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[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

wow, this thread had 4 pages the last time i looked & now is up to 14

[Silfren]

Hazegurl wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I will never in a million years understand people who want to know every sexual detail of their partner's life. Don't get it and I never will. The only thing that matters is that person is with you. That's it. Who cares if they had sex with 20 ppl in their lifetime or if they had sex with someone of the same gender. As long as their feelings for you are genuine and they're not trying to use you, have stds etc then it's all gravy. I honestly think it's a case of people talking way too freaking much in a relationship. I may not like Anders, but I am 100% for him never telling FHawke about Karl. Why don't he just sit her down and tell her about every sexual fantasy he's ever had and everything he's ever masturbated to while he's at it. The only reason to tell MHawke is to see if he can hit that.

Anders telling Hawke about Karl isn't about him telling her every detail of his sexual life since birth.  It's about the fact that couples DO tend to tell each other about past lovers.  It's far more odd to go out of your way to hide that information, if you don't have some perceived need to protect yourself through secrecy, than to simply tell your current lover about a past one.  Anders says that Karl was his first lover, and it was a pretty big deal, apparently, and not just some casual fling that didn't mean much to him--and his having to execute Karl had a profound effect on him.   Why would he NOT mention that to Hawke at some point in their relationship?

I don't think it's about going out of your way to hide anything, it's about simply not telling them. There is no secret to keep. If you're past a certain age you've most likely had some sexual experience.  I personally think it's odd to tell your current lover about your past ones. Why bring past relationships into a fresh one? Let it go and move on. At least that's the way I see it. *shrugs* IMO, Neither Hawke needs to know about Karl being his first. He's obviously someone Anders cared enough to sneak into the Chantry for. There is nothing FHawke is missing out on and it's Anders's business to keep and disclose at will, lover or not. And he feels comfortable telling this info to a man he likes instead of a woman he likes. 

What purpose does Anders telling FHawke serve? Nothing but to gauge her acceptance of a past relationship. Which isn't even relevant anymore.
 
What purpose does Anders telling MHawke serve? To see if he's gay.

Again, though, it's not about sitting your partner down and saying "So I wanted to go over this list with you of people who used to be my lovers."  It's about the fact that this kind of background history just tends to come out in the natural course of things.  Most couples tend to know those things about one another for the same reason they know about other past events and people in each other's lives.  And Karl, from all appearances, was a pretty significant part of Anders's past, not someone he just flirted with a bit, maybe had casual sex with a couple of times.  Given how badly it hurt him to have to execute his former lover, it does seem that it would eventually come out to a Hawke, any time that there was occasion to talk about Karl.

[Silfren]

Chashan wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Anders telling Hawke about Karl isn't about him telling her every detail of his sexual life since birth.  It's about the fact that couples DO tend to tell each other about past lovers.  It's far more odd to go out of your way to hide that information, if you don't have some perceived need to protect yourself through secrecy, than to simply tell your current lover about a past one.  Anders says that Karl was his first lover, and it was a pretty big deal, apparently, and not just some casual fling that didn't mean much to him--and his having to execute Karl had a profound effect on him.   Why would he NOT mention that to Hawke at some point in their relationship?

You have to keep in mind that a good portion of that relationship may very well happen off-screen in DA2, what with the time-skips of several years.

On that note, I'd rather have an axe to grind with what one of the recent comics apparently did with 'bella's past history with the Qunari when she was younger. That being all but entirely left out of the game, and then retroactively put in...

Oh?  I haven't read all the comics but I don't mind this being spoiled.  Would you mind filling me in?  In a comment on my profile, even, so we don't spoil anyone here.

[efd731]

Dhiro 

why though

Because I think wanting/expecting a different sexuality(for a game character) simply for the sake that it appeals to you is silly regardless. There is headcanon for a reason, and bioware is writing the story not us. My last post got away from me,(apologies to all) but what I'm trying to say is that bioware makes a good mix of characters, and no specific sexuality matters in-game. All the furor is here on the BSN over a rather small game issue.

Modifié par efd731, 26 novembre 2013 - 04:35 .

