384 réponses à ce sujet

[wirelesstkd]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 So the OP wanted:

-- LOTS of autodialogue/minimum player-agency.
-- Liara in mandatory role.
-- Villains that were cheesy, moronic, and had a dumb plan.
-- Plot that was all but meaningless.
-- No real continuity from previous installments.

... wait, isn't that the same set of stuff that people complain about with ME3? 

I was talking about the tone. But some folks have made great points about how it might have gitten stale after a full game. They're probably right, but I just wish there had been more levity. The absolute void of humor in ME3 is probably why Citadel was so great... it was filling a hole. But rather than spread out across the whole game, it was just jammed in to one mission and one section of the hub world

[AlanC9]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
For me it's more a sense of scale that I take an issue with. In Mass Effect, Earth is one of many potentially interesting worlds. Ending ME3 with the climax of "Take back Earth" and making all our actions focused around that goal doesn't quite hit the same epic notes as "Save the entire galaxy".

That much I fully agree with. It's OK for Shepard to be a little more concerned with the fate of Earth than the fate of Thessia..... come to think of it, don't we have threads about how Shepard's too concerned with Thessia?  But it's not OK for her to advocate a pointless commitment of resources to fighting at Earth. I'd be a lot happier if Shepard only talked about the Crucible project.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 novembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[rapscallioness]

Well, there was drunk Tali which was pretty funny. Especially because somehow I had timed it..well, I was making my convo rounds and was planning on doing some really big close to the end mission. I walk in and drunk Tali. I'm thinking omg, I hope she sobers up soon. i need her.

So, I go piddle about then decide to check on Javik. I walk in and Tali has now drunk dialed Javik. Oh, god. Javik says, "I need you functional, Tali!" I'm thinking, yes.

So, okay. Then I piddle about some more then go to check on Garrus. Ahhh! Now there's Tali cuddling up w/Garrus. I was like omg facepalm.

[Clayless]

wirelesstkd wrote...

The absolute void of humor in ME3 is probably why Citadel was so great... it was filling a hole.

That's a bit harsh there. Arguably ME3 had the most humour in the series, even without the Citadel DLC.

If you want to see "void of humour", watch Breaking Bad.

Modifié par Robosexual, 25 novembre 2013 - 04:08 .

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

wirelesstkd wrote...

The absolute void of humor in ME3 is probably why Citadel was so great... it was filling a hole.

That's a bit harsh there. Arguably ME3 had the most humour in the series, even without the Citadel DLC.

If you want to see "void of humour", watch Breaking Bad.

Yeah, nothing gives me the giggles quite as much as PTSD, planetary annihilation, forced suicide...

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

wirelesstkd wrote...

The absolute void of humor in ME3 is probably why Citadel was so great... it was filling a hole.

That's a bit harsh there. Arguably ME3 had the most humour in the series, even without the Citadel DLC.

If you want to see "void of humour", watch Breaking Bad.

Yeah, nothing gives me the giggles quite as much as PTSD, planetary annihilation, forced suicide...

... a thresher maw tackling a Reaper, the rapport between James and Cortez, hangover eggs, a string of ten or more point-blank jokes between Joker and Garrus, drunk Tali, EDI's acclimation to tangible interaction ...

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...


... a thresher maw tackling a Reaper, the rapport between James and Cortez, hangover eggs, a string of ten or more point-blank jokes between Joker and Garrus, drunk Tali, EDI's acclimation to tangible interaction ...

Not funnu
okay a little funny
not funny
very hit and miss
okay pretty funny
Shepard was funnier

And none of it comes anywhere near balancing out

Colonies nuking themselves to avoid being taken by the Reapers
The PTSD asari talking about killing a little girl (heavily implied to be Joker's sister) to save her own ****
Sanctuary.  All of it
Charr's final message
The refugee camp on the CItadel
Ventboy
Thessia
RGB

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...


... a thresher maw tackling a Reaper, the rapport between James and Cortez, hangover eggs, a string of ten or more point-blank jokes between Joker and Garrus, drunk Tali, EDI's acclimation to tangible interaction ...

Not funnu
okay a little funny
not funny
very hit and miss
okay pretty funny
Shepard was funnier

And none of it comes anywhere near balancing out

Colonies nuking themselves to avoid being taken by the Reapers
The PTSD asari talking about killing a little girl (heavily implied to be Joker's sister) to save her own ****
Sanctuary.  All of it
Charr's final message
The refugee camp on the CItadel
Ventboy
Thessia
RGB

The Reapers were wiping out galactic life, iakus. Considering that, they squeezed in a respectable amount of humor---even minor dialogue elements throughout the game.  

