454 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

 Ok, I have found some enlightening dev quotes on the matter.

"….A player’s choices merely reveal their bisexuality if it exists, rather than defining it. Take Anders, who will reveal to a male Hawke his prior involvement with a man named Karl, but neglect to mention it to a female Hawke.

“No matter who the player is, Karl was always someone [Anders] was romantically involved with,” says Gaider. “The part of him the player is exposed to, however, is different. Anders doesn’t mention Karl to a female Hawke because Jennifer Hepler [Anders’ writer] didn’t think he would — and also because a player who prefers to think of Anders as straight is welcome to do so.”

And.... ehhhh. I still don't particuarly like it. Particuarly that last line. 

If Anders is bisexual then he is bisexual, and if somebody romancing Anders wants to think/pretend he is straight then tough luck, he's not. 

Uhhhh, this whole thing is tiring <_< For the love of god please let them go back to the Origins method and make the companions have fixed sexualities. No vague-bisexualness/playersexuality-that-apprently-is-actually-bisexuality-framed-incredibly-vaguely. Please. 

Maybe we could finally have a companion who is exculusively attracted to the same gender. I can't believe we haven't actually had one yet, LI or not... 

Modifié par EJ107, 26 novembre 2013 - 02:34 .

[sandalisthemaker]

So, 10/10 thread.

[AresKeith]

EJ107 wrote...

 For the love of god please let them go back to the Origins method and make the companions have fixed sexualities. No vague-bisexualness/playersexuality-that-apprently-is-actually-Bisexuality-framed-incredibly-vaguely. Please. 

Maybe we could finally have a companion who is exculusively attracted to the same gender. I can't believe we haven't actually had one yet, LI or not... 

Pretty much how I'd want it to go but done better than Origins

[In Exile]

EJ107 wrote...
If Anders is bisexual then he is bisexual, and if somebody romancing Anders wants to think/pretend he is straight then tough luck, he's not. 

Who gives the people they're flirting with a laundry list of everyone they slept with?

[ParkBom]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

So, 10/10 thread.

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
If Anders is bisexual then he is bisexual, and if somebody romancing Anders wants to think/pretend he is straight then tough luck, he's not. 

Who gives the people they're flirting with a laundry list of everyone they slept with?

Isabela? 

[Silfren]

EJ107 wrote...

Uhhhh, this whole thing is tiring <_< For the love of god please let them go back to the Origins method and make the companions have fixed sexualities. No vague-bisexualness/playersexuality-that-apprently-is-actually-bisexuality-framed-incredibly-vaguely. Please. 

Maybe we could finally have a companion who is exculusively attracted to the same gender. I can't believe we haven't actually had one yet, LI or not... 

Oh, yeah, please let's do this thing where people are cut off from LIs unless they play a gender they may not want to.

Or, you know, let's not.  The all-inclusive method isn't perfect but the option that maximizes players' ability to play the character they want is infinitely preferable to the alternative.

[Ianamus]

Silfren wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Uhhhh, this whole thing is tiring <_< For the love of god please let them go back to the Origins method and make the companions have fixed sexualities. No vague-bisexualness/playersexuality-that-apprently-is-actually-bisexuality-framed-incredibly-vaguely. Please. 

Maybe we could finally have a companion who is exculusively attracted to the same gender. I can't believe we haven't actually had one yet, LI or not... 

Oh, yeah, please let's do this thing where people are cut off from LIs unless they play a gender they may not want to.

Or, you know, let's not.  The all-inclusive method isn't perfect but the option that maximizes players' ability to play the character they want is infinitely preferable to the alternative.

I never said that the player shouldnt have access to every LI or that there should be an unequal number of options. I said that the companions should have fixed sexualities, which could mean any number of options/orientations. All bisexual is still fixed sexualities, as long as they are actually portrayed as bisexual, not a vague mess. 

In Exile wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
If Anders is bisexual then he is bisexual, and if somebody romancing Anders wants to think/pretend he is straight then tough luck, he's not. 

Who gives the people they're flirting with a laundry list of everyone they slept with?

Well I can't speak for everyone but I do tend to tell people I'm bisexual if I'm considering going out with them. It makes things incredibly easier in the long run. 

Now please  let me leave this thread already <_< I'm starting to wish there were no bloody LI's at all, and considering how much I like them that's really saying something.

Modifié par EJ107, 26 novembre 2013 - 02:45 .

[In Exile]

EJ107 wrote...
Well I can't speak for everyone but I do tend to tell people I'm bisexual if I'm considering going out with them. It makes things incredibly easier in the long run.

Fair enough. I tend to think sexual preference is more of a while dating disclosure. Thinking on it, the only conversation I see as a pre-dating one is monogamy (i.e., whether one is or isn't entirely monogamous). And then making sure the other person is actually okay with this. People tend to miss out on this step 2. 