[In Exile]

Silfren wrote...
Again, though, it's not about sitting your partner down and saying "So I wanted to go over this list with you of people who used to be my lovers."  It's about the fact that this kind of background history just tends to come out in the natural course of things.  Most couples tend to know those things about one another for the same reason they know about other past events and people in each other's lives.  And Karl, from all appearances, was a pretty significant part of Anders's past, not someone he just flirted with a bit, maybe had casual sex with a couple of times.  Given how badly it hurt him to have to execute his former lover, it does seem that it would eventually come out to a Hawke, any time that there was occasion to talk about Karl.

At the same time, I can understand why someone might want to bury that and not really talk about it for a long time. It's the kind of event that can be really, really traumatic. And people deal with that sort of trauma in very different ways. It doesn't, IMO, fiit Anders character at all though. 

[Plaintiff]

EJ107 wrote...
I never said that the player shouldnt have access to every LI or that there should be an unequal number of options. I said that the companions should have fixed sexualities, which could mean any number of options/orientations. All bisexual is still fixed sexualities, as long as they are actually portrayed as bisexual, not a vague mess.

Not everyone in real life has a 'fixed sexuality'. And of the ones that do, they don't all fit comfortably in your boxes.

Why does anyone, least of all a fictional character, have to consent to being labelled for your comfort and convenience?

Now please  let me leave this thread already <_< I'm starting to wish there were no bloody LI's at all, and considering how much I like them that's really saying something.

Who's forcing you to stick around? If you don't want to post, then don't post.

[Plaintiff]

efd731 wrote...

Dhiro 

why though

Because I think wanting/expecting a different sexuality(for a game character) simply for the sake that it appeals to you is silly regardless. There is headcanon for a reason, and bioware is writing the story not us. My last post got away from me,(apologies to all) but what I'm trying to say is that bioware makes a good mix of characters, and no specific sexuality matters in-game. All the furor is here on the BSN over a rather small game issue.

Do you think it's 'silly' for people to ask for other particular gameplay features that appeal to them, such as overhead cameras or crafting systems?

[efd731]

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...

[quote]efd731 wrote...

[quote]Dhiro 

why though

[/quote]
Do you think it's 'silly' for people to ask for other particular gameplay features that appeal to them, such as overhead cameras or crafting systems?

[/quote]

okay, not seeing the parallel. One affects the entire game, one is a system for creating items, one is an aspect of a character. Also, what exactly are your views on LI sexuality? (Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious)

Modifié par efd731, 26 novembre 2013 - 04:58 .

[Hazegurl]

Silfren wrote...
Again, though, it's not about sitting your partner down and saying "So I wanted to go over this list with you of people who used to be my lovers."  It's about the fact that this kind of background history just tends to come out in the natural course of things.  Most couples tend to know those things about one another for the same reason they know about other past events and people in each other's lives.  And Karl, from all appearances, was a pretty significant part of Anders's past, not someone he just flirted with a bit, maybe had casual sex with a couple of times.  Given how badly it hurt him to have to execute his former lover, it does seem that it would eventually come out to a Hawke, any time that there was occasion to talk about Karl.

Well I can understand running into an ex etc. And even then the current lover doesn't need to know much except their name and that you were involved with them. Nothing more nothing less. Yes Karl was important to Anders, that doesn't mean he HAS to disclose the intimate details of his relationship to FHawke. Karl was important, it hurt him to kill him etc. FHawke doesn't need to know they were sexually involved to understand that.  

It doesn't, IMO, fiit Anders character at all though. 

Well, considering that Anders is running the long con on both Hawkes I think it fits his character. He's proven that he has no problems withholding info.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 26 novembre 2013 - 05:04 .

[Plaintiff]

efd731 wrote...
okay, not seeing the parallel. One affects the entire game, one is a system for creating items, one is an aspect of a character. Also, what exactly are your views on LI sexuality? (Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious)

The parallel is that they are all requests that derive from personal preference, and so they are all selfish. If someone believes a particular addition would make the game more fun for them, what harm is there in simply asking for it?

I think all LIs should be available to PCs of any gender. I don't particularly care how that's acheived.

