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eluvianix wrote...
101ezylonhxeT wrote...
I can kinda see what you mean now but hopefully Bioware fixes this problem in DA3 and ME4 i just hope they don't go the DA2 way again.
Is this the whole "realism" argument?
Modifié par 101ezylonhxeT, 25 novembre 2013 - 11:20 .
To be inclusive of the homosexual audience.Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...
Couldn't disagree more. I'd like gay romances to have some different dialogue options and reactions from party members. Otherwise, what's the point really?
So don't. Surprisingly, it's possible that same-sex romance content wasn't necessarily designed with the wants of heterosexual players in mind.I have no other incentive to play them.
Do you have any non-straight friends? Did they struggle with their sexuality? If not, do you tell them that you hate them for that reason?I like how it was done in Jade Empire, where Silk Fox actually had to take some time to get used to the idea of a female player character being into her. Some actual surprise that a woman would compliment her like that. I hate this ''gay, out of the closet, 100% fine with it straight off the bat'' stance that every single playersexual character in ME and DA seems to have.
Thedas is already full to bursting with dozens of prejudices, are those not good enough for you? Are you such a big fan of prejudice and ignorance against homosexuals specifically that you need to see them in all your entertainment products or you'll deem them 'bland' and 'boring'?And I don't like when everybody in the world accepts it 100%. I get that it's some sort of utopic view that homosexuals have, that nobody in the world would raise an eyebrow, but it's far from realistic and most of all it's BORING. I guess I just like to be naughty, and total acceptance and tolerance makes it bland as hell.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 novembre 2013 - 11:39 .
Statare wrote...
Could you give examples? I'm having a hard time recalling any instance, besides Oghren, but he was supposed to be offensive, like your typical straight, male, macho husband figure in American sitcoms. Not saying any problematic moments don't exist (I can think of a few non-banter examples myself). I would just would like to know specifically what you're thinking of.
if this might help
http://dragonage.wik...Oghren/Dialogue
Yes, it's super realistic that so few people would be open to homosexual relationships in a setting where people regularly date outside their own species.101ezylonhxeT wrote...
ME3 did S/S relationships better then DA2 and was more realistic.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 novembre 2013 - 11:36 .
If treating other people with respect kills anyone's 'soul', then they didn't deserve one in the first place.M25105 wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
M25105 wrote...
So now even the npcs have to worry about political correctness?
Yup. Ain't it grand?
Political correctness kills the soul of diversity.
Plaintiff wrote...
If treating other people with respect kills anyone's 'soul', then they didn't deserve one in the first place.M25105 wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
M25105 wrote...
So now even the npcs have to worry about political correctness?
Yup. Ain't it grand?
Political correctness kills the soul of diversity.
It's more like the utlization of better language.M25105 wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
If treating other people with respect kills anyone's 'soul', then they didn't deserve one in the first place.M25105 wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
M25105 wrote...
So now even the npcs have to worry about political correctness?
Yup. Ain't it grand?
Political correctness kills the soul of diversity.
Neutering of language, the new thing today.
Your language is wrong. It should be neutered.M25105 wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
If treating other people with respect kills anyone's 'soul', then they didn't deserve one in the first place.M25105 wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
M25105 wrote...
So now even the npcs have to worry about political correctness?
Yup. Ain't it grand?
Political correctness kills the soul of diversity.
Neutering of language, the new thing today.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 novembre 2013 - 11:42 .
Comedians aren't a legitimate source for anything except their own subjective opinions. And that includes the ones that aren't screaming douchenozzles.M25105 wrote...
Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 novembre 2013 - 11:55 .
LolM25105 wrote...
Gamlen is a boss by the way, a boss that fails at managing money, but still a boss.
Gurl, you know we like to talk about the hot guys we are gonna get!JusticarFlareon wrote...
I can never understand why the romance threads always get so much traction. Just give me a cute guy, a cute girl, and a funny companion. If I get that, we good.
eluvianix wrote...
Gurl, you know we like to talk about the hot guys we are gonna get!JusticarFlareon wrote...
I can never understand why the romance threads always get so much traction. Just give me a cute guy, a cute girl, and a funny companion. If I get that, we good.
Whoops, I keep thinking Cullen is that young Templar from the Mage origin. Hm... He can fit, doe. I headcanon that he was like 18-19 in DA:O so ten years later, he's like 28-29. Still room to look young and cute.hhh89 wrote...
Cullen, Varric and Iron Bull aren't young though.
I am still holding out for the threesome option. Or maybe even the foursome!JusticarFlareon wrote...
Whoops, I keep thinking Cullen is that young Templar from the Mage origin. Hm... He can fit, doe. I headcanon that he was like 18-19 in DA:O so ten years later, he's like 28-29. Still room to look young and cute.hhh89 wrote...
Cullen, Varric and Iron Bull aren't young though.
Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, it's super realistic that so few people would be open to homosexual relationships in a setting where people regularly date outside their own species.101ezylonhxeT wrote...
ME3 did S/S relationships better then DA2 and was more realistic.
Who gives a screaming **** about 'realism'? The entire point of fiction, especially sci-fi and fantasy fiction, is that it is different from reality.
Besides which, in reality, history documents several societies where homosexuality and bisexuality were much more common and accepted. So the notion that having four bisexuals in one group of acquaintances is "unrealistic" is uninformed at best, if not outright fallacious.
Modifié par Silfren, 26 novembre 2013 - 12:40 .
eluvianix wrote...
That doesn't negate that the comment was homophobic in nature, depending on how you view it. Even knowing that he makes the same comment to a heterosexual Warden, people would still be offended by it.TeamLexana wrote...
