earlier, they would've already been done with the Crucible, hooked it up to the Citadel, got a more intelligent AI like EDI to hack the Catalyst and fixed it's stupid non-discriminatory protocols then fired the Reapers the moment they came in.
Hindsight is 20/20. Most of the customers only found out the Reapers were a bad idea in ME3, if they ever did.

@Street:
Here's hoping. Even if FemShepard doesn't become the pirate Reaper goddess of Omega, at least maybe we can play a character that will rise through Omega to finally force Aria into retirement.
I call it... Mass Crime Eezo.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 08:04 .

[Barquiel]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So you're saying that because the Broker hadn't gotten the information yet, he must not have been close to obtaining it.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that there are prothean ruins on Kahje ("the size of cities"). We know that the Yahg was looking at protheans...but it was just an idea, nothing concrete  ("the SB seemed to think there was more out there. Perhaps the protheans had other plans"). So, why didn't he find the encryption keys? He had more than enough time. Not to mention that Hackett only lets Liara study the ruins on Mars because he trusts her. The SB has proven that he's not exactly trustworthy..

Because he hadn't gotten to the point where Liara got too.... mainly because she killed him.

Just because he didn't come across the idea for the keys as soon as Liara did (using his info that he narrowed down) does not mean he was incapable of finding the keys. It's not like Liara is the only person in the galaxy who could have been able to do it. 

As for the SB, he would probably just need to send in agents to infiltrate the site. Liara's trustworthiness is a rather crappy next to competence. I'd rather have someone competent than someone who's trustworthy if I can't have both. 

The Yahg was neither competent nor trustworthy. He was just greedy, that's all. The Yahg knew that the reapers are coming. He knew that the collectors are protheans...and he still made a deal with them (because the payment was good). Liara barely had about 6 months of being the Shadow Broker before Cerberus attacked her, presumably even less than that considering it happened before the Reaper attack on Earth.  Meanwhile the Yahg had decades of experience in the business before Liara killed him. What makes you think he would have come to the idea for the keys in the next 6 months? Liara is going to Thessia to ask her mentor because the Yahg had nothing, just a vague idea.

Modifié par Barquiel, 25 novembre 2013 - 08:04 .

[Br3admax]

There are a lot of assumptions being made in this argument that I'm not to comfortable with. Mainly the one where you assume that Liara found the plans on her own, even though even the end of LotSB hints at the Crucible a little.

Modifié par Br3ad, 25 novembre 2013 - 08:09 .

[Hazegurl]

Barquiel wrote...
The Yahg was neither competent nor trustworthy. He was just greedy, that's all. The Yahg knew that the reapers are coming. He knew that the collectors are protheans...and he still made a deal with them (because the payment was good).

A dead Shepard was a useless Shepard. I still don't see what the Collectors could've use his body for except to grind down for their human reaper. Unless they could have somehow merged Shepard with the human reaper on a conscious level.  Make him Harby's right hand.


 

The funny thing is is this how Hudson talks about his game the most. With Walters it's the characters. They always talk about just wanting to "smell the roses" and wander in the Citadel and live in Omega and stuff like that. Hudson especially is into the whole world building stuff. And I think they're going back to that in the new game.

 I do hope they do that for the next game. I just don't see how another big bad evils plot is going to work, especially since it didn't work to begin with.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 25 novembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[Br3admax]

Not that either of those things make much sense, but hey.

[Rasofe]

Hazegurl wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
The Yahg was neither competent nor trustworthy. He was just greedy, that's all. The Yahg knew that the reapers are coming. He knew that the collectors are protheans...and he still made a deal with them (because the payment was good).

A dead Shepard was a useless Shepard. I still don't see what the Collectors could've use his body for except to grind down for their human reaper. Unless they could have somehow merged Shepard with the human reaper on a conscious level.  Make him Harby's right hand.


 

Well, he wasn't dead enough to stay dead. The Collectors were possibly directed to perform examinations on the corpse, just as they did with other humans. Or maybe as you say, something more sinister.
Harbinger also makes a point that he's not beyond decimating Shepard. So a dead Shepard isn't so much of a problem. It's ambiguous what Harbinger considers alive anyway.
Remember, Leviathan DLC suggests the Catalyst studies organic life by turning them into Reapers to find a solution to the problem. No, it doesn't make sense how it came to this methodology for its supposed task. The details aren't that clear either. Personally, I think it's because the Levithan's are monsters themselves, and any AI they create would be equally monstrous, like a giant shark that wants to identify its target by eating it (or so I've heard).

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 08:25 .

[Hazegurl]

StreetMagic wrote...
Well, now we can retroactively say they just wanted to use his body for Synthesis.

Although back then it had more to do with Reaper baby.. but lets just forget that for now *cough*.

lol! Yeah I'll just go with that. I can just say the starbrat lied when he said that he just discovered that synthesis was possible.

They wanted to learn how he dances.

Great now I'm picturing the Human Reaper dancing like Shepard.

[Chashan]

StreetMagic wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I think Citadel should have been the whole game insofar as the character interactions, an apartment, spending more time with the crew, and allowing us to enjoy the world that was created. I sort of wish the reaper idea was scrapped in ME1. It just went downhill from there anyway. Or at least make it so that Arrival was about permanently shutting the reapers out of the galaxy or something. let ME3 be something totally different.

The funny thing is is this how Hudson talks about his game the most. With Walters it's the characters. They always talk about just wanting to "smell the roses" and wander in the Citadel and live in Omega and stuff like that. Hudson especially is into the whole world building stuff. And I think they're going back to that in the new game.