[efd731]

Okay, then I do not have a problem with that. Total bisexuality or "player sexuality" would solve a Lot of problems. I just think that arguing for a specific sexuality in a character is sexist, regardless of which orientation that is.

[Silfren]

Hazegurl wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Again, though, it's not about sitting your partner down and saying "So I wanted to go over this list with you of people who used to be my lovers."  It's about the fact that this kind of background history just tends to come out in the natural course of things.  Most couples tend to know those things about one another for the same reason they know about other past events and people in each other's lives.  And Karl, from all appearances, was a pretty significant part of Anders's past, not someone he just flirted with a bit, maybe had casual sex with a couple of times.  Given how badly it hurt him to have to execute his former lover, it does seem that it would eventually come out to a Hawke, any time that there was occasion to talk about Karl.

Well I can understand running into an ex etc. And even then the current lover doesn't need to know much except their name and that you were involved with them. Nothing more nothing less. Yes Karl was important to Anders, that doesn't mean he HAS to disclose the intimate details of his relationship to FHawke. Karl was important, it hurt him to kill him etc. FHawke doesn't need to know they were sexually involved to understand that.

Well of course he doesn't have to.  I'm not arguing whether it's something that Anders should discuss, just that it's quite normal and natural that most folks do.  Typically it's only when there's a perceived need to hide information, whether it's fear of dismissal or something else, and whether that fear is justified or not, that someone goes out of their way to not mention something like this.   And I don't see Anders has the sort of character who would feel like that information would need to be kept hidden from Marian Hawke. 

I CAN definitely see him simply not wanting to talk about Karl, though, because it was just too painful for him.

Well, considering that Anders is running the long con on both Hawkes I think it fits his character. He's proven that he has no problems withholding info.

But on the other hand, Anders is extremely emotionally clingy and dependent, so it seems like he would be more likely to tell her about Karl, not less.  Withholding intel about Karl is a different animal altogether from his plans for the Chantry.  If anything, it would feed into his need to manipulate Hawke's emotions.

[AresKeith]

efd731 wrote...

Okay, then I do not have a problem with that. Total bisexuality or "player sexuality" would solve a Lot of problems. I just think that arguing for a specific sexuality in a character is sexist, regardless of which orientation that is.

Why?

[Dhiro]

efd731 wrote...

Okay, then I do not have a problem with that. Total bisexuality or "player sexuality" would solve a Lot of problems. I just think that arguing for a specific sexuality in a character is sexist, regardless of which orientation that is.

You don't actually know what that word means, do you

[Rinji the Bearded]

efd731 wrote...

Okay, then I do not have a problem with that. Total bisexuality or "player sexuality" would solve a Lot of problems. I just think that arguing for a specific sexuality in a character is sexist, regardless of which orientation that is.

How on earth did you come to this conclusion?

[Statare]

efd731 wrote...

Okay, then I do not have a problem with that. Total bisexuality or "player sexuality" would solve a Lot of problems. I just think that arguing for a specific sexuality in a character is sexist, regardless of which orientation that is.

hmmm. In a world where all sexual orientations are treated equally, possibly. But in a prejudiced society, especially our heteronormative society, arguing for an under-represented sexual orientation, such as homosexuality or bisexuality or aesexuality, to be represented is a strategy aimed at equal representation, so it's anti-heteronormative. It's employed to oppose biases.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Statare wrote...

hmmm. In a world where all sexual orientations are treated equally, possibly. But in a prejudiced society, especially our heteronormative society, arguing for an under-represented sexual orientation, such as homosexuality or bisexuality or aesexuality, to be represented is a strategy aimed at equal representation, so it's anti-heteronormative. It's employed to oppose biases.

Yes.  And not to mention that you literally cannot argue that heterosexuality is somehow underrepresented in video games.

[Battlebloodmage]

efd731 wrote...

Okay, then I do not have a problem with that. Total bisexuality or "player sexuality" would solve a Lot of problems. I just think that arguing for a specific sexuality in a character is sexist, regardless of which orientation that is.

I think this is more sexist.



So objectifying...

