454 réponses à ce sujet

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

It always bothered me that non straight romances would either get ignored or treated as a joke during party chat in DA:O.

[Hellion Rex]

I agree most wholeheartedly.

[efd731]

All the player related romances were scrutinized and mocked by your party members in da:2 as well. And this belongs on the origins board if that's what your complaint is based on

[Hellion Rex]

efd731 wrote...

All the player related romances were scrutinized and mocked by your party members in da:2 as well. And this belongs on the origins board if that's what your complaint is based on

The OP was in regards to bringing this idea into DAI, so it is indeed relevant.

[Statare]

Could you give examples? I'm having a hard time recalling any instance, besides Oghren, but he was supposed to be offensive, like your typical straight, male, macho husband figure in American sitcoms. Not saying any problematic moments don't exist (I can think of a few non-banter examples myself). I would just would like to know specifically what you're thinking of.

if this might help
http://dragonage.wik...Oghren/Dialogue

[Hellion Rex]

Statare wrote...

Could you give examples? I'm having a hard time recalling any instance, besides Oghren, but he was supposed to be offensive, like your typical straight, male, macho husband figure in American sitcoms. Not saying any problematic moments don't exist (I can think of a few non-banter examples myself). I would just would like to know specifically what you're thinking of.

if this might help
http://dragonage.wik...Oghren/Dialogue

To be honest, your romance options were more ignored than made as a joke. I do not think David Gaider or any of the devs would have let s/s romances options be made fun of, under any circumstances.

Modifié par eluvianix, 25 novembre 2013 - 01:09 .

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

id say it was lighthearted but it still bothered me that the only time it was brought up during party banter was when it was to provoke laughter. Eg oghren/zev & shale/zev

[Magehand2278]

I don't remember it either but then again, I didn't use oghren always thought he was just unnecessary and compared to other warriors never seemed as interesting

[Hellion Rex]

Threat300 wrote...

id say it was lighthearted but it still bothered me that the only time it was brought up during party banter was when it was to provoke laughter. Eg oghren/zev & shale/zev

Yeah, I was in a male romance with Zevran, but I never took Oghren and rarely did Shale, so I could have missed that entirely.

[Statare]

eluvianix wrote...

Statare wrote...

Could you give examples? I'm having a hard time recalling any instance, besides Oghren, but he was supposed to be offensive, like your typical straight, male, macho husband figure in American sitcoms. Not saying any problematic moments don't exist (I can think of a few non-banter examples myself). I would just would like to know specifically what you're thinking of.

if this might help
http://dragonage.wik...Oghren/Dialogue

To be honest, your romance options were more ignored than made as a joke. I do not think David Gaider or any of the devs would have let s/s romances options be made fun of, under any circumstances.

yeah I figured. The overall effect of the subject being ignored is like when you bring your s/s date to an event and watch as people dance around the subject trying to figure out your relationship with out actually asking. You can talk about it, people! It's all rather disconcerting to be treated like something you would not discuss in 'polite company'.

Isabela asking about sleeping with Anders in a s/s relationship was a good example. It's less awkward and more empowering to feel like your relationships are beeing treated similarly to hetero ones. Yet, I can see where it can go to far or perpetuate problems. If Isabela had been male, and not been envious or accepting, but been the 'typical' straight dude making a joke about passive gender roles, it could have easily gone sour.

[Usergnome]

"So, you're into elves, huh? I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl..." - Gamlen Amell

[Hellion Rex]

Usergnome wrote...

"So, you're into elves, huh? I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl..." - Gamlen Amell

Did he actually say that? I honestly cannot remember?

[aphelion4]

The straight romances were also laughed at by half of the party (hell Wynne was even condescending), it wasn't exclusive to gay romances.

[Hellion Rex]

Statare wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Statare wrote...

Could you give examples? I'm having a hard time recalling any instance, besides Oghren, but he was supposed to be offensive, like your typical straight, male, macho husband figure in American sitcoms. Not saying any problematic moments don't exist (I can think of a few non-banter examples myself). I would just would like to know specifically what you're thinking of.

if this might help
http://dragonage.wik...Oghren/Dialogue

To be honest, your romance options were more ignored than made as a joke. I do not think David Gaider or any of the devs would have let s/s romances options be made fun of, under any circumstances.

yeah I figured. The overall effect of the subject being ignored is like when you bring your s/s date to an event and watch as people dance around the subject trying to figure out your relationship with out actually asking. You can talk about it, people! It's all rather disconcerting to be treated like something you would not discuss in 'polite company'.

Isabela asking about sleeping with Anders in a s/s relationship was a good example. It's less awkward and more empowering to feel like your relationships are beeing treated similarly to hetero ones. Yet, I can see where it can go to far or perpetuate problems. If Isabela had been male, and not been envious or accepting, but been the 'typical' straight dude making a joke about passive gender roles, it could have easily gone sour.

