384 réponses à ce sujet

[Display Name Owner]

Not me, tbh. Not by any stretch.

I actually enjoyed ME3's tone a lot. Yeah, it was kind of moody, why shouldn't it have been? It's about civilisation being snuffed out. But it had it's uplifting and humorous moments. It had a nice balance. That's not to say it didn't have it's annoying touches, all the stuff where you were obviously meant to get all teary eyed about Vent Boy or Thessia. Don't even talk to me about those dreams...

But personally I'm not a fan of Citadel's wacky cuteness. Fine for an optional DLC, but tbh I'm glad it wasn't even included in the vanilla game.

Actually, since pretty much all of ME3's big problems are plot stuff imo, Citadel is the very opposite of what ME3 should have been. Because that stuff with the clone, Cerberus being behind it all yet again... the plot in Citadel was awful. Not that Citadel was ever even about the plot, it was about fanservice.

[tonnactus]

So a subpar fanfic with chessy onliners,completely out of character for those who spoke them?

[Fixers0]

I might be one of the few here, but the Reaper war to me  never felt like it was a dark or desperate, rather it felt contrived and  nonsencial. Bioware's total lack of understanding with regards to military matters and the total abscene of consistent information regarding the progress of the ongoing war created a very unconvincing and artifical setting. To me it felt like the war itself, as well other like war assets and news reports and even the crucible were all subordinate to Shepard's adventure of recruiting races and shooting Cerberus were as these things would actually have to govern Shepard's story. It would have been forgiveable had the Reaper war been a small conflict in a large universe, but when it's a large conflict in a small universe, such a tightly focused story just doesn't work.

[Linkenski]

I hate to go offtopic but here it is again. Why should I be less upset about Thessia falling than Earth? Everytime I mention how I hated the "oh no, Earth, Earth, Earth" in ME3 people go all "Y don't U understand that you're just calling for backup and not asking people to sacrifice their shid for Earth!?"... Dudes and dudettes, it's not the point. WHY IS EARTH IMPORTANT!? I heard a couple of things about Thessia in ME2, I heard so much about Palaven, but Earth in MEU is just not the Earth IRL that I know, not in the same way. WTH should I care about Earth where I've never been, least of all when my shep has never been there? Say if he's a spacer or a colonist?

Dudes, Thessia falls under full Reaper dominance before Earth is even close to being lost. Why am I supposed to be mad about Earth? I don't understand this at all.

[AlanC9]

@ iakus: Yep. I'm a master of understatement.

To some extent the issue is that Bio took away the illusion of control rather than actual control. A lot of what would have been investigate options and followup questions in the earlier games play out as autodialogue in ME3. This only reduces actual control slightly.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 novembre 2013 - 06:55 .

[Barquiel]

I was more upset seeing Palavan and Thessia being attacked, but I don't really have a problem with Shepard caring about Earth. It spends a longer time occupied than any other council world. It has the highest reaper presence and most processor ships are on Earth. As Anderson said, the resistance abandoned the cities early since the Reaper presence there was too strong. Earth was, beside Khar'shan, hit the worst.

But I do have a problem with Shepard acting like everyone else should care about Earth while their own homeworlds are burning...because tactically, trying to take back Earth is stupid. They should really have focused more on liberating Thessia, Palavan and Sur'Kesh with the final battle taking place at Earth. Earth should only become important after the Citadel gets moved there, but that doesn't happen until late in the game

Modifié par Barquiel, 24 novembre 2013 - 07:02 .

[AlanC9]

Linkenski wrote...

I hate to go offtopic but here it is again. Why should I be less upset about Thessia falling than Earth? Everytime I mention how I hated the "oh no, Earth, Earth, Earth" in ME3 people go all "Y don't U understand that you're just calling for backup and not asking people to sacrifice their shid for Earth!?"... Dudes and dudettes, it's not the point. WHY IS EARTH IMPORTANT!? I heard a couple of things about Thessia in ME2, I heard so much about Palaven, but Earth in MEU is just not the Earth IRL that I know, not in the same way. WTH should I care about Earth where I've never been, least of all when my shep has never been there? Say if he's a spacer or a colonist?.

Would someone who's never left Hawaii care if the continental USA was overrun by killer robots? I'd like to think so, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

Or are you talking about Linkenski rather than Shepard?

