70 réponses à ce sujet

[Angrywolves]

Loghain knew. He was just too paranoid to care.

[Br3admax]

And how do you know this for sure? There was nothing to suggest that this was a true Blight except for a few nightmares.

Modifié par Br3ad, 27 novembre 2013 - 01:44 .

[Mr.House]

If Duncan was you know, less secret about this then Loghain might have took the threat much more serious because looking at his pov, it was just a big horde not a blight. Duncan should have went to the deep trenches to confirm it instead of dicking around.

[superdeathdealer14]

Some secrets just have to be kept

[Angrywolves]

how do know br3ad.
Laidlaw admits there are a lot of mysteries in the game they need to reveal. Maybe we'll find out things from DAO we didn't know including stuff about Maric, Loghain, and Ostagar. shrugs.

[Afro_Explosion]

You forgot the Grey Wardens deepest darkest secret: cupcakes

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I can understand the need for some secrecy, for instance if everyone new about the ritual for becoming a Grey Warden, no one would become one or people would not interact with them. I also understand why the would chose to keep Corephus a secret, tbh the should have kept him a secret from the majority of the wardens too.

[ladyiolanthe]

Silfren wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Didn't David Gaider say that the Grey Wardens didn't know the origin of Broodmothers until the Hero of Ferelden found out? Admittedly that doesn't really make sense to me but still...

He did indeed, I just read that post yesterday. He said that Wardens were aware of broodmothers but not of how they came to be.

What's weird is that in the same post Gaider indicates that he himself had never considered the idea of female Wardens being dragged off to become broodmothers, which is mind-boggling. Given how often the point is raised that there have never been very many women in the ranks of Grey Wardens, I think most people had assumed that THAT was the reason for it, since it would make sense. (Actually it wouldn't, because you'd think that Wardens would have a strict no-women policy if there was a significant risk of such women being twisted into broodmothers). Though I would think that the notorious Grey Warden infertility might be a way of getting around it.

I'm not sure that Grey Warden infertility would prevent a female Grey Warden from becoming a fecund Broodmother. The ritual described by Hespith mentions force-feeding the women darkspawn flesh and the flesh of male elves/dwarves/humans/qunari too. So the Joining Ritual, in which the wardens drink a cocktail that includes such delightful ingredients as darkspawn blood, seems to me to already kind of be one step down the path to becoming a Broodmother. Also, I seem to remember that David Gaider has explained that Broodmothers basically become organic life-producing factories and that's how darkspawn are made... It's not like your usual sexual reproduction. It's plain that a lot of mutation occurs since the Broodmothers grow tentacles, multiple abdominal proleg-like things (which look like breasts) etc. So I'm not certain that whatever renders a female warden infertile might not actually be the earliest stages of darkspawn mass production ability. Blechh!

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 29 novembre 2013 - 05:14 .

[ladyiolanthe]

DinoSteve wrote...

I can understand the need for some secrecy, for instance if everyone new about the ritual for becoming a Grey Warden, no one would become one or people would not interact with them.

I often wonder about this.  I think some people would still sign up even if they knew all the drawbacks, similar to the Dead Legion. You know you're going to die, but you have a chance to save a lot of lives, bring honour to your family, etc.

[metatheurgist]

ladyiolanthe wrote...
I often wonder about this.  I think some people would still sign up even if they knew all the drawbacks, similar to the Dead Legion. You know you're going to die, but you have a chance to save a lot of lives, bring honour to your family, etc.

While I think that some people would sign up even if the truth were known (even serial killers have groupies), I don't think you can compare the Legion of the Dead to the Wardens. The Legion of the Dead is just their version of the French Foreign Legion and that obviously gets signups without mystical threat of death hanging over the world/society/individuals.

[Face of Evil]

Joining the Legion of the Dead at least confers some benefit. Dwarves who join the Legion are absolved of crimes and prevent shame from being cast on their house. Sure, you'll die, but at least your death will have meaning.

There is no personal benefit to joining the Grey Wardens; there's a tiny bit of prestige, but that hardly weighs against the shortened lifespan and lifetime of nightmares.

[Demx]

mx_keep13 wrote...

You forgot the Grey Wardens deepest darkest secret: cupcakes

It's how they get the Qunari to join.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Funny how Duncan gets treated with such reverence and respect in the prologue, for being a Grey Warden. You, on the other hand, get nothing but contempt and disdain. Everyone's respect for the Wardens vanished in the blink of an eye.

[sylvanaerie]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Funny how Duncan gets treated with such reverence and respect in the prologue, for being a Grey Warden. You, on the other hand, get nothing but contempt and disdain. Everyone's respect for the Wardens vanished in the blink of an eye.

That's courtesy of Loghain's spin doctoring/slander saying the GWs conspired with the darkspawn and Orlais to kill Cailan.  Anyone in the game with more than 2 brain cells firing in their noggin disbelieves such slanderous drivel.  

[Angrywolves]

I don't know how much thinking ahead the DA team did or Gaider did. Was DAO suppose to be a franchise or a stand alone booted into a franchise ?
I don't know . The retconning seems to indicate a lack of planning as someone else pointed out. Not thinking where broodmothers come from is another indication of lack of forethought. Not being critical . Maybe Gaider needs somebody , Green Ronin or somebody to review the games, books, and comics, look for gaps, unanswered questions, stuff like that and make him aware of them. shrugs.

[Gervaise]

The Grey Warden secrecy thing was in a way essential to the plot of DAO because our Warden operated largely in ignorance and only found out as the game progressed.