Considering we are going to Orlais, we might see a little more openess to s/s romances.

[Hellion Rex]

aphelion4 wrote...

The straight romances were also laughed at by half of the party (hell Wynne was even condescending), it wasn't exclusive to gay romances.

That is a fair point as well.

[TeamLexana]

eluvianix wrote...

aphelion4 wrote...

The straight romances were also laughed at by half of the party (hell Wynne was even condescending), it wasn't exclusive to gay romances.

That is a fair point as well.

I personaIly can't think of a single party banter that wasn't comic relief for the hetro romances in DAO. Only one I can think of in DA2 is I think Fenris and Anders will banter that if they hurt Hawke they will kill them, maybe? I could be remembering that wrong, lol. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Instead of being make fun of, I would rather see that they have equal treatment across every LI. In DAO, you can't kiss your LI while Kaidan's romance in ME3 was cut and paste from the straight romance with missing scene and dialogues.

[Statare]

I think a part of it is how party banter functions in general. It's all about getting to the butt of some joke and can feel immature, and it can easily become demeaning. If you're making immature jokes about a subject that is sometimes treated immaturely (s/s romance) it can end up being painfully bad. In Origins especially, it was all about jokes. In DAII there were moments where they talked about situations or experiences that were funny. Situational comedy can often times be less demeaning and stereotypical.

example of a painfully bad joke in Origins (this only occurs if a male warden is in a romance with Zevran):

Oghren: So... you and the Boss, huh...?
Zevran: If by "Boss" you are referring to who I think you are, you are correct.
Oghren: Yeah... Well.... Good luck with that.
Zevran: Why, thank you ever so much.
Oghren: You might wanna...you know...keep it down though.

What is supposed to be funny? Loud (gay) sex? Oghren being uncomfortable? The Warden being the "boss"? I'm not sure.

Though DAII was not any better. If you are a male Hawke in a s/s romance and talk to Gamlen in Act 3 he makes some snide comment about not having to "ask who is the girl"....Like I get Gamlen is supposed to be a sleaze bag, but you could put more thought into the writing and not rely on tropes.

[Hellion Rex]

Statare wrote...

I think a part of it is how party banter functions in general. It's all about getting to the butt of some joke and can feel immature, and it can easily become demeaning. If you're making immature jokes about a subject that is sometimes treated immaturely (s/s romance) it can end up being painfully bad. In Origins especially, it was all about jokes. In DAII there were moments where they talked about situations or experiences that were funny. Situational comedy can often times be less demeaning and stereotypical.

example of a painfully bad joke in Origins (this only occurs if a male warden is in a romance with Zevran):

Oghren: So... you and the Boss, huh...?
Zevran: If by "Boss" you are referring to who I think you are, you are correct.
Oghren: Yeah... Well.... Good luck with that.
Zevran: Why, thank you ever so much.
Oghren: You might wanna...you know...keep it down though.

What is supposed to be funny? Loud (gay) sex? Oghren being uncomfortable? The Warden being the "boss"? I'm not sure.

Though DAII was not any better. If you are a male Hawke in a s/s romance and talk to Gamlen in Act 3 he makes some snide comment about not having to "ask who is the girl"....Like I get Gamlen is supposed to be a sleaze bag, but you could put more thought into the writing and not rely on tropes.

This is a very tricky topic. As a gaymer myself, I know how annoying that type of that type of dialogue can be in a game. And you raise a very valid point with both Gamlen's and Oghren's dialogue.  At the same time, I am more or less used to ignoring that dialogue, all the same. That of course does not excuse that kind of dialogue though.

Modifié par eluvianix, 25 novembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[Plaintiff]

^

I have no problem with gay romances being cut-and-paste from straight romances. That's the way it should be I think; there's no reason why gay romances should have significantly different content from straight romances.

But if any romance has noticeably less content than others, then yes, I'd say that's a problem.

I don't have any issue with jokes about gay romances, even mean ones, anything's better than just ignoring it. But it would be nice if the player got to respond in some way.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 novembre 2013 - 02:15 .

[Knight of Dane]

eluvianix wrote...

Usergnome wrote...

"So, you're into elves, huh? I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl..." - Gamlen Amell

Did he actually say that? I honestly cannot remember?

He asks that with male Hawke/Anders too I think. Never did that romnace myself though.

[Hellion Rex]

Knight of Dane wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Usergnome wrote...

"So, you're into elves, huh? I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl..." - Gamlen Amell

Did he actually say that? I honestly cannot remember?

He asks that with male Hawke/Anders too I think. Never did that romnace myself though.

Neither could I.

[TeamLexana]

Statare wrote...