[Silfren]

In Exile wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
If Anders is bisexual then he is bisexual, and if somebody romancing Anders wants to think/pretend he is straight then tough luck, he's not. 

Who gives the people they're flirting with a laundry list of everyone they slept with?

I see your point, but I see theirs, too.  It's a valid point that Anders might not want to mention Karl straightaway to a female Hawke, but at the same time it doesn't make sense that he would NEVER tell her in the entirety of their relationship.  Again, Thedas has been presented to us as a place where there is no cultural homophobia in play, so there's no reason for there to be any trepidation on Anders's part that Marian Hawke might be offended by his past relationship, and there's no reason for players to think it would make sense for Marian Hawke to have any issues with it.

It's also kind of problematic, the thing about it being possible to perceive Anders as straight due to the non-mention of his relationship with Karl.  Given that Anders is pretty blatantly open about it to a male Hawke, people who play that optoin aren't "allowed" to perceive him as straight, no, and from what I've seen, it's a certain group people playing THAT playthrough--men who play male Hawkes--who seem to have had the biggest personal problem over Anders's sexuality.  So the claim about people being able to perceive him as straight is really just nonsensical.  The people who have the option to play Anders as straight (those who, whether male or female themselves, play female Hawkes) are the ones for whom the perception isn't an issue. 

[In Exile]

Silfren wrote...
I see your point, but I see theirs, too.  It's a valid point that Anders might not want to mention Karl straightaway to a female Hawke, but at the same time it doesn't make sense that he would NEVER tell her in the entirety of their relationship.

Oh, I completely agree with you there. I think it's a very real loss re: Anders' character not to have the story with Karl presented to a female protagonist, and do think Bioware should have had it there. I just don't necessarily see it as indicative that Anders is somehow intended to be straight on that playthrough simply because he doesn't mention it. 

Even if he's, say, crazy secretive about it and doesn't mention it, it still wouldn't mean he's totally straight. 

It's also kind of problematic, the thing about it being possible to perceive Anders as straight due to the non-mention of his relationship with Karl.  Given that Anders is pretty blatantly open about it to a male Hawke, people who play that optoin aren't "allowed" to perceive him as straight, no, and from what I've seen, it's a certain group people playing THAT playthrough--men who play male Hawkes--who seem to have had the biggest personal problem over Anders's sexuality.  So the claim about people being able to perceive him as straight is really just nonsensical.  The people who have the option to play Anders as straight (those who, whether male or female themselves, play female Hawkes) are the ones for whom the perception isn't an issue.   

Again, I totally agree with your point. My intent was more to go the other way - to say that his lack of comment (for whatever reason) shouldn't be taken as proof of his sexuality. It's like kinks - just because someone doesn't share their kinks doesn't mean they don't have them. 

[Silfren]

In Exile wrote...

Silfren wrote...
I see your point, but I see theirs, too.  It's a valid point that Anders might not want to mention Karl straightaway to a female Hawke, but at the same time it doesn't make sense that he would NEVER tell her in the entirety of their relationship.

Oh, I completely agree with you there. I think it's a very real loss re: Anders' character not to have the story with Karl presented to a female protagonist, and do think Bioware should have had it there. I just don't necessarily see it as indicative that Anders is somehow intended to be straight on that playthrough simply because he doesn't mention it. 

Even if he's, say, crazy secretive about it and doesn't mention it, it still wouldn't mean he's totally straight. 

It's also kind of problematic, the thing about it being possible to perceive Anders as straight due to the non-mention of his relationship with Karl.  Given that Anders is pretty blatantly open about it to a male Hawke, people who play that optoin aren't "allowed" to perceive him as straight, no, and from what I've seen, it's a certain group people playing THAT playthrough--men who play male Hawkes--who seem to have had the biggest personal problem over Anders's sexuality.  So the claim about people being able to perceive him as straight is really just nonsensical.  The people who have the option to play Anders as straight (those who, whether male or female themselves, play female Hawkes) are the ones for whom the perception isn't an issue.   

Again, I totally agree with your point. My intent was more to go the other way - to say that his lack of comment (for whatever reason) shouldn't be taken as proof of his sexuality. It's like kinks - just because someone doesn't share their kinks doesn't mean they don't have them. 

I absolutely agree with you.  I've always thought it bizarre that people don't understand that just because they don't see or hear about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I have several bisexual friends whose particular preferences are all over the map, but people who don't know them tend to default on the assumption that they are either gay or straight, depending on who those persons are seen with.