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 novembre 2013 - 07:08 .

[eyezonlyii]

I was actually going to make a topic on this as well OP. I played Citadel for the first time ever yesterday, and I have to say it was amazing! I loved everything about it. Honestly, and I may be in the minority here, but I do think the clone bit could have been in the main plat somewhere. Maybe in ME2 for instance as a sort of Shepard loyalty mission or in ME3 as a whole instead of Kai Leng...or even just at Sanctuary. How weird would it have been if you're playing and you overhear NPC's talking about how Commander Shepard is urging everyone to go to Sanctuary, then you get finally get there, and BOOM clone fight?

[Display Name Owner]

@ Linkenski Vent Boy and Thessia were my two examples of things you were obviously supposed to care about but I didn't, but Earth goes on that list as well. I didn't feel a shred of anything for Earth. Maybe I should have said Earth instead of Thessia, because Thessia was at least a planet of some importance in-universe.

[dreamgazer]

After a year and a half, I still don't think that you were supposed to care about "vent boy" himself (and, in degrees, Thessia), but what he stood for once he was taken down.

They were both representations of what'll happen in the bigger picture.

[Br3admax]

I didn't feel any sympathy for anyone in universe. They're all a bunch of idiots, anyway.

[ruggly]

I don't think ME3 should've been completely like Citadel, it needed to be darker considering what was going on. Perhaps a few more lighthearted moments here and there, considering how many times they forcefully tried to make you feel sad (the child dying, Shepard's oh so beautiful but sad sacrifice at the end, etc etc.)

[Linkenski]

AlanC9 wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

I hate to go offtopic but here it is again. Why should I be less upset about Thessia falling than Earth? Everytime I mention how I hated the "oh no, Earth, Earth, Earth" in ME3 people go all "Y don't U understand that you're just calling for backup and not asking people to sacrifice their shid for Earth!?"... Dudes and dudettes, it's not the point. WHY IS EARTH IMPORTANT!? I heard a couple of things about Thessia in ME2, I heard so much about Palaven, but Earth in MEU is just not the Earth IRL that I know, not in the same way. WTH should I care about Earth where I've never been, least of all when my shep has never been there? Say if he's a spacer or a colonist?.

Would someone who's never left Hawaii care if the continental USA was overrun by killer robots? I'd like to think so, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

Or are you talking about Linkenski rather than Shepard?

I'm talking about the fact that Shepard is not shown having any serious relation to Earth prior to ME3, if he isn't an Earthborn. I like to think that in MEU there's just as many, if not more, human beings scattered across different planets in the galaxy than there is on Earth, considering the ease of traveling via Mass Relays and such. I never pictured Earth would hold the majority of humanity.

The problem is also the implication that ME3's plot is about "saving the face of humanity" = Earth, when EVERYONE is getting smacked by the Reapers, and I don't know about you, but for me, ME2 made me care more about the aliens than the humans of Mass Effect.

In ME3 everything is military and about humanity which I see as MEU's equivalent of USA. It's like watching Man of Steel which was horrible by the way. That movie also had to much pathos bullcrap about the military that felt completely redundant, and I say it again, I don't know if I have to live in american to understand that. Being dane myself, European, Scandinavian I just see, in general, a lot of US-egocentricity in hollywood movies, and I think ME3 became that, when ME1 and ME2 were more neutral.

Modifié par Linkenski, 24 novembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[eyezonlyii]

Linkenski wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

I hate to go offtopic but here it is again. Why should I be less upset about Thessia falling than Earth? Everytime I mention how I hated the "oh no, Earth, Earth, Earth" in ME3 people go all "Y don't U understand that you're just calling for backup and not asking people to sacrifice their shid for Earth!?"... Dudes and dudettes, it's not the point. WHY IS EARTH IMPORTANT!? I heard a couple of things about Thessia in ME2, I heard so much about Palaven, but Earth in MEU is just not the Earth IRL that I know, not in the same way. WTH should I care about Earth where I've never been, least of all when my shep has never been there? Say if he's a spacer or a colonist?.

Would someone who's never left Hawaii care if the continental USA was overrun by killer robots? I'd like to think so, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

Or are you talking about Linkenski rather than Shepard?