[Iakus]

And some think they laid it on too thick to make the game enjoyable. Especially with the endings we got. Citadel might to too light hearted to stand well on it's own. But people needed it because ME3 was too cramming grim.

"It's bleak because it's bleak" really doesn't cut it

[SlottsMachine]

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

And some think they laid it on too thick to make the game enjoyable. Especially with the endings we got. Citadel might to too light hearted to stand well on it's own. But people needed it because ME3 was too cramming grim.

"It's bleak because it's bleak" really doesn't cut it

How about: "It's bleak because it's the cyclical extermination projected since ME1"?

I'm glad they took the tone seriously. 

[SlottsMachine]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

And some think they laid it on too thick to make the game enjoyable. Especially with the endings we got. Citadel might to too light hearted to stand well on it's own. But people needed it because ME3 was too cramming grim.

"It's bleak because it's bleak" really doesn't cut it

How about: "It's bleak because it's the cyclical extermination projected since ME1"?

I'm glad they took the tone seriously. 

My gripe with it was every character would constantly drone about, and in not particularly interesting ways either. "God I hate this war." "God I hate this war." Well obviously. 

Modifié par General Slotts, 25 novembre 2013 - 05:26 .

[Br3admax]

"Did I mention how much I hate this war?"

True line.

Modifié par Br3ad, 25 novembre 2013 - 05:27 .

[SlottsMachine]

Br3ad wrote...

"Did I mention how much I hate this war."

True line.

I was born in London. 






Seriously I was.

[Br3admax]

"Stop them? This isn't about tactics."

We're gon shoot at them 'tils they blow ups, and then we gon fight or we gon die. Then we gon go home.


ME3's problem isn't that it's bleak.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Br3ad wrote...

"Stop them? This isn't about tactics."

We're gon shoot at them 'tils they blow ups, and then we gon fight or we gon die. Then we gon go home.


ME3's problem isn't that it's bleak.

I'm trying not to remember that part of the game.

[dreamgazer]

Br3ad wrote...

ME3's problem isn't that it's bleak.

Agreed.

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

And some think they laid it on too thick to make the game enjoyable. Especially with the endings we got. Citadel might to too light hearted to stand well on it's own. But people needed it because ME3 was too cramming grim.

"It's bleak because it's bleak" really doesn't cut it

How about: "It's bleak because it's the cyclical extermination projected since ME1"?

I'm glad they took the tone seriously. 

Taking it seriously is one thing

Taking it to Eleven is quite another.

Bioware chose to hammer it over and over again "this is a hopeless war!  Your efforts so far barely slowed the Reapers down  The angst!  The drama!"

The audience  responded badly to this shift in tone from the first two games.  So Bioware chose a lighter DLC to wrap things up.  And lo and behold, it proved to be quite popular!

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...

"Stop them? This isn't about tactics."

We're gon shoot at them 'tils they blow ups, and then we gon fight or we gon die. Then we gon go home.


ME3's problem isn't that it's bleak.

The problem is that it's bleak, and it's bleak for no good reason.  It's an abrupt, pointless tonal shift from the first two games, where even if things got dark, the situation was never hopeless.  Here we're shown horrible situatons, and told to feel bad about them because PEOPLE ARE DYING AND THERE"S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!  FEEL SAD DANGIT!!!"

Modifié par iakus, 25 novembre 2013 - 05:35 .

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Taking it seriously is one thing

Taking it to Eleven is quite another.

Bioware chose to hammer it over and over again "this is a hopeless war!  Your efforts so far barely slowed the Reapers down  The angst!  The drama!"

The audience  responded badly to this shift in tone from the first two games.  So Bioware chose a lighter DLC to wrap things up.  And lo and behold, it proved to be quite popular!

Oh, iakus.  They could have gone much farther with the bleakness.  Please.

And yes, Citadel---released one year after the vanilla game---was well-received for being a lighter send-off that, for all intents and purposes, had nothing to do with the extermination going on.  Whether that's a fault or a benefit is up to the player, but there are definitely narrative issues that go along with that. 

[Br3admax]

iakus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

"Stop them? This isn't about tactics."

We're gon shoot at them 'tils they blow ups, and then we gon fight or we gon die. Then we gon go home.


ME3's problem isn't that it's bleak.

The problem is that it's bleak, and it's bleak for no good reason.  It's an abrupt, pointless tonal shift from the first two games, where even if things got dark, the situation was never hopeless.  Here we're shown horrible situatons, and told to feel bad about them because PEOPLE ARE DYING AND THERE"S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!  FEEL SAD DANGIT!!!"

