393 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

AlanC9 wrote...

Chashan wrote...

True, yet that wouldn't be the only time in fiction that technology 'stagnates' for a lengthy period of time. Look at Warhammer 40k, where there haven't been any significant quantum leaps in tech for the Imperium of Man in as long a time (due to its very technophobic attitude, true, but still)..

Tech seems to have stagnated in the ME universe too, or the turians would have completely outclassed the humans in the FCW.

Wasn't it hinted in ME1 that this was partly a by-product of the Reapers' plan (back when they were menacing, coherent and not stupidly-written) to funnel organic development along certain lines? Maybe current mass effect technology is the pinnacle that it would ever reach, since they're at the harvesting stage of the cycle and it wouldn't really make sense for the Reapers to allow for technological advances past that point. 

Of course from ME2 onwards Bioware sorta subverted that principle by having new tech based on geth and Reaper salvage, which does provide a convenient lore foundation for new stuff in the last two games. 

(And on the turian/human match-up, the turians initially underestimated Shaanxi and sent just a small occupation force - it was only when more powerful human reinforcements arrived that they were going to send their whole fleet in and the Council intervened.)

[KaiserShep]

ElitePinecone wrote...
Er, no, 10,000 years is crazily too long to create a game around. WTF.

Part of the foundation of the IP is that humans are newcomers to this galactic community. We certainly wouldn't be after ten millenia.

Yeah, the newcomer bit is part of it, but by Mass Effect 3, that matter was resolved completely when the entire galaxy united to fight the reapers, and of course that it was a human being that saved them all. Even if the next game was set 20 years into the future, humanity's place in the galactic community is very firmly established.

Also, considering 10,000 years has been the entire span of advanced human civilisation to the present day, what kind of changes would happen after another 10,000? How could they even represent human cultures or nations when they'd be so utterly different after such a long period of time? What other things would have happened in the intervening thousands of years between Shepard and that date? 

Mass Effect works because the humanity of 2185 is not that different from the present day. Setting a sequel 10,000 years afterwards would make human society virtually unrecognisable. It'd be like asking an ancient hunter-gatherer to survive in a modern technological city among humans who don't act in many ways that they'd ever comprehend. 

It would either confuse the heck out of the player (if the game realistically featured a society of humans that we can't understand) or otherwise make a completely ridiculous future where everyone still speaks English 10,000 years from now and human society doesn't change over thousands of years. 

I have to agree with this. You can kind of get away with keeping cultural similarities intact with almost 200 years, but once you hit anywhere in the ballpark of the thousands, it becomes way too ridiculous.

[ElitePinecone]

AlanC9 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

It would either confuse the heck out of the player (if the game realistically featured a society of humans that we can't understand) or otherwise make a completely ridiculous future where everyone still speaks English 10,000 years from now and human society doesn't change over thousands of years. 

There's been an awful lot of science fiction that picked the latter route. If Asimov could get away with it, so could Bioware.

I don't know, I feel like people excuse a lot of absolutely godawful classic sci-fi just because it was what they read when they were young and it's been sanctified for starting the entire genre. What might've even seemed plausible then feels utterly absurd now, in some cases. 

Mass Effect probably deserves more scrutiny, because it's been very earnestly thrown around as an example of hard sci-fi but constantly does unbearably silly things for dramatic effect or cool gameplay ('magical green energy that turns maple leaves into microprocessors", as I think someone put it earlier?). When ME3 had the Illusive Man ranting about "pinnacles of evolution" and the Catalyst's new DNA (???) it was fairly obvious that *nobody* was bothering to check the script. I guess technological stagnation for ten millenia and no changes in human language are actually way more plausible than space magic powered by Shepard's essence-dust, all things considered. 

I'm just so jaded about how ridiculously the series treats science at this point that setting the game 10,000 years into the future and showing a galaxy that looks pretty much like the current one would be the kind of thing I'd want to make a fuss about. 

[EatChildren]

 I cut together a video discussing the content of this leak, a little bit of history, and why I think it's all believable. Have a listen if you've got nothing better to do: 

[SwobyJ]

I can't wait for the next game's info to come out .


And Synthesis is fine. I mean, the choice is abhorant to me, but it'll work out just fine. Cool stuff probably ahead.


