407 réponses à ce sujet

[Rasofe]

Obadiah wrote...

knucks360 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

I always thought it was good. The original ending was one of those the-story-never-ends type of finales which I understood.

Reaper War ended, Shep died, done.

@Barquiel Hell, I liked the ending of NWN2 as well. That's when the delicate sad intro tune for the game suddenly made sense.

Technically, Shepard can still live in the original ending if you boosted your score with the multiplayer; it's just left way higher up in the air than in the EC. Still, I hated that it was just so abrupt. Everyone's stranded, the MEU is left what seems to be in permanent ruin no matter what, the end. Blerrrrgh.

I don't think that's entirely true about everyone being stranded. In the ending cutscene,the Citadel gets rebuilt,as do the mass relays I believe as you can see certain characters that fought on earth back on their home planets(Wrex,Samara).

My interpretation of the original ending was that the crew was stranded, and the stargazer scene took place on that same planet hundreds of years afterwards in a new civilization that was forming that had not yet achieved intra-galactic flight. ME3's ending was effectively the end of the current cycle and a new one would begin without the Reapers and the Mass Relays.

Sure, there wasn't much detail on it, but it looked like the crew survived the crash and made a home for themselves. I thought it was elegant and beautiful.

Except that neither Joker nor Tali are capable of surviving for a long time in wild environments. You met that Quarian on Gei Hinnom? That wasn't pretty.

[Iakus]

Rasofe wrote...

My interpretation of the original ending was that the crew was stranded, and the stargazer scene took place on that same planet hundreds of years afterwards in a new civilization that was forming that had not yet achieved intra-galactic flight. ME3's ending was effectively the end of the current cycle and a new one would begin without the Reapers and the Mass Relays.

Sure, there wasn't much detail on it, but it looked like the crew survived the crash and made a home for themselves. I thought it was elegant and beautiful.

Except that neither Joker nor Tali are capable of surviving for a long time in wild environments. You met that Quarian on Gei Hinnom? That wasn't pretty.

Garrus wouldn't last long either, being dextro and all.

Modifié par iakus, 25 novembre 2013 - 06:31 .

[shodiswe]

Launching that nuke at the reaper destroyer that was carrying a giant AA gun on the first priority earth mission.

I kind of accepted it but it feelt a little cheap.

The turret defence at the FOB was so dissapointing given that it didn't really matter if you shoot the husks or not. It should have made a difference. There should have been an objective, something of importance to protect... Like maybe survivors or a survivor from that armored transport, possibly with critical intel. Then what you did and your skill would have mattered if it had been possible for them to die by failing them, thereby loosing critical intel at the same time.
The loss of the intel could have resulted in an early loss of a strike team.(One of your war assets)

Later, as I ran the gauntlet from the FOB to the beam it constantly feelt like it was mostly zombie shoting, I missed having actions and input and possibilities like on Virmire. Taking out enemy air support, allarms, communications or sensors.
Helping people out or making choices.

TIM, I can accept that part. Even if the control he exerted was kind of weird.

The Catalyst and the delivery of the "choices" left a lot to be desired, both from the delivery, desing and drama. It was just Shepard and that glowing AI hologram that had created the Reapers.. It told you your choices, there was minimal feedback from other chocies, you just stood there alone talking to a hologram while bleading to death. People have actualy sugested worse endigns but it wasn't good imo.

When I played Priority earth for the first time I remember the point where I was closing in on the Beam, before Shepard got blasted by Harbinger...
"Maybe this is where it gets more interesting! " were my thoughts, because I realized I was actualy starting to loose interest in all the Zombie killing.
Then Shepard started limping. The rest was kind of Mediocre like the rest of Priority Earth. Which really feels wrong for a game like Mass Effect. It could have been so much better!

Modifié par shodiswe, 25 novembre 2013 - 06:35 .

[Obadiah]

iakus wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

My interpretation of the original ending was that the crew was stranded, and the stargazer scene took place on that same planet hundreds of years afterwards in a new civilization that was forming that had not yet achieved intra-galactic flight. ME3's ending was effectively the end of the current cycle and a new one would begin without the Reapers and the Mass Relays.

Sure, there wasn't much detail on it, but it looked like the crew survived the crash and made a home for themselves. I thought it was elegant and beautiful.

Except that neither Joker nor Tali are capable of surviving for a long time in wild environments. You met that Quarian on Gei Hinnom? That wasn't pretty.

Garrus wouldn't last long either, being dextro and all.

How do you know the planet was amino acid based and not dextro? Or that there are not other problems with the planet's biosphere? But that's beside the point. The crew still have omni tools, along with their own capabilities, and would begin solving some of these and other problems on their own.

Give the crew some credit.

[Rasofe]

Omni-tools do not manufacture brittle-bones disease meds. And no biosphere ever has both types of chirality. More importantly, Tali's suit just needs to run out of battery power and her filters will shut down, after which she will suffocate one way or the other.

[Iakus]

Obadiah wrote...

How do you know the planet was amino acid based and not dextro? Or that there are not other problems with the planet's biosphere? But that's beside the point. The crew still have omni tools, along with their own capabilities, and would begin solving some of these and other problems on their own.