I'm talking about the fact that Shepard is not shown having any serious relation to Earth prior to ME3, if he isn't an Earthborn. I like to think that in MEU there's just as many, if not more, human beings scattered across different planets in the galaxy than there is on Earth, considering the ease of traveling via Mass Relays and such. I never pictured Earth would hold the majority of humanity.

The problem is also the implication that ME3's plot is about "saving the face of humanity" = Earth, when EVERYONE is getting smacked by the Reapers, and I don't know about you, but for me, ME2 made me care more about the aliens than the humans of Mass Effect.

In ME3 everything is military and about humanity which I see as MEU's equivalent of USA. It's like watching Man of Steel which was horrible by the way. That movie also had to much pathos bullcrap about the military that felt completely redundant, and I say it again, I don't know if I have to live in american to understand that. Being dane myself, European, Scandinavian I just see, in general, a lot of US-egocentricity in hollywood movies, and I think ME3 became that, when ME1 and ME2 were more neutral.

The problem with the Earthcentrism in the 3rd one is the fact that in order to attract new players, they have to have a reason to care. Therefore a plot is needed where the majority of the new players can relate to something and tagline of Take Back Earth is something that most people would understand, and be somewhat interested in. Of course it reeks of Hollywood Americanization, but it is what it is. Having grown up as a military brat, I got to see a lot of it first hand, and it's funny, because I've lived in so many different places that I don't really consider the US to be the focal point of my world. Sure I claim a US city as my hometown, but that's only because I spent 5 years there, longer than I've lived anywhere else. I was actually born on a small base in Europe.

[Linkenski]

And that's also why I think the majority of ME3 was awful. It caters to newcomers and it sacrificed too much of what I grew in love with about MEU in order to do so. The only people I know who bought ME3 without having played 1 or 2 were like, "Yeah, it's a really great action game!". So much of the sci-fi-ness was lost in ME3. So many parts felt like WW2 or other war-movie allegories and there's too much Independence Day, sometimes Schindler's List references that I couldn't stand.

...and then to get back on topic, I don't think The Citadel gave me back what was missing from ME3. It was merely fan-service and nothing more. Bioware has fans who actually miss their sci-fi IP.

Modifié par Linkenski, 24 novembre 2013 - 08:37 .

[dreamgazer]

Linkenski wrote...

And that's also why I think the majority of ME3 was awful. It caters to newcomers and it sacrificed too much of what I grew in love with about MEU in order to do so.

Once can easily say the same thing about ME2.  They do, in fact.

Did you dislike that one, too? 

[Linkenski]

Nope. ME2 didn't have autodialogue, didn't **** on your choices and more importantly, it didn't change the ME vibe in a too signfiicant way as ME3 did. ME2 felt very much like a continuation of what I loved. Some changes made me iffy, like the lack of customization, but ultimately I thought combat was better.

Also, I never really liked ME1's plot so much that I thought ME2 made anything worse to be honest (if that makes sense). I always loved the exploration of this rich sci-fi universe Bioware had created and ME2 showed so much more of it and I liked the new characters and subplots, and I especially liked how the game didn't "end" when you completed it, so DLCs felt like extensions of ME2. ME2 is, like on many "Top 10 of this gen" my favorite game in the series. Screw the shallow plot, at least it didn't make me crazy like the americanization of ME3 did, and which is why I consider ME3 to have the weakest plot of all the games even if it is stronger from the literary perspective.

Modifié par Linkenski, 24 novembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[Mr.House]

Linkenski wrote...

And that's also why I think the majority of ME3 was awful. It caters to newcomers and it sacrificed too much of what I grew in love with about MEU in order to do so. The only people I know who bought ME3 without having played 1 or 2 were like, "Yeah, it's a really great action game!". So much of the sci-fi-ness was lost in ME3. So many parts felt like WW2 or other war-movie allegories and there's too much Independence Day, sometimes Schindler's List references that I couldn't stand.

...and then to get back on topic, I don't think The Citadel gave me back what was missing from ME3. It was merely fan-service and nothing more. Bioware has fans who actually miss their sci-fi IP.

The same can be applied to ME2.

[Mr.House]

Linkenski wrote...

Nope. ME2 didn't have autodialogue, didn't **** on your choices and more importantly, it didn't change the ME vibe in a too signfiicant way as ME3 did. ME2 felt very much like a continuation of what I loved. Some changes made me iffy, like the lack of customization, but ultimately I thought combat was better.

lol.