In reality though it seems strange that Duncan did not make more of his recruits aware of what would be needed to kill the archdemon, so that even if he assured them that he would make the killer blow, if anything happened to him, they would know how important it was for another of them to step into the breach. Then again, it seems strange that he would risk almost his entire force on the front line when the archdemon hadn't even made an appearance, yet he claimed he was convinced this was a true blight. And since he deliberately held back two of his recruits, it would have made sense to both tell them, in case anything went wrong, and pass on the information needed for future joinings. This is why it is wise not to examine the plot too closely as the moment you start asking questions, you realise that there aren't satisfactory answers.

There are often contradictions in the storyline though. By the time of the Landsmeet Anora is apparently aware that the joining is often fatal and yet she has no Grey Warden connection apart from her dead husband's obsession with them. Clearly the majority of people are not aware of this fact because Nathaniel's family had no idea what happened to his grandfather and thought he had simply abandoned them, but he comes to realise he probably died in the joining. However, in Awakening the seneschal of the keep performs the joining ritual, even though he is not himself a Grey Warden. And of course there is Flemeth who seems to know a great deal about the Wardens and their secrets.

With regard to the broodmothers, I seem to recall that the Warden was the first to bring this information to light, probably because it is intimated that we go far deeper into the Deep Roads than anyone else has before and lived to tell the tale. Once this has been discovered, it is likely it is information that would not have been kept secret, from the dwarves at least, and this is why the Legion of the Dead are now committed to hunting them down.

[In Exile]

Gervaise wrote...
In reality though it seems strange that Duncan did not make more of his recruits aware of what would be needed to kill the archdemon, so that even if he assured them that he would make the killer blow, if anything happened to him, they would know how important it was for another of them to step into the breach. Then again, it seems strange that he would risk almost his entire force on the front line when the archdemon hadn't even made an appearance, yet he claimed he was convinced this was a true blight. And since he deliberately held back two of his recruits, it would have made sense to both tell them, in case anything went wrong, and pass on the information needed for future joinings. This is why it is wise not to examine the plot too closely as the moment you start asking questions, you realise that there aren't satisfactory answers.

Given what we see Riordan do, the obvious explanation is that both Duncan and Riordan are idiots, and the First Warden really needs to revise his or her promotion policies because competent staff really aren't getting ahead in the Warden hierarchy. 

[superdeathdealer14]

I'm really annoyed at how once the Joining is over somehow everyone knows the Joining is fatal, your going to die after 30 or so years and reduced fertility (I don't know if the reduced fertility part is commonly known to most people, but I'm going to assume it is and the topic keeps popping up) and everyone knows you get bloody nightmares all the time. Oh and to add insult to injury upon meeting Anders in DA2 he immediately blurts out to Hawke and says "Hopelessly tainted by the Darkspawn and plagued by nightmares of the Archdemon" why the f*ck would he tell a random stanger a bloody Grey Warden secret like it was nothing.

[TheKomandorShepard]

superdeathdealer14 wrote...

I'm really annoyed at how once the Joining is over somehow everyone knows the Joining is fatal, your going to die after 30 or so years and reduced fertility (I don't know if the reduced fertility part is commonly known to most people, but I'm going to assume it is and the topic keeps popping up) and everyone knows you get bloody nightmares all the time. Oh and to add insult to injury upon meeting Anders in DA2 he immediately blurts out to Hawke and says "Hopelessly tainted by the Darkspawn and plagued by nightmares of the Archdemon" why the f*ck would he tell a random stanger a bloody Grey Warden secret like it was nothing.

Because for anders it was nothing he clearly isn't type who is bond loyalty to organization and well in his introducing story to da 2 (you have to read it somewhere) wardens betrayed him (now we must wait for pro-templars raging that anders betrayed them by breaking templars laws:devil:) and try to kill him. So i doubt that would be for him problem heh even some kind of pleasure that he can kick them saying their secrets.  

[Angrywolves]

Anders was retconned, so he's not a good example for anything.
People are fickle. Duncan had years of respect with people, the warden player is a newbie who hasn't earned respect.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Gervaise wrote...

The Grey Warden secrecy thing was in a way essential to the plot of DAO because our Warden operated largely in ignorance and only found out as the game progressed.

In reality though it seems strange that Duncan did not make more of his recruits aware of what would be needed to kill the archdemon, so that even if he assured them that he would make the killer blow, if anything happened to him, they would know how important it was for another of them to step into the breach. Then again, it seems strange that he would risk almost his entire force on the front line when the archdemon hadn't even made an appearance, yet he claimed he was convinced this was a true blight. And since he deliberately held back two of his recruits, it would have made sense to both tell them, in case anything went wrong, and pass on the information needed for future joinings. This is why it is wise not to examine the plot too closely as the moment you start asking questions, you realise that there aren't satisfactory answers.

There are often contradictions in the storyline though. By the time of the Landsmeet Anora is apparently aware that the joining is often fatal and yet she has no Grey Warden connection apart from her dead husband's obsession with them. Clearly the majority of people are not aware of this fact because Nathaniel's family had no idea what happened to his grandfather and thought he had simply abandoned them, but he comes to realise he probably died in the joining. However, in Awakening the seneschal of the keep performs the joining ritual, even though he is not himself a Grey Warden. And of course there is Flemeth who seems to know a great deal about the Wardens and their secrets.

With regard to the broodmothers, I seem to recall that the Warden was the first to bring this information to light, probably because it is intimated that we go far deeper into the Deep Roads than anyone else has before and lived to tell the tale. Once this has been discovered, it is likely it is information that would not have been kept secret, from the dwarves at least, and this is why the Legion of the Dead are now committed to hunting them down.

To me it seems the reason why the warden didn't know about the archdemon was one of timing, Duncan just didn't get around to telling him, although it does seem odd that Alistar wouldn't know.