Give the crew some credit.

I am operating on the assumption that the planet is capable of sustaining life for levo-protein species like humans and asari.  If the planet can't sustain life for them either, the matter is moot.

I seriously doubt omnitools can create substances as complex as edible substances for any species. 

[Obadiah]

Rasofe wrote...

Omni-tools do not manufacture brittle-bones disease meds. And no biosphere ever has both types of chirality. More importantly, Tali's suit just needs to run out of battery power and her filters will shut down, after which she will suffocate one way or the other.

And you are free to go on and on about how bleak my version of the ending if that's what you want to do. There were endless threads about how civilizations were doomed and whatnot, all of which I thought were crap, and as useful as debating how the Normandy went from orbit to an evac at the Conduit. To me, that gave the survivors of the Reaper War no credit, and was really just part of an ongoing agenda to constantly demand and complain and try to get Bioware to write a different ending.

[Rasofe]

I'm just saying with the EC we avoid all of it because the Normandy gets up again, turns around, and returns to the rest of the world. Synthesis is still belony, though.

[Iakus]

Obadiah wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Omni-tools do not manufacture brittle-bones disease meds. And no biosphere ever has both types of chirality. More importantly, Tali's suit just needs to run out of battery power and her filters will shut down, after which she will suffocate one way or the other.

And you are free to go on and on about how bleak my version of the ending if that's what you want to do. There were endless threads about how civilizations were doomed and whatnot, all of which I thought were crap, and as useful as debating how the Normandy went from orbit to an evac at the Conduit. To me, that gave the survivors of the Reaper War no credit, and was really just part of an ongoing agenda to constantly demand and complain and try to get Bioware to write a different ending.

Probably because the endings sucked

Sorry, but given the known facts about the Mass Effect universe, certain very dark conclusions are very easilly reached given what we were shown.  There were, and still are, very good reasons to complain.

[Rasofe]

What dark conclusion do we reach with the EC?

[Linkenski]

In my opinion the EC certainly made the ending into something more digestible because I was actually able to confirm that the Catalyst was not just purely symbolic/nonexistent or some kind of god, but was intentionally written to be flawed (by that point in time), so I don't think there's any "dark conclusion" to anything really, and I even thought the original one was bittersweet because I never really thought you doomed the galaxy when I saw the Relays blowing up. I understood the intent that they weren't blown up supernova like, as in Arrival DLC.

No the problem they never fixed was the thematic mess in the endings that the most ideal ending is the one that stands most opposite to what the whole story has been about and in that the endings will always suck even though the idea of the Catalyst makes sense and does make the synthetic vs. organic valid as a "main theme". It still feels contrived and the ending still makes you feel cheated, and I hate to say it, but going into ME3, I was expecting it to be a perfect conclusion to the trilogy and not a left-field kind of one.

I know that's too much to expect but one of the key factors in why I love ME1 and ME2 so much is because their final missions/endings are so satisfactory. ME2's was a bit like "Oh well.. so that was ME2, I guess?" because it didnt' really move the overall plot anywhere because it was one big sidestory essentially, but it was still satisfactory because your choices mattered a good deal and just launching the final mission was like poking the domino pieces and see if it would get full-circle. It had me at the edge of my seat and because the ending was largely consistent with what the beginning goal of ME2 was it was very gratifying.

ME3 is just... God, they really should've just played it safe instead so all these endless threads could've been avoided.

[dreamgazer]

Linkenski wrote...

ME3 is just... God, they really should've just played it safe instead so all these endless threads could've been avoided.

What does "playing it safe" look like to you?

[SlottsMachine]

dreamgazer wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

ME3 is just... God, they really should've just played it safe instead so all these endless threads could've been avoided.

What does "playing it safe" look like to you?

I don't know.... This?

[Rasofe]

Link, I think I agree with you.
@Gazer
He means by playing it safe as in not introducing Synthesis and making it sound like the best option.

But if either of you would like to know how Leviathan DLC does allow for thematic consistency that would make the endings more satisfying, feel free to check out the Spiral Coils Theory. As long as we can forego the fact that Bioware seemed to intent Synthesis to be the best ending, I think it holds up well.

[KaiserShep]

knucks360 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

I always thought it was good. The original ending was one of those the-story-never-ends type of finales which I understood.

Reaper War ended, Shep died, done.

@Barquiel Hell, I liked the ending of NWN2 as well. That's when the delicate sad intro tune for the game suddenly made sense.

Technically, Shepard can still live in the original ending if you boosted your score with the multiplayer; it's just left way higher up in the air than in the EC. Still, I hated that it was just so abrupt. Everyone's stranded, the MEU is left what seems to be in permanent ruin no matter what, the end. Blerrrrgh.

I don't think that's entirely true about everyone being stranded. In the ending cutscene,the Citadel gets rebuilt,as do the mass relays I believe as you can see certain characters that fought on earth back on their home planets(Wrex,Samara).

