384 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkenski]

Yes, in everything but vibe as I see it, but ME3 greatly ruined the vibe and the autodialogue just ruined too much as well, and that's generally why I dislike ME3 as a whole.

[Linkenski]

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ ME3 being the reduction of the RPGness.

Linkenski, I think you need to replay ME2, and that's coming from someone who actually does enjoy the game quite a bit.

Played through the trilogy 5 times and I don't think having more things to upgrade on a character menu makes it feel more like an RPG. ME's biggest RPG attract-factor for me was the dialogue, in which you could "ROLEPLAY" and that was so dumbed down in ME3 that it invalidates everything else that was made better. I really don't see how you can consider ME3 to be more of an RPG than ME2.

But, okay, I'm taking this argument way too far now, and I think this is more about my preference than anything else. I just hate americanized military BS, and that's why ME3 is a bad game as a whole, and on top of things I like games better if they don't make me a passive participant a-la Mass Effect 3. Period. I said the truth 

Modifié par Linkenski, 24 novembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[Mr.House]

Linkenski wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ ME3 being the reduction of the RPGness.

Linkenski, I think you need to replay ME2, and that's coming from someone who actually does enjoy the game quite a bit.

Played through the trilogy 5 times and I don't think having more things to upgrade on a character menu makes it feel more like an RPG. ME's biggest RPG attract-factor for me was the dialogue, in which you could "ROLEPLAY" and that was so dumbed down in ME3 that it invalidates everything else that was made better. I really don't see how you can consider ME3 to be more of an RPG than ME2.

There's more to a RPG then dialog, which ME2 reduced and ME3 fixed. If dialog and choices make a RPG then MANY games that are not RPGs can be called RPGs. ME3 while lacks in dialog has more rpg aspects then ME2 does.

[Steelcan]

the RP ability for dialgue was much toned down in ME3, but it wasn't perfect in ME2. You can't be nearly as anti-alien as you could in ME1.

Instead the paragon/renegade takes on the pro/anti Cerberus view.

ME3 dropped this so it became naive fool/raging psycho

[Br3admax]

While picking dialogue is nice, it isn't the basis of RPGness.

[Linkenski]

I know, I know, and Dialogue is not THE only thing that makes ME and RPG series, but it IS a factor and my argument was that ME3 fixed some of the lacking RPGness of ME2 while also dumbing down other factors like the Dialogue and the exploration and thus making it feel even inferior, at least to me.

[tonnactus]

Linkenski wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ ME3 being the reduction of the RPGness.

Linkenski, I think you need to replay ME2, and that's coming from someone who actually does enjoy the game quite a bit.

Played through the trilogy 5 times and I don't think having more things to upgrade on a character menu makes it feel more like an RPG. ME's biggest RPG attract-factor for me was the dialogue, in which you could "ROLEPLAY" and that was so dumbed down in ME3

Nonsens. Mass Effect 2 basicly forced the player to be either nearly strictly paragon or renegade, otherwise some options were never available(like with Morinth). Neutral wasnt exactly an option.

[DuskWanderer]

Considering that it's the conclusion of a trilogy, the very last thing BioWare is putting out for said trilogy, I understand why it was the way it was.

I liked it, at least the versions of it I have where Wrex is dead, he was just awful and annoying. It was a light hearted romp, a fun way to say goodbye to the series.

But it doesn't work as a total series: Jokes like that get too stale for a long time, plus stories require impact, and the fun of it lessened the impact.

[AlanC9]

Linkenski wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Would someone who's never left Hawaii care if the continental USA was overrun by killer robots? I'd like to think so, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

Or are you talking about Linkenski rather than Shepard?

I'm talking about the fact that Shepard is not shown having any serious relation to Earth prior to ME3, if he isn't an Earthborn. I like to think that in MEU there's just as many, if not more, human beings scattered across different planets in the galaxy than there is on Earth, considering the ease of traveling via Mass Relays and such. I never pictured Earth would hold the majority of humanity.

The most populous Alliance colonies have under 5 million population. Do the math.

The problem is also the implication that ME3's plot is about "saving the face of humanity" = Earth, when EVERYONE is getting smacked by the Reapers, and I don't know about you, but for me, ME2 made me care more about the aliens than the humans of Mass Effect.

In ME3 everything is military and about humanity which I see as MEU's equivalent of USA. It's like watching Man of Steel which was horrible by the way. That movie also had to much pathos bullcrap about the military that felt completely redundant, and I say it again, I don't know if I have to live in american to understand that. Being dane myself, European, Scandinavian I just see, in general, a lot of US-egocentricity in hollywood movies, and I think ME3 became that, when ME1 and ME2 were more neutral.

You didn't actually answer my question about a Hawaiian, though I suppose that example's a bit US-centric. How about someone from Bornholm learning that mainland Europe has been overrun by killer robots?

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 novembre 2013 - 11:39 .