[Hazegurl]

I will never in a million years understand people who want to know every sexual detail of their partner's life. Don't get it and I never will. The only thing that matters is that person is with you. That's it. Who cares if they had sex with 20 ppl in their lifetime or if they had sex with someone of the same gender. As long as their feelings for you are genuine and they're not trying to use you, have stds etc then it's all gravy. I honestly think it's a case of people talking way too freaking much in a relationship. I may not like Anders, but I am 100% for him never telling FHawke about Karl. Why don't he just sit her down and tell her about every sexual fantasy he's ever had and everything he's ever masturbated to while he's at it. The only reason to tell MHawke is to see if he can hit that.

[Silfren]

Hazegurl wrote...

I will never in a million years understand people who want to know every sexual detail of their partner's life. Don't get it and I never will. The only thing that matters is that person is with you. That's it. Who cares if they had sex with 20 ppl in their lifetime or if they had sex with someone of the same gender. As long as their feelings for you are genuine and they're not trying to use you, have stds etc then it's all gravy. I honestly think it's a case of people talking way too freaking much in a relationship. I may not like Anders, but I am 100% for him never telling FHawke about Karl. Why don't he just sit her down and tell her about every sexual fantasy he's ever had and everything he's ever masturbated to while he's at it. The only reason to tell MHawke is to see if he can hit that.

Anders telling Hawke about Karl isn't about him telling her every detail of his sexual life since birth.  It's about the fact that couples DO tend to tell each other about past lovers.  It's far more odd to go out of your way to hide that information, if you don't have some perceived need to protect yourself through secrecy, than to simply tell your current lover about a past one.  Anders says that Karl was his first lover, and it was a pretty big deal, apparently, and not just some casual fling that didn't mean much to him--and his having to execute Karl had a profound effect on him.   Why would he NOT mention that to Hawke at some point in their relationship?

[Chashan]

Silfren wrote...

Anders telling Hawke about Karl isn't about him telling her every detail of his sexual life since birth.  It's about the fact that couples DO tend to tell each other about past lovers.  It's far more odd to go out of your way to hide that information, if you don't have some perceived need to protect yourself through secrecy, than to simply tell your current lover about a past one.  Anders says that Karl was his first lover, and it was a pretty big deal, apparently, and not just some casual fling that didn't mean much to him--and his having to execute Karl had a profound effect on him.   Why would he NOT mention that to Hawke at some point in their relationship?

You have to keep in mind that a good portion of that relationship may very well happen off-screen in DA2, what with the time-skips of several years.

On that note, I'd rather have an axe to grind with what one of the recent comics apparently did with 'bella's past history with the Qunari when she was younger. That being all but entirely left out of the game, and then retroactively put in...

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

aphelion4 wrote...

The straight romances were also laughed at by half of the party (hell Wynne was even condescending), it wasn't exclusive to gay romances.

Yeah, Alistair thought I was crazy for being in love with Morrigan.

[efd731]

Wow, this thread blew up since the last time I looked. And my 2 cents is, character sexuality is character sexuality, leave it at that. If you want more gay or bisexual LI's you are just as bad as someone wanting more straight LI's. It's still discrimination. And if the writers choose to make a different aspect of a character visible or invisible due to player choices..... Suck it up!! They created the character, they know them best, their headcanon> your headcanon, if they think they should do something in a situation, then leave it at that.

[Silfren]

efd731 wrote...

Wow, this thread blew up since the last time I looked. And my 2 cents is, character sexuality is character sexuality, leave it at that. If you want more gay or bisexual LI's you are just as bad as someone wanting more straight LI's. It's still discrimination.

You don't have a clue what discrimination is if you think that's even remotely true.  Asking for more explicitly LGBT characters to be present in a setting where heteronormative bias allows people to presume that characters are straight until declared otherwise is NOT discriminatory. 

But that's not even what people are asking for here. 

Modifié par Silfren, 26 novembre 2013 - 03:47 .

[Dhiro]

efd731 wrote...

 If you want more gay or bisexual LI's you are just as bad as someone wanting more straight LI's. It's still discrimination.

why

[Jorji Costava]

I don't think anyone on this thread has demanded that there be more LGBT LI's (enough acronyms for you?) than straight LI's, so I don't really know what's even being discussed here.

[efd731]

Silfren wrote...

efd731 wrote...

Wow, this thread blew up since the last time I looked. And my 2 cents is, character sexuality is character sexuality, leave it at that. If you want more gay or bisexual LI's you are just as bad as someone wanting more straight LI's. It's still discrimination.

You don't have a clue what discrimination is if you think that's even remotely true. 

im not talking real life here, what  allthough in real life the lgbt community has rights struggles, in this series  of games, wanting a LI to have a certain sexuality I'm order to appeal to you makes you just self centered as the person arguing for a different sexuality. Everyone should just accept that there will be characters they cannot romance in a certain way, or get on board with full-on playersexualism(every LI being available to the player regardless of anything)

[Hazegurl]

Silfren wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I will never in a million years understand people who want to know every sexual detail of their partner's life. Don't get it and I never will. The only thing that matters is that person is with you. That's it. Who cares if they had sex with 20 ppl in their lifetime or if they had sex with someone of the same gender. As long as their feelings for you are genuine and they're not trying to use you, have stds etc then it's all gravy. I honestly think it's a case of people talking way too freaking much in a relationship. I may not like Anders, but I am 100% for him never telling FHawke about Karl. Why don't he just sit her down and tell her about every sexual fantasy he's ever had and everything he's ever masturbated to while he's at it. The only reason to tell MHawke is to see if he can hit that.

