407 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

David7204 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Nothing whatsoever. Coincidence and luck are always part of the hero's success. They have to be.

Why?

Because the universe is complex and luck exists? Because anyone can win with enough good luck and lose with enough bad luck? It's always luck that the hero never dies in mundane circumstances. He doesn't get shot by mooks. He doesn't step on landmines. He doesn't choke on a walnut. Why? Because he's lucky.

So plot armor is the defining characteristic of heroes?

[David7204]

Narrative Causality is the defining characteristic of heroes. It's not plot armor.

Not just heroes. Nearly all protagonists.

Modifié par David7204, 26 novembre 2013 - 06:43 .

[Reorte]

Decent writing has characters try to come up with plans that require bad luck to fail, not rely on huge amounts of good luck to succeed. Sometimes coincidence and plain good fortune will play their part, but it shouldn't happen any more in fiction than it does in reality - arguably less, in fact, because sometimes the ridiculously implausible does happen in real life but relying on it in a story is just plain bad and lazy (unless your story is so huge that it can plausibly accommodate a very small amount of the improbable numbers turning up).

Shepard can get shot dead and it's critical mission failure when that happens.

[David7204]

Decent writing has plans that always go wrong. The only time things go to plan in fiction is when the audience doesn't know about the plan.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Aside from David claiming an objective truth about a completely subjective and non-concrete idea, he still hasn't explained how his conventional victory is going to work.

[Fixers0]

David7204 wrote...
Decent writing has plans that always go wrong. The only time things go to plan in fiction is when the audience doesn't know about the plan.

Glad you're here to teach us your own made up universal writing rules that everybody has to comply with.

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

Decent writing has plans that always go wrong. The only time things go to plan in fiction is when the audience doesn't know about the plan.

Usually they have one that doesn't work and then come up with another that does, or an overall plan that mostly works, with a few hiccups along the way. What they don't do is completely rely on the protagonists simply being lucky enough for the solution to fall into their hands.

David, when can we read your novel?

Modifié par Reorte, 26 novembre 2013 - 06:56 .

[Linkenski]

Fixers0 wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Decent writing has plans that always go wrong. The only time things go to plan in fiction is when the audience doesn't know about the plan.

Glad you're here to teach us your own made up universal writing rules that everybody has to comply with.

Just what I was thinking as well. David, you're not an authority and I'd like to see some kind of source if you claim what you're saying is a supposed absolute truth. Is it something another narrative theorist has said? I don't consider myself to be particularly smart but this is as pseudo-intellectual as it gets, man.

Modifié par Linkenski, 26 novembre 2013 - 06:59 .

[dreamgazer]

Dat formula. Dem rules.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Linkenski wrote...
Just what I was thinking as well. David, you're not an authority and I'd like to see some kind of source if you claim what you're saying is a supposed absolute truth. Is it something another narrative theorist has said? It sounds like a blanket statement to me.

I have David's source right here. He wrote it himself.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 26 novembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[Linkenski]

Well, now I'll know to never refer to a TVTropes page in future assignments during my studies.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Linkenski wrote...

Well, now I'll know to never refer to a TVTropes page in future assignments during my studies.

Well it's fine to use it as an example or meaning to some point you're making, so long as you don't use it as a credible source.

It's more like a visual for an argument, not a source.

[CynicalShep]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David still hasn't explained how his conventional victory plan is going to work.

I got this: Mandalorian crusade. Mandalorians decide to invade "our" galaxy before roflstomping the Republic. They clash with the Reapers and start mauling each other and generally having a good time. Then "we" HEROICALLY wipe out the remains and win the war. You don't have to touch ME or ME2 or use magical devices like the big Reaper killing microphone. If you think it's too easy and want more struggle and sacrifice you can always have the true Sith invade from the Unknown Regions and wipe everybody out while we're celebrating our unlikely victory. That, however, will hurt meaningful heroism because losing a war is unheroic. 
Either that or we find the Star Forge. It would feed of renegade interrupts.

Modifié par CynicalShep, 26 novembre 2013 - 07:15 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Linkenski wrote...
Just what I was thinking as well. David, you're not an authority and I'd like to see some kind of source if you claim what you're saying is a supposed absolute truth. Is it something another narrative theorist has said? It sounds like a blanket statement to me.

I have David's source right here. He wrote it himself.

http://tvtropes.org/...859-1&q=asspull

All it takes to be an expert is to register an account with TV Tropes. Cool!

[dreamgazer]

TVTropes works best as a dictionary, not an encyclopedia.

[PinkysPain]

tickle267 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David still hasn't explained how his conventional victory plan is going to work.

 SPACE MA- oh never mind.

If that's the only possible answer I really wouldn't mind that much ... I can a stomach a lot more contrivance in an ending I do like than in an ending I don't like.

The ending to TTGL is just stupid ... and glorious. The ending to ME3 is just stupid ... and obnoxious.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 26 novembre 2013 - 07:10 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Linkenski wrote...
Just what I was thinking as well. David, you're not an authority and I'd like to see some kind of source if you claim what you're saying is a supposed absolute truth. Is it something another narrative theorist has said? It sounds like a blanket statement to me.

I have David's source right here. He wrote it himself.

All it takes to be an expert is to register an account with TV Tropes. Cool!

I Know! I made an account and am writing Liara's entry on plot armor right now!

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 26 novembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[CronoDragoon]

PinkysPain wrote...
The ending to TTGL is just stupid... and glorious. The ending to ME3 is just stupid... and obnoxious.

I find almost the entirety of TTGL obnoxious, especially the ending. But at least that means it has narrative consistency eh!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

TVTropes works best as a dictionary, not an encyclopedia.

I use it as a visual aid for a concept or idea I'm trying to get across.

[SwobyJ]

t_skwerl wrote...

Contrivance and luck. Damn.

"Hey, guys! We can't go through the Omega 4 relay because we don't have a Reaper IFF!"
"Guess what? I know where one is!"

Yeah, we can do this all day... week, month, year.

Of course Illusive Man would know where an IFF is.

[Linkenski]

More like oh, guess what, here's a derelict reaper that isn't Sovereign right here in the milky way galaxy. It's not like there would've been a huge fuzz over this considering it's been hanging here for 50.000 years probably. But whatever, it has the IFF, "just what we needed!"

[SwobyJ]

Linkenski wrote...

More like oh, guess what, here's a derelict reaper that isn't Sovereign right here in the milky way galaxy. It's not like there would've been a huge fuzz over this considering it's been hanging here for 50.000 years probably. But whatever, it has the IFF, "just what we needed!"

Yeah. Interesting, that.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Robosexual wrote...

It never.

If it did I would have gotten over it well over a year ago and done something more productive with my time, let alone almost 2 years after the game came out

Almost. Two. Years.

What are you btching about? This is a FORUM about the games, people are going to complain about what they please. 

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 26 novembre 2013 - 10:52 .

[Lyrandori]

When it started.

[DukePhoenix]

The entire Priority: Earth mission was weak, but I remember my first "OH, COME ON" was when the plan was to bum rush a beam the Reapers themselves put there that could've easily led to a vat of acid for processing... and that they couldn't remotely shut off themselves? What?