EDIT: BTW the first ones to talk about 'pinnacles of evolution' were Sovereign/Nazara, and maybe Saren (I forget). It's been a concept for the series from the start. Just means 'that level of tech and/or organic advancement that seems to be the most one/a species could achieve within this galaxy or universe before expanding beyond it', or something like that.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 29 novembre 2013 - 07:15 .

[AlanC9]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Wasn't it hinted in ME1 that this was partly a by-product of the Reapers' plan (back when they were menacing, coherent and not stupidly-written) to funnel organic development along certain lines? Maybe current mass effect technology is the pinnacle that it would ever reach, since they're at the harvesting stage of the cycle and it wouldn't really make sense for the Reapers to allow for technological advances past that point. 

We must have played different versions of ME1 -- the Reapers were neither coherent nor well-written in the one I played.

Remember, the current harvest is happening centuries late. Sovereign was trying to get things going all the way back to the rachni wars. OTOH, it's conceivable that he figured out something was wrong on the Citadel and was trying to start things early. It would account for supppsed prothan superiority. But the asari have had mass effect tech for over two millenia. That's plenty of time to develop something better than mass effect technology, if there actually is something better.

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 novembre 2013 - 07:37 .

[AlanC9]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Mass Effect probably deserves more scrutiny, because it's been very earnestly thrown around as an example of hard sci-fi but constantly does unbearably silly things for dramatic effect or cool gameplay ('magical green energy that turns maple leaves into microprocessors", as I think someone put it earlier?). When ME3 had the Illusive Man ranting about "pinnacles of evolution" and the Catalyst's new DNA (???) it was fairly obvious that *nobody* was bothering to check the script. I guess technological stagnation for ten millenia and no changes in human language are actually way more plausible than space magic powered by Shepard's essence-dust, all things considered. 

It's a little late to be raising this obejction if you swallowed the existence of the asari.

[RandomGuy96]

I have a feeling Bioware's just gonna take the Fallout route and canonize the ideal ending in the case of a sequel (which seems extremely likely). Which would be EC High EMS Destroy, with the genophage cured, the quarians and geth living in peace (well, for a few weeks anyway, then the red pulse hits), and the rachni spared. The other choices won't particularly matter if this game is set one or two hundred years in the future, so they can be ignored if Bioware wants. Normally I'd object to this, but honestly, after what ME3 did with choices, I can't bring myself to care about this anymore. I've just accepted that choices mean very little in this series.

I could also see them outright retconning the whole "destroy the geth" aspect of Destroy. While I wouldn't like that (the geth never live in my games), I wouldn't really be opposed to it either, since the Catalyst did lie about at least one death (Shepard's) so he could pimp Synthesis, leaving it open that he lied about the geth too. A shame that they're just completely abandoning the whole "no games set after ME3" plan, but not exactly unexpected considering what the fans have said so far. Count me in with the small percentage of fans who wanted a spin-off. 

Modifié par RandomGuy96, 29 novembre 2013 - 08:05 .

[SwobyJ]

Only your actions will be remembered.

[mrheroboy]

Well with the rumors that I have heard about the next Mass Effect being revealed/teased at the VGAs, hopefully they confirm at least some of this info. I would love for our decisions to be in the next Mass Effect in some capacity.

[Massa FX]

If the Asari, Turian, Krogan etc... exist in the next game, it means Refuse ending is dropped.

Unless the sequel takes place in a doomed galaxy... which would suck.

[Iakus]

RandomGuy96 wrote...

I have a feeling Bioware's just gonna take the Fallout route and canonize the ideal ending in the case of a sequel (which seems extremely likely). Which would be EC High EMS Destroy, with the genophage cured, the quarians and geth living in peace (well, for a few weeks anyway, then the red pulse hits), and the rachni spared. The other choices won't particularly matter if this game is set one or two hundred years in the future, so they can be ignored if Bioware wants. Normally I'd object to this, but honestly, after what ME3 did with choices, I can't bring myself to care about this anymore. I've just accepted that choices mean very little in this series.

I could also see them outright retconning the whole "destroy the geth" aspect of Destroy. While I wouldn't like that (the geth never live in my games), I wouldn't really be opposed to it either, since the Catalyst did lie about at least one death (Shepard's) so he could pimp Synthesis, leaving it open that he lied about the geth too. A shame that they're just completely abandoning the whole "no games set after ME3" plan, but not exactly unexpected considering what the fans have said so far. Count me in with the small percentage of fans who wanted a spin-off. 