You fight the Reapers a grand total of five times compared to the curb-stompingss given to Cerberus on the daily. You're making this a way bigger issue than it actually is. 

[wolfhowwl]

What were people expecting? We were told in two games that the reapers were an immensely powerful foe, I wasn't surprised when their attack was mostly a one-sided bloodbath.

ME3 wasn't that dark or bleak for what was happening. Besides when the player was stuck in an ugly situation Bioware usually gave you an out for a completionist/pure paragon run.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 25 novembre 2013 - 05:55 .

[AlanC9]

Br3ad wrote...
You fight the Reapers a grand total of five times compared to the curb-stompingss given to Cerberus on the daily. You're making this a way bigger issue than it actually is. 

I don't check your math there, unless you're only counting Priority missions. You probably shouldn't, since there are fewer Reaper opponents in the sidequests.

[Rasofe]

First off: I'm happy I bumped in here after I completed the DLC myself. Tonight. Between 8 PM and 7 AM. And I'm almost certain I'll go back for more Armax.

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...


... a thresher maw tackling a Reaper, the rapport between James and Cortez, hangover eggs, a string of ten or more point-blank jokes between Joker and Garrus, drunk Tali, EDI's acclimation to tangible interaction ...

Not funnu
okay a little funny
not funny
very hit and miss
okay pretty funny
Shepard was funnier

And none of it comes anywhere near balancing out

Colonies nuking themselves to avoid being taken by the Reapers
The PTSD asari talking about killing a little girl (heavily implied to be Joker's sister) to save her own ****
Sanctuary.  All of it
Charr's final message
The refugee camp on the CItadel
Ventboy
Thessia
RGB

The Reapers were wiping out galactic life, iakus. Considering that, they squeezed in a respectable amount of humor---even minor dialogue elements throughout the game.  

I think the point being made is that the Reapers shouldn't have been whiping out galactic life at all.
Hindsight being what it is, wouldn't it have been great if the Reapers were defeated in the first mission of the game, and then we could be spending time doing things like fighting rogue Cerberus cells, ending the Rannoch conflict and Tuchanka situation (because of some straggler destroyer here and there), , researching cycle history with the Leviathan (although this time the option to kill it would be plausible since the Reaper war would be over), liberating Omega, and maybe the final mission was the Citadel DLC?

Re-arrange the game's plot chronologically, cut out the things that aren't seamless (Citadel Coup, endings), and suddenly the story is almost flawless (or perfect, for a given value of perfect).
I can't blame the Op for saying that this is what he would've liked ME3 to be all along. I don't know if I agree with it being trumped by LotSB because as supplemental material - which is what DLC is - Citadel was closing a much bigger wound for a broader public than LotSB.

Maybe the problem is in the magnitude. Some orders of magnitude, namely the over-the-top kind, trigger some kind of ****** habilis reaction from the audience where they accept a reality where atrocity is a way of life. Other, lower orders of magnitude such as those with ME2's Collectors or the clone inspire concern and wholesome reaction, but do not actually drain the fun out of the story because the overcoming of such a challenge is plausible without exorbitant sacrifices. But Reapers exist in the perfect mid-area where they are a force that will and can destroy absolutely everything, but aren't world-stepping indestructible creatures that have already won. They can be beaten, but only through a pyrrhic victory.
It can be very, very difficult to write a personal or engaging story when the central conflict is that big.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 07:05 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

"Stop them? This isn't about tactics."

We're gon shoot at them 'tils they blow ups, and then we gon fight or we gon die. Then we gon go home.


ME3's problem isn't that it's bleak.

The problem is that it's bleak, and it's bleak for no good reason.  It's an abrupt, pointless tonal shift from the first two games, where even if things got dark, the situation was never hopeless.  Here we're shown horrible situatons, and told to feel bad about them because PEOPLE ARE DYING AND THERE"S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!  FEEL SAD DANGIT!!!"

That's something I'd lay at the feet of ME1 and ME2 where the player is dealing with dangerous, but manageable foes. There's nothing you deal with in either game that an assault rifle in theory couldn't solve.

But ME1's build up of Sovereign's strength, ME2's failure to move the narrative forward, and ME3's refusal to acknowledge what few elements ME2 added all contributed to the vibe put forth by ME3's main plot.

The tone shift isn't the problem for me. Empire Strikes Back has quite a tone shift from A New Hope, for example. If ME3's level of dramatic tension hadn't risen far above ME1 or 2, I would have seen that as a problem. Which comes with building up an unbeatable threat as unbeatable.