I think a part of it is how party banter functions in general. It's all about getting to the butt of some joke and can feel immature, and it can easily become demeaning. If you're making immature jokes about a subject that is sometimes treated immaturely (s/s romance) it can end up being painfully bad. In Origins especially, it was all about jokes. In DAII there were moments where they talked about situations or experiences that were funny. Situational comedy can often times be less demeaning and stereotypical.

example of a painfully bad joke in Origins (this only occurs if a male warden is in a romance with Zevran):

Oghren: So... you and the Boss, huh...?
Zevran: If by "Boss" you are referring to who I think you are, you are correct.
Oghren: Yeah... Well.... Good luck with that.
Zevran: Why, thank you ever so much.
Oghren: You might wanna...you know...keep it down though.

What is supposed to be funny? Loud (gay) sex? Oghren being uncomfortable? The Warden being the "boss"? I'm not sure.

Though DAII was not any better. If you are a male Hawke in a s/s romance and talk to Gamlen in Act 3 he makes some snide comment about not having to "ask who is the girl"....Like I get Gamlen is supposed to be a sleaze bag, but you could put more thought into the writing and not rely on tropes.

In the case of Oghren and Zevran, I am pretty sure that banter triggers in the hetro romance as well. It's a case of Oghren being innaprioprate again, not Oghren being homophobic.

[Statare]

TeamLexana wrote...

Statare wrote...

I think a part of it is how party banter functions in general. It's all about getting to the butt of some joke and can feel immature, and it can easily become demeaning. If you're making immature jokes about a subject that is sometimes treated immaturely (s/s romance) it can end up being painfully bad. In Origins especially, it was all about jokes. In DAII there were moments where they talked about situations or experiences that were funny. Situational comedy can often times be less demeaning and stereotypical.

example of a painfully bad joke in Origins (this only occurs if a male warden is in a romance with Zevran):

Oghren: So... you and the Boss, huh...?
Zevran: If by "Boss" you are referring to who I think you are, you are correct.
Oghren: Yeah... Well.... Good luck with that.
Zevran: Why, thank you ever so much.
Oghren: You might wanna...you know...keep it down though.

What is supposed to be funny? Loud (gay) sex? Oghren being uncomfortable? The Warden being the "boss"? I'm not sure.

Though DAII was not any better. If you are a male Hawke in a s/s romance and talk to Gamlen in Act 3 he makes some snide comment about not having to "ask who is the girl"....Like I get Gamlen is supposed to be a sleaze bag, but you could put more thought into the writing and not rely on tropes.

In the case of Oghren and Zevran, I am pretty sure that banter triggers in the hetro romance as well. It's a case of Oghren being innaprioprate again, not Oghren being homophobic.

According to the Dragon Age wiki it only occurs with a male warden in a romance with Zevran. The hetero version is apparently this (never heard it myself, didn't roll a female char).

Oghren: I didn't think she'd go for an elf. / (If the Warden is an elf or a mage) Figures she'd go for an elf.
Zevran: She who?
Oghren: You and the Warden. We all know what's going on there.
Zevran: Oh? Does that make you jealous, my stout little friend?
Oghren: Me? Ha! Last thing I need is another woman in my life.
Zevran: One wife was enough for you, was she?
Oghren: Ha. Branka was only slightly more woman than I am. Bristle-chinned poetess.
Zevran: Shocking that our fair Grey Warden didn't choose you instead.
Oghren: Wonders never cease.

edit: stuff happened

Modifié par Statare, 25 novembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[Hellion Rex]

TeamLexana wrote...

Statare wrote...

I think a part of it is how party banter functions in general. It's all about getting to the butt of some joke and can feel immature, and it can easily become demeaning. If you're making immature jokes about a subject that is sometimes treated immaturely (s/s romance) it can end up being painfully bad. In Origins especially, it was all about jokes. In DAII there were moments where they talked about situations or experiences that were funny. Situational comedy can often times be less demeaning and stereotypical.

example of a painfully bad joke in Origins (this only occurs if a male warden is in a romance with Zevran):

Oghren: So... you and the Boss, huh...?
Zevran: If by "Boss" you are referring to who I think you are, you are correct.
Oghren: Yeah... Well.... Good luck with that.
Zevran: Why, thank you ever so much.
Oghren: You might wanna...you know...keep it down though.

What is supposed to be funny? Loud (gay) sex? Oghren being uncomfortable? The Warden being the "boss"? I'm not sure.

Though DAII was not any better. If you are a male Hawke in a s/s romance and talk to Gamlen in Act 3 he makes some snide comment about not having to "ask who is the girl"....Like I get Gamlen is supposed to be a sleaze bag, but you could put more thought into the writing and not rely on tropes.

In the case of Oghren and Zevran, I am pretty sure that banter triggers in the hetro romance as well. It's a case of Oghren being innaprioprate again, not Oghren being homophobic.

That doesn't negate that the comment was homophobic in nature, depending on how you view it. Even knowing that he makes the same comment to a heterosexual Warden, people would still be offended by it.