[Linkenski]

tonnactus wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ ME3 being the reduction of the RPGness.

Linkenski, I think you need to replay ME2, and that's coming from someone who actually does enjoy the game quite a bit.

Played through the trilogy 5 times and I don't think having more things to upgrade on a character menu makes it feel more like an RPG. ME's biggest RPG attract-factor for me was the dialogue, in which you could "ROLEPLAY" and that was so dumbed down in ME3

Nonsens. Mass Effect 2 basicly forced the player to be either nearly strictly paragon or renegade, otherwise some options were never available(like with Morinth). Neutral wasnt exactly an option.

And you know what? I missed being able to be a complete idiot in ME3. Renegade options are often just the equivalent to neutral dialogue.

[Linkenski]

AlanC9 wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Would someone who's never left Hawaii care if the continental USA was overrun by killer robots? I'd like to think so, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

Or are you talking about Linkenski rather than Shepard?

I'm talking about the fact that Shepard is not shown having any serious relation to Earth prior to ME3, if he isn't an Earthborn. I like to think that in MEU there's just as many, if not more, human beings scattered across different planets in the galaxy than there is on Earth, considering the ease of traveling via Mass Relays and such. I never pictured Earth would hold the majority of humanity.

The most populous Alliance colonies have under 5 million population. Do the math.

The problem is also the implication that ME3's plot is about "saving the face of humanity" = Earth, when EVERYONE is getting smacked by the Reapers, and I don't know about you, but for me, ME2 made me care more about the aliens than the humans of Mass Effect.

In ME3 everything is military and about humanity which I see as MEU's equivalent of USA. It's like watching Man of Steel which was horrible by the way. That movie also had to much pathos bullcrap about the military that felt completely redundant, and I say it again, I don't know if I have to live in american to understand that. Being dane myself, European, Scandinavian I just see, in general, a lot of US-egocentricity in hollywood movies, and I think ME3 became that, when ME1 and ME2 were more neutral.

You didn't actually answer my question about a Hawaiian, though I suppose that example's a bit US-centric. How about someone from Bornholm learning that mainland Europe has been overrun by killer robots?

Doesn't matter to him if his actual relatives live in Japan ^^ for example. My main point was that to a lot of player including myself the fight for earth felt forced when you knew other alien worlds better than earth and cared more about it. I mean, I can buy that Shepard has the responsibility being an alliance soldier and human and all that, but it's the way he emotes about it that struck me as him being out of character for my shepard and for me personally.

[Wayning_Star]

isn't Shep spose to drag the rest of the MEU along with the human condition, as the catalyst has 'victimized' the earth as an epicenter of the next current harvest?

strikethrough edit.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 novembre 2013 - 12:22 .

[Clayless]

While Citadel was fun, that sort of humour can only really work in a side story. The meet-ups after the main mission would be fine I guess, as most of the time the weren't too over the top, but in a game as dark as ME3 it would need to be dark to reflect that. Too much light-heartedness and jokes would trivialise the events that are happpening.

[Wayning_Star]

actually to me the party was kind of insane.. in the scheme of things MEU. It could of happened a lot earlier, especially the clone war things..lol


edit: some can even plainly imagine Shep being a clone now and not resurrected at all...

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 novembre 2013 - 12:25 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Robosexual wrote...

While Citadel was fun, that sort of humour can only really work in a side story. The meet-ups after the main mission would be fine I guess, as most of the time the weren't too over the top, but in a game as dark as ME3 it would need to be dark to reflect that. Too much light-heartedness and jokes would trivialise the events that are happpening.

Oh, people don't get warfare at all do they...

[AlanC9]

Linkenski wrote...

Doesn't matter to him if his actual relatives live in Japan ^^ for example. 

Hmm.... this argument only works with right-wingers in the USA. I'm not sure it works in Canada at all. We're all immigrants over here, and this sort of thing is actually kind of offensive.

[Wayning_Star]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

While Citadel was fun, that sort of humour can only really work in a side story. The meet-ups after the main mission would be fine I guess, as most of the time the weren't too over the top, but in a game as dark as ME3 it would need to be dark to reflect that. Too much light-heartedness and jokes would trivialise the events that are happpening.

Oh, people don't get warfare at all do they...

Catch-22 also catch-22 (kchtwn-t-t, kch-)
n.
1.
a. A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions: "In the Catch-22 of a closed repertoire, only music that is already familiar is thought to deserve familiarity" (Joseph McLennan).
b. The rules or conditions that create such a situation.
2. A situation or predicament characterized by absurdity or senselessness.
3. A contradictory or self-defeating course of action: "The Catch-22 of his administration was that every grandiose improvement scheme began with community dismemberment" (Village Voice).
4. A tricky or disadvantageous condition; a catch: "Of course, there is a Catch-22 with Form 4868you are supposed to include a check if you owe any additional tax, otherwise you face some penalties" (New York).