Anders telling Hawke about Karl isn't about him telling her every detail of his sexual life since birth.  It's about the fact that couples DO tend to tell each other about past lovers.  It's far more odd to go out of your way to hide that information, if you don't have some perceived need to protect yourself through secrecy, than to simply tell your current lover about a past one.  Anders says that Karl was his first lover, and it was a pretty big deal, apparently, and not just some casual fling that didn't mean much to him--and his having to execute Karl had a profound effect on him.   Why would he NOT mention that to Hawke at some point in their relationship?

I don't think it's about going out of your way to hide anything, it's about simply not telling them. There is no secret to keep. If you're past a certain age you've most likely had some sexual experience.  I personally think it's odd to tell your current lover about your past ones. Why bring past relationships into a fresh one? Let it go and move on. At least that's the way I see it. *shrugs* IMO, Neither Hawke needs to know about Karl being his first. He's obviously someone Anders cared enough to sneak into the Chantry for. There is nothing FHawke is missing out on and it's Anders's business to keep and disclose at will, lover or not. And he feels comfortable telling this info to a man he likes instead of a woman he likes. 

What purpose does Anders telling FHawke serve? Nothing but to gauge her acceptance of a past relationship. Which isn't even relevant anymore.
 
What purpose does Anders telling MHawke serve? To see if he's gay.

[Dhiro]

efd731 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

efd731 wrote...

Wow, this thread blew up since the last time I looked. And my 2 cents is, character sexuality is character sexuality, leave it at that. If you want more gay or bisexual LI's you are just as bad as someone wanting more straight LI's. It's still discrimination.

You don't have a clue what discrimination is if you think that's even remotely true. 

im not talking real life here, what  allthough in real life the lgbt community has rights struggles, in this series  of games, wanting a LI to have a certain sexuality I'm order to appeal to you makes you just self centered as the person arguing for a different sexuality. Everyone should just accept that there will be characters they cannot romance in a certain way, or get on board with full-on playersexualism(every LI being available to the player regardless of anything)

why though

[sandalisthemaker]

Hazegurl wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I will never in a million years understand people who want to know every sexual detail of their partner's life. Don't get it and I never will. The only thing that matters is that person is with you. That's it. Who cares if they had sex with 20 ppl in their lifetime or if they had sex with someone of the same gender. As long as their feelings for you are genuine and they're not trying to use you, have stds etc then it's all gravy. I honestly think it's a case of people talking way too freaking much in a relationship. I may not like Anders, but I am 100% for him never telling FHawke about Karl. Why don't he just sit her down and tell her about every sexual fantasy he's ever had and everything he's ever masturbated to while he's at it. The only reason to tell MHawke is to see if he can hit that.

Anders telling Hawke about Karl isn't about him telling her every detail of his sexual life since birth.  It's about the fact that couples DO tend to tell each other about past lovers.  It's far more odd to go out of your way to hide that information, if you don't have some perceived need to protect yourself through secrecy, than to simply tell your current lover about a past one.  Anders says that Karl was his first lover, and it was a pretty big deal, apparently, and not just some casual fling that didn't mean much to him--and his having to execute Karl had a profound effect on him.   Why would he NOT mention that to Hawke at some point in their relationship?

I don't think it's about going out of your way to hide anything, it's about simply not telling them. There is no secret to keep. If you're past a certain age you've most likely had some sexual experience.  I personally think it's odd to tell your current lover about your past ones. Why bring past relationships into a fresh one? Let it go and move on. At least that's the way I see it. *shrugs* IMO, Neither Hawke needs to know about Karl being his first. He's obviously someone Anders cared enough to sneak into the Chantry for. There is nothing FHawke is missing out on and it's Anders's business to keep and disclose at will, lover or not. And he feels comfortable telling this info to a man he likes instead of a woman he likes. 

What purpose does Anders telling FHawke serve? Nothing but to gauge her acceptance of a past relationship. Which isn't even relevant anymore.
 
What purpose does Anders telling MHawke serve? To see if he's gay.

And to also let the player know that he's available for S/S romance with MHawke.

Straight is default and assumed, so he pretty much has to be announced in some way.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 26 novembre 2013 - 04:06 .

[Hazegurl]

sandalisthemaker wrote...
And to also let the player[/b] know that he's available for S/S romance with MHawke.

True, but I like to think of it in terms of the story.