This is only in the extended cut epilogue. The original ending had no details at all. Basically, it's reapers either live or die, and the entirety of the MEU is left in ruin, punctuated by an irritatingly hokey mini-epilogue after the credits with stargeezer, which thankfully, is no longer really connected to the endings. The thematic tomfoolery going on with the galactic reset/garden of Eden thing in the Normandy's crash only gets worse in the leaps of logic with the entire crew being back on the ship, when they really should have still been on earth helping to fight in London, which makes it unfortunate that it couldn't be erased in the revised ending, and simply have Joker actually follow Hackett's orders and go to the rendezvous point like the other ships did (best pilot in the fleet, you had one job!).

[Iakus]

Rasofe wrote...

What dark conclusion do we reach with the EC?

1) Synthetic holocaust
2) Reapers that stick around to "guide" the other races
3) Synthesis is forced on every man, woman, child, tree, blade of grass, pyjack...

[KaiserShep]

Don't forget the potential for the reapers to subjugate the other races as well in renegade control.

Technically, "synthetic holocaust" would still be true even if it was confined strictly to the reapers, but either way, I guess I feel glad that the synthetic holocaust would give me nary a twinge of regret when it comes to killing the real enemy.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 novembre 2013 - 09:26 .

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

Don't forget the potential for the reapers to subjugate the other races as well in renegade control.

Technically, "synthetic holocaust" would still be true even if it was confined strictly to the reapers, but either way, I don't have a problem with that. Reaper omelets require lots of eggs.

The Reapers are the agressors.  But the holocaust means killing all synthetics, everywhere.  Whether they were agressors, neutral parties, or even allies.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

AlanC9 wrote...

I do consider leaving such an argument out to be a mistake. The PC in an RPG should be allow to fail at stuff if it's in character to make the attempt. I strongly supported adding Refuse for exactly this reason.

For me, it's not about the PC being able to fail at stuff so much as my Shepard was able, throughout the trilogy, to call people out on their BS. ME3's conclusion could at least have served as a great conversation about the nature of conflict being inevitable, but since Bioware decided to incapacitate Shepard, they went with the approach of portraying an insane AI as sane.

[KaiserShep]

iakus wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Don't forget the potential for the reapers to subjugate the other races as well in renegade control.

Technically, "synthetic holocaust" would still be true even if it was confined strictly to the reapers, but either way, I don't have a problem with that. Reaper omelets require lots of eggs.

The Reapers are the agressors.  But the holocaust means killing all synthetics, everywhere.  Whether they were agressors, neutral parties, or even allies.

I understand that, and for me, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much I liked the geth and EDI (I like EDI quite a lot), I would kill them all without a second's hesitation if it meant moving the galaxy entirely out of the reapers' shadows. Frankly, the only way I would really have been given serious pause on the issue is if it meant the extinction of the human race instead.

[KaiserShep]

StreetMagic wrote...
Yeah, not sure why that is. I truly must be an organic supremacist. I feel terrible (in a realistic way) if I kill the Rachni queen or sabotage the Genophage and shoot Mordin and Wrex, but not so much the Geth and EDI. I'm just going to deal with the consequences, if any.

I know that I am. Synthetics simply do not hold the same value to me as organics in general. I would not go out of my way to destroy the synthetics, but I would do so if I felt it was for a good cause (doesn't get much better than killing every reaper in existence). Of course, I would consider EDI more valuable than certain organic individuals (if EDI and Elias Kelham were about to be hit by a bus, I'd save EDI every time). But then again, in the case of the ending decision, the only reason I'm even weighing the lives of synthetics over organics is because of their tacked-on consequence to picking destroy, but I can name a handful of races I would have even less thoughts about wiping them out to the same effect. A galaxy without vorcha? Whatever. Without yagh? lol, OK! Without raloi? Heck never even knew em.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 novembre 2013 - 09:46 .

[jstme]

I'd love to say that it started at priority Earth and that Catalyst bit magnified it,but frankly for the first time i did not concentrate on this since i waited for something Mass Effective to suddenly happen and turn it all around.
Only when red circles that looked like relays explosions with all the connotations started to pop on galaxy map and those (suddenly) cowards Joker and co started their run toward ...somewhere it hit me. This is the end to the awesome trilogy and it is AWFUL.

Modifié par jstme, 25 novembre 2013 - 09:40 .

[Rasofe]

iakus wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Don't forget the potential for the reapers to subjugate the other races as well in renegade control.

Technically, "synthetic holocaust" would still be true even if it was confined strictly to the reapers, but either way, I don't have a problem with that. Reaper omelets require lots of eggs.

The Reapers are the agressors.  But the holocaust means killing all synthetics, everywhere.  Whether they were agressors, neutral parties, or even allies.

Casualties. I could've had them destroyed on Rannoch, but that would be a footshot. The future of the galactic life is still assured. In the end, a mired but grateful Quarian race, just as a de-militarised but grateful and cured Krogan race are all additional benefits to humanity. Quarian-Geth cofunction could've resulted in a superpower that would surpass human dominance after the war, so the Geth's destruction is a fortunate outcome.
The only true loss is EDI. But Shepard had already lost friends and made this gambit before. This may just be the only time they pulled the trigger.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 09:51 .