Statare wrote...
I think a part of it is how party banter functions in general. It's all about getting to the butt of some joke and can feel immature, and it can easily become demeaning. If you're making immature jokes about a subject that is sometimes treated immaturely (s/s romance) it can end up being painfully bad. In Origins especially, it was all about jokes. In DAII there were moments where they talked about situations or experiences that were funny. Situational comedy can often times be less demeaning and stereotypical.
example of a painfully bad joke in Origins (this only occurs if a male warden is in a romance with Zevran):
Oghren: So... you and the Boss, huh...?
Zevran: If by "Boss" you are referring to who I think you are, you are correct.
Oghren: Yeah... Well.... Good luck with that.
Zevran: Why, thank you ever so much.
Oghren: You might wanna...you know...keep it down though.
What is supposed to be funny? Loud (gay) sex? Oghren being uncomfortable? The Warden being the "boss"? I'm not sure.
Though DAII was not any better. If you are a male Hawke in a s/s romance and talk to Gamlen in Act 3 he makes some snide comment about not having to "ask who is the girl"....Like I get Gamlen is supposed to be a sleaze bag, but you could put more thought into the writing and not rely on tropes.
In the case of Oghren and Zevran, I am pretty sure that banter triggers in the hetro romance as well. It's a case of Oghren being innaprioprate again, not Oghren being homophobic.
Good lawd, gurl!eluvianix wrote...
I am still holding out for the threesome option. Or maybe even the foursome!JusticarFlareon wrote...
Whoops, I keep thinking Cullen is that young Templar from the Mage origin. Hm... He can fit, doe. I headcanon that he was like 18-19 in DA:O so ten years later, he's like 28-29. Still room to look young and cute.hhh89 wrote...
Cullen, Varric and Iron Bull aren't young though.
They have people who actually believe that tripe here on the BSN?Silfren wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, it's super realistic that so few people would be open to homosexual relationships in a setting where people regularly date outside their own species.101ezylonhxeT wrote...
ME3 did S/S relationships better then DA2 and was more realistic.
Who gives a screaming **** about 'realism'? The entire point of fiction, especially sci-fi and fantasy fiction, is that it is different from reality.
Besides which, in reality, history documents several societies where homosexuality and bisexuality were much more common and accepted. So the notion that having four bisexuals in one group of acquaintances is "unrealistic" is uninformed at best, if not outright fallacious.
I wonder if the same people who insist that DA2's handling of relationships was unrealistic are the same people who complain that PoCs can't be in Thedas because there were no PoCs in the medieval ages at all, anywhere, ever, and yet are again the same people who say that we don't need "realistic" explanations for the weirdness of elven genetics or darkspawn or even magic itself, because fantasy!
Seriously, this argument works both ways. You can't use realism as an argument for the one if not also the other. But it's EXTREMELY telling, the way that people get irrationally and disproportionately upset over the inclusion of LGBT content (or PoCs, because it's the same damend argument either way). To get that upset about it says a great deal more about those person's personal agendas than anything else.
Oh lawd. Pious, you say? Sounds like we need to add Sebastian up in here!JusticarFlareon wrote...
Good lawd, gurl!eluvianix wrote...
I am still holding out for the threesome option. Or maybe even the foursome!JusticarFlareon wrote...
Whoops, I keep thinking Cullen is that young Templar from the Mage origin. Hm... He can fit, doe. I headcanon that he was like 18-19 in DA:O so ten years later, he's like 28-29. Still room to look young and cute.hhh89 wrote...
Cullen, Varric and Iron Bull aren't young though.
...I can't say my Inquisitor will be the most, eh... pious, of people, haha. :innocent:
Sebastian, Alistair, Cullen, a very holy threesome.eluvianix wrote...
Oh lawd. Pious, you say? Sounds like we need to add Sebastian up in here!JusticarFlareon wrote...
Good lawd, gurl!eluvianix wrote...
I am still holding out for the threesome option. Or maybe even the foursome!JusticarFlareon wrote...
Whoops, I keep thinking Cullen is that young Templar from the Mage origin. Hm... He can fit, doe. I headcanon that he was like 18-19 in DA:O so ten years later, he's like 28-29. Still room to look young and cute.hhh89 wrote...
Cullen, Varric and Iron Bull aren't young though.
...I can't say my Inquisitor will be the most, eh... pious, of people, haha. :innocent:
Problem being that you're projecting real world attitudes into a setting that is explicitly referred to as not having any particular bias against non-heterosexual expressions. Thedas isn't Earth; there's zero reason to assume it has earth's same prejudices.I like how it was done in Jade Empire, where Silk Fox actually had to take some time to get used to the idea of a female player character being into her. Some actual surprise that a woman would compliment her like that. I hate this ''gay, out of the closet, 100% fine with it straight off the bat'' stance that every single playersexual character in ME and DA seems to have.
No, you're still not getting it, if you say that it's not realistic and that it's boring. What would not be realistic would be for people to have problems with homosexuality in a world where no cultures taught against it. I don't see the problem here at all. If a culture does not teach that any sexual orientations outside of heterosexuality are deviant or sinful, then people are NOT going to have hang-ups against it. Discomfort with homosexuality isn't something innate to people. It is absolutely a LEARNED response.And I don't like when everybody in the world accepts it 100%. I get that it's some sort of utopic view that homosexuals have, that nobody in the world would raise an eyebrow, but it's far from realistic and most of all it's BORING. I guess I just like to be naughty, and total acceptance and tolerance makes it bland as hell.
Modifié par Silfren, 26 novembre 2013 - 12:54 .
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