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/Catch-22

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wayning_Star wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

While Citadel was fun, that sort of humour can only really work in a side story. The meet-ups after the main mission would be fine I guess, as most of the time the weren't too over the top, but in a game as dark as ME3 it would need to be dark to reflect that. Too much light-heartedness and jokes would trivialise the events that are happpening.

Oh, people don't get warfare at all do they...

Catch-22 also catch-22 (kchtwn-t-t, kch-)
n.
1.
a. A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions: "In the Catch-22 of a closed repertoire, only music that is already familiar is thought to deserve familiarity" (Joseph McLennan).
b. The rules or conditions that create such a situation.
2. A situation or predicament characterized by absurdity or senselessness.
3. A contradictory or self-defeating course of action: "The Catch-22 of his administration was that every grandiose improvement scheme began with community dismemberment" (Village Voice).
4. A tricky or disadvantageous condition; a catch: "Of course, there is a Catch-22 with Form 4868you are supposed to include a check if you owe any additional tax, otherwise you face some penalties" (New York).

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/Catch-22

Whatever you're smoking, you need to stop. I suggest a 12 step program.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Mr.House wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ ME3 being the reduction of the RPGness.

Linkenski, I think you need to replay ME2, and that's coming from someone who actually does enjoy the game quite a bit.

Played through the trilogy 5 times and I don't think having more things to upgrade on a character menu makes it feel more like an RPG. ME's biggest RPG attract-factor for me was the dialogue, in which you could "ROLEPLAY" and that was so dumbed down in ME3 that it invalidates everything else that was made better. I really don't see how you can consider ME3 to be more of an RPG than ME2.

There's more to a RPG then dialog, which ME2 reduced and ME3 fixed. If dialog and choices make a RPG then MANY games that are not RPGs can be called RPGs. ME3 while lacks in dialog has more rpg aspects then ME2 does.

Considering how crappy most of ME1's gameplay mechanics were, I think we're overall better off that ME2 simply took a scorched earth policy on that front.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

wirelesstkd wrote...

I guess there's not much of a question in there, but I really had to share... this DLC made me re-experience what made me a ME fan... it's something that, sadly, ME3's single player campaign never really made me feel (even though it's still a good game). So what did you guys think? Is the fun stuff what ME is really about, or do you think the overall tone of ME3 is where the series should go?

See, the bolded is a position that I have trouble relating to, primarily because Citadel gave me a very different vibe from ME1, ME2, as well as ME3.

Now, if you're saying that Citadel focuses on the companions, who happen to be your favorite aspect of Mass Effect, I can relate to that. I loved the cast as well.

But playing through Citadel gave a very different approach than anything experienced in the trilogy. ME1 didn't have anything like Grunt's story on the Citadel. It was more focused on the main goal and we learned more about these characters, as a side dish. And ME1 and 2 certainly had humor, but this was never used to motivate major plot points, similar to Traynor's toothbrush.

Citadel was a fun experience, but I think Bioware was only able to get away with it, because of their reputation with these characters, through 1-3 games. I can't think of any other Bioware game which gives me the same impression as the Citadel dlc, in Mass Effect or otherwise. I don't think Bioware could even get away with a 35+ hour experience of campy humor with no real dramatic tension.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 25 novembre 2013 - 02:46 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

AlanC9 wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

Doesn't matter to him if his actual relatives live in Japan ^^ for example. 

Hmm.... this argument only works with right-wingers in the USA. I'm not sure it works in Canada at all. We're all immigrants over here, and this sort of thing is actually kind of offensive.

For me it's more a sense of scale that I take an issue with. In Mass Effect, Earth is one of many potentially interesting worlds. Ending ME3 with the climax of "Take back Earth" and making all our actions focused around that goal doesn't quite hit the same epic notes as "Save the entire galaxy".

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 So the OP wanted:

-- LOTS of autodialogue/minimum player-agency.
-- Liara in mandatory role.
-- Villains that were cheesy, moronic, and had a dumb plan.
-- Plot that was all but meaningless.
-- No real continuity from previous installments.

... wait, isn't that the same set of stuff that people complain about with ME3? 

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think he wanted the light-hearted tone.

[wolfhowwl]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 So the OP wanted:

-- LOTS of autodialogue/minimum player-agency.
-- Liara in mandatory role.
-- Villains that were cheesy, moronic, and had a dumb plan.
-- Plot that was all but meaningless.
-- No real continuity from previous installments.

... wait, isn't that the same set of stuff that people complain about with ME3? 

b-but the fan service...

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 25 novembre 2013 - 03:13 .

[rapscallioness]

I liked the Citadel dlc, too, OP! Great fun. Great camaraderie. Loved the color and the details..like the fruit stand on the Cit., lol with the note that "I know you've been licking the fruit when I'm not here. Stop it." What? omg.

I don;t think ME3 vanilla was a good match for it, but I do hope to see some of the Citadel DLC vibe in future games balanced with a growing sense of urgency and combat.

Good times.