I seriously hope they just drop Shepard's story entirely and proceed as if the previous trilogy never happened.

[RandomGuy96]

I only hope that we at least get some confirmation that the characters we knew and loved from the original trilogy lived happy lives after the Reaper War. Even if it's something as small as a few codex biographies determined by a beginning of the game quiz. They can canonize everything else for all I care, as long as they canonize the ideal outcomes. Oh, and I hope that they keep the geth dead, but I know that's not going to happen.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

EatChildren wrote...

 I cut together a video discussing the content of this leak, a little bit of history, and why I think it's all believable. Have a listen if you've got nothing better to do: 

That was rather lovely, thank you. It is nice to see a non-BigGamingMediaOutlet channel that does feature the moniker of "angry" in some capacity (mostly of the incapacitating sort). There were a few things I have not heard about - the bits concerning the system of studio structure, so all in all, I call it a pleasant (and often funny) Mass Effect - themed listen to go with my Saturday morning coffee. 

I also find it rather worrying that people being civil and coherent on the internet is now something that needs to be pointed out and thanked for. Oh, the humanity.

*sips coffee*

[EatChildren]

Phoenix_Also_Rises wrote...

That was rather lovely, thank you. It is nice to see a non-BigGamingMediaOutlet channel that does feature the moniker of "angry" in some capacity (mostly of the incapacitating sort). There were a few things I have not heard about - the bits concerning the system of studio structure, so all in all, I call it a pleasant (and often funny) Mass Effect - themed listen to go with my Saturday morning coffee. 

I also find it rather worrying that people being civil and coherent on the internet is now something that needs to be pointed out and thanked for. Oh, the humanity.

*sips coffee*

Appreciate the feedback . Glad you enjoyed it.

[crimzontearz]

Not going to happen and you know it. Please get over it

Pray tell.....why not?

[wright1978]

RandomGuy96 wrote...

I have a feeling Bioware's just gonna take the Fallout route and canonize the ideal ending in the case of a sequel (which seems extremely likely). Which would be EC High EMS Destroy, with the genophage cured, the quarians and geth living in peace (well, for a few weeks anyway, then the red pulse hits), and the rachni spared. The other choices won't particularly matter if this game is set one or two hundred years in the future, so they can be ignored if Bioware wants. Normally I'd object to this, but honestly, after what ME3 did with choices, I can't bring myself to care about this anymore. I've just accepted that choices mean very little in this series.

I could also see them outright retconning the whole "destroy the geth" aspect of Destroy. While I wouldn't like that (the geth never live in my games), I wouldn't really be opposed to it either, since the Catalyst did lie about at least one death (Shepard's) so he could pimp Synthesis, leaving it open that he lied about the geth too. A shame that they're just completely abandoning the whole "no games set after ME3" plan, but not exactly unexpected considering what the fans have said so far. Count me in with the small percentage of fans who wanted a spin-off. 

Yeah i've come rather to the conclusion that picking a strand and running with it is the onlyway out of the ME3 ending disaster zone. Whether i like what they runb off with &  where to rather uncertain.

[crimzontearz]

l'll just be blunt.

Its retarded. Its lazy. Its outright ignoring galaxy changing events like the destruction of the relays and peace between the quarians and geth in favor of catering to a bunch of whiny manchildren who were given PTSD by a mediocore videogame ending. Its bad writing that is nothing more than shoving your head in the sand.

Right so you are saying Bioware us above that....really?

Ok, this is the company that thought it was OK to DA2 in less than two years for (and I quote Inon Zuhr) to make a cash grab. This is the company that thought it was OK to put an important part of the story of ME3 behind a pay wall. This is the company that thought it was OK to sell EVERY installment of their franchise as "the best entry point" of the serie (other marketing gold involves the awesome button, think like a general fight like a Spartan" and "who cares about relationships past, this is all out war" and "the Rachni will have a huge role"). This is the company who thought the original ME3 endings would go down well. This the company that implied the fan base was too dull to understand without context and proceeded to explain with retcons. This is the company that OK'd Deception and Kai