That would do for a point to rewind the clock to and go with a different set of events from then on, ME1's thwarting Sovereign's assuming control of the Citadel aside. Now add a return to a more refined overheat-system in the spirit of ME1 as far as ammunition goes as well as biotics having sure-fire ways to overcome shields, and that would be a neat starting-point for the ME-games to come right there.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...

The Yahg was neither competent nor trustworthy. He was just greedy, that's all. The Yahg knew that the reapers are coming. He knew that the collectors are protheans...and he still made a deal with them (because the payment was good). Liara barely had about 6 months of being the Shadow Broker before Cerberus attacked her, presumably even less than that considering it happened before the Reaper attack on Earth.  Meanwhile the Yahg had decades of experience in the business before Liara killed him. What makes you think he would have come to the idea for the keys in the next 6 months? Liara is going to Thessia to ask her mentor because the Yahg had nothing, just a vague idea.

You're begging the question here. You're arguing that the fact that because the Yahg broker didn't find the information in the prior decades as Broker, he was incapable of finding the information. This is a combination of chronological snobbery and the Historian's fallacy.

To clarify as an example, say you have an archaeologist who's been working for years around the world trying to learn about a civilization and their lost treasure. He hears from second hand sources about the existence of a cache of gold somewhere in the world. Before he can find it, he's killed by another archaeologist. He leaves behind only his notes as to the possibility of the existence of such treasure. The other archaeologist goes on to study more sources and gather more information based on this specific treasure. Eventually, he finds it.

Does this mean the first archaeologist was incompetent? No.

He was completely competent. In fact, look at his track record. He's very well known, and very well regarded throughout the galaxy for his skills and ability with information. He was greedy, and justifiably so. He was out to survive the coming holocaust. I'm not saying he wasn't misguided in how he chose to perform his plans (by making deals with the Collectors), but he was doing what I'd do in trying to survive. Where would Liara be if she hadn't become Broker? She learned about the existence of such rumors about the Prothean weapon from the Brokers files. Just because he didn't have anything concrete at the point where Liara had nothing at all. Look at my example. As for trustworthiness, I'd say that he knows he can't bargain with the Reapers. I'm sure he knows they're coming. He may not be trustworthy by nature, but he knows what will happen if he isn't trustworthy. So I'm more than certain that he'd devote himself to helping fight the Reapers in any manner he could.

[RatThing]

Rasofe wrote...

RatThing wrote...

Answering op.

Nah, the Citadel was too goofy, too cheesy for me and it didn't have a good story as well. It worked as a thing you do on the side and to get a couple of laughs but it would ridicule Mass Effect if it were the whole game.
What I really liked was the Leviathan DLC. It had a mystery to unravel, expanded the ME-Universe, had a dark and menacing tone, action, a well-conceived story and some breath taking moments like the under water mission. A little more interaction with the characters and some meaningful choises and that's how I would like ME3 to be.

Well you don't get to kill the creature. So that's one less meaningful choice.
A whole 40 hours wouldn't last with a tone like Citadel, especially since the trilogy has been building up to this immense conflict that is the selling point of ME3, but the idea OP is expressing is that 10 hours of this kind of experience is what he was looking for rather than 30 hours of global warfare.

To be honest, I don't really think the Citadel DLC gave us what wasn't already in the main game or other DLC's. The main game had funny and a little goofy scenes (Wrex on Sur'kesh ("Salarian liver") or Tali Ashley/Liara catfights). Almost every character had at least one appearance, one private scene on the Citadel (main game, not DLC, I know Grunt and Traynor didn't). Romances? Idk, not my priority, but at least they were all still there. So it was all there, the DLC just gave us a lot more of that.

 

[Rasofe]

Hey, that's from an agsii1 vid. I watched it earlier today.
*Rubs against a dancer*
I know you feel this!

[Rasofe]

RatThing wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

RatThing wrote...

Answering op.

Nah, the Citadel was too goofy, too cheesy for me and it didn't have a good story as well. It worked as a thing you do on the side and to get a couple of laughs but it would ridicule Mass Effect if it were the whole game.
What I really liked was the Leviathan DLC. It had a mystery to unravel, expanded the ME-Universe, had a dark and menacing tone, action, a well-conceived story and some breath taking moments like the under water mission. A little more interaction with the characters and some meaningful choises and that's how I would like ME3 to be.

Well you don't get to kill the creature. So that's one less meaningful choice.
A whole 40 hours wouldn't last with a tone like Citadel, especially since the trilogy has been building up to this immense conflict that is the selling point of ME3, but the idea OP is expressing is that 10 hours of this kind of experience is what he was looking for rather than 30 hours of global warfare.

To be honest, I don't really think the Citadel DLC gave us what wasn't already in the main game or other DLC's. The main game had funny and a little goofy scenes (Wrex on Sur'kesh ("Salarian liver") or Tali Ashley/Liara catfights). Almost every character had at least one appearance, one private scene on the Citadel (main game, not DLC, I know Grunt and Traynor didn't). Romances? Idk, not my priority, but at least they were all still there. So it was all there, the DLC just gave us a lot more of that.

 

Well, for others half a bar of chocolate isn't enough to satisfy their needs. 3-7 hours of intense characterorama can be overwhelming, and the magnitude is felt. I've tried to do things like pile up character meetings in classic ME3 and it never amounted to this level of rapid awesomesauce.

The thing that was missing from ME3 was a world without Reapers in it, and all that they brought with them. That's a very big hole. I'm glad they patched it up. For all the talk of "It's like this place wants you to forget that - it's so peaceful here." maybe we do all just want to forget that this messy war that took our naivety and optimism away ever happened.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 08:46 .