[Linkenski]

Mr.House wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

And that's also why I think the majority of ME3 was awful. It caters to newcomers and it sacrificed too much of what I grew in love with about MEU in order to do so. The only people I know who bought ME3 without having played 1 or 2 were like, "Yeah, it's a really great action game!". So much of the sci-fi-ness was lost in ME3. So many parts felt like WW2 or other war-movie allegories and there's too much Independence Day, sometimes Schindler's List references that I couldn't stand.

...and then to get back on topic, I don't think The Citadel gave me back what was missing from ME3. It was merely fan-service and nothing more. Bioware has fans who actually miss their sci-fi IP.

The same can be applied to ME2.

Again, one thing I grew in love with was the Sci-fi ness, and another thing was the exploration and RPGness.

ME2 sacrificed the RPGness a tiny bit, but everything else felt intact and I thought it was more than "a great action game", which was just a neat addition.

ME3 sacrificed all of those elements. It has less of a sci-fi feel, much less exploration and the RPGness mostly took a step down, hence, Autodialogue.

ME2 is the better game PERIOD, but I fully understand why some think ME1 is better or the only good ME game. But I don't follow it when people say ME3 > ME2.

Modifié par Linkenski, 24 novembre 2013 - 08:49 .

[AresKeith]

Linkenski wrote...

Nope. ME2 didn't have autodialogue, didn't **** on your choices and more importantly, it didn't change the ME vibe in a too signfiicant way as ME3 did. ME2 felt very much like a continuation of what I loved. Some changes made me iffy, like the lack of customization, but ultimately I thought combat was better.
.

As much as I enjoyed ME2, no it didn't

[Mr.House]

Linkenski wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

And that's also why I think the majority of ME3 was awful. It caters to newcomers and it sacrificed too much of what I grew in love with about MEU in order to do so. The only people I know who bought ME3 without having played 1 or 2 were like, "Yeah, it's a really great action game!". So much of the sci-fi-ness was lost in ME3. So many parts felt like WW2 or other war-movie allegories and there's too much Independence Day, sometimes Schindler's List references that I couldn't stand.

...and then to get back on topic, I don't think The Citadel gave me back what was missing from ME3. It was merely fan-service and nothing more. Bioware has fans who actually miss their sci-fi IP.

The same can be applied to ME2.

Again, one thing I grew in love with was the Sci-fi ness, and another thing was the exploration and RPGness.

ME2 sacrificed the RPGness a tiny bit, but everything else felt intact and I thought it was more than "a great action game", which was just a neat addition.

ME3 sacrificed all of those elements. It has less of a sci-fi feel, much less exploration and the RPGness mostly took a step down, hence, Autodialogue.

Please, ME2 was just as much as a science fantasty then ME3, at least in ME3 peopel wore armor in combat and didn't try to be a poor mans Marvel story with horrible SW aspects.

[Linkenski]

I understand it when you're coming from a literary perspective saying "ME2 is a bad continuation" but to say it as bluntly as I can:

ME1 is the core foundation of the series obviously.
ME2 felt like a Mass Effect game.
ME3 did not feel Mass Effect at all to me.

Yes, ME3 did have sci-fi but in MOST cases I thought it felt less so than it did in ME1 or ME2. The militaristic feel makes it feel like a WWII allegory IMO, and gameplay wise it was better combat wise but much worse RPG wise because there were fewer hubs and less dialogue options in general.

The only mission on Tuchanka I liked was The Genophage Cure. Everything else were so militaristic I wanted to turn off the game. Likewise with Rannoch and likewise with Thessia. ME3 does not feel like a Mass Effect GAEM.

Modifié par Linkenski, 24 novembre 2013 - 08:54 .

[Mr.House]

Linkenski wrote...

I understand it when you're coming from a literary perspective saying "ME2 is a bad continuation" but to say it as bluntly as I can:

ME1 is the core foundation of the series obviously.
ME2 felt like a Mass Effect game.
ME3 did not feel Mass Effect at all to me.

If ME is the foundation then ME2 should be similar, it's not, like ME3 it departed from the first game in many ways.

[dreamgazer]

LOL @ ME3 being the reduction of the RPGness.

Linkenski, I think you need to replay ME2, and that's coming from someone who actually does enjoy the game quite a bit.