[efd731]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Statare wrote...

hmmm. In a world where all sexual orientations are treated equally, possibly. But in a prejudiced society, especially our heteronormative society, arguing for an under-represented sexual orientation, such as homosexuality or bisexuality or aesexuality, to be represented is a strategy aimed at equal representation, so it's anti-heteronormative. It's employed to oppose biases.

Yes.  And not to mention that you literally cannot argue that heterosexuality is somehow underrepresented in video games.

i never intended to say that heterosexuality was not the norm (is it still the majority?) but that regardless of which side of the argument you are on, you are biased. Say bioware did a game with all homosexual characters? Would you simply say "hah!! Suck it hetero lovers, how does it feel?"  Or "it's okay guys, we've been there too next game might be better"

[Br3admax]

That's great, how is arguing for a sexual orientation sexist? Which is not about sexual orientation by the way.

[Fredward]

efd731 wrote...
(is it still the majority?)

You're trolling right?

[Statare]

efd731 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Statare wrote...

hmmm. In a world where all sexual orientations are treated equally, possibly. But in a prejudiced society, especially our heteronormative society, arguing for an under-represented sexual orientation, such as homosexuality or bisexuality or aesexuality, to be represented is a strategy aimed at equal representation, so it's anti-heteronormative. It's employed to oppose biases.

Yes.  And not to mention that you literally cannot argue that heterosexuality is somehow underrepresented in video games.

i never intended to say that heterosexuality was not the norm (is it still the majority?) but that regardless of which side of the argument you are on, you are biased. Say bioware did a game with all homosexual characters? Would you simply say "hah!! Suck it hetero lovers, how does it feel?"  Or "it's okay guys, we've been there too next game might be better"

While I would not say, "hah!! Suck it hetero lovers, how does it feel?", because I am not in Middle School, I would not feel bad for the priviledged people for being left out. Y'all can go play the hundreds of other games written for you, or watch any of the tv shows or movies that glorify your life. Even so, there are things I might complain about, like Euro-centriciscim, pro-captialistic messages, lack of representation of people of color, etc. etc. It never ends. What can I say, I'm a greedy, anti-assumtions of normativity kind of person of color trying to be a thorn in the side of someone somewhere. (sarcasm, but not really).

[efd731]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

efd731 wrote...
(is it still the majority?)

You're trolling right?

my apologies once again, sarcasm doesn't show well via text.

[Rinji the Bearded]

efd731 wrote...
i never intended to say that heterosexuality was not the norm (is it still the majority?) but that regardless of which side of the argument you are on, you are biased. Say bioware did a game with all homosexual characters? Would you simply say "hah!! Suck it hetero lovers, how does it feel?"  Or "it's okay guys, we've been there too next game might be better"

"It's okay guys, we've been there too"

Um.  No.  Heterosexual representation has never "been there," and never will be.  And it's not like there's not hundreds of other games featuring heterosexual relationships.  Outside of Bioware games, there's not much non-hetero representation.

So stop pretending they're somehow equal.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 26 novembre 2013 - 06:13 .

[Silfren]

efd731 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Statare wrote...

hmmm. In a world where all sexual orientations are treated equally, possibly. But in a prejudiced society, especially our heteronormative society, arguing for an under-represented sexual orientation, such as homosexuality or bisexuality or aesexuality, to be represented is a strategy aimed at equal representation, so it's anti-heteronormative. It's employed to oppose biases.

Yes.  And not to mention that you literally cannot argue that heterosexuality is somehow underrepresented in video games.

i never intended to say that heterosexuality was not the norm (is it still the majority?) but that regardless of which side of the argument you are on, you are biased. Say bioware did a game with all homosexual characters? Would you simply say "hah!! Suck it hetero lovers, how does it feel?"  Or "it's okay guys, we've been there too next game might be better"

If Bioware made a game with an all-homosexual cast, I would sing their praises from all corners of the land, actually.  And yes, part of that WOULD be to scoff at any anyone who decided to whinge about it, especially if they made ignorant comments about pandering and social agendas.  

And no, it wouldn't be "just as bad" or some kind of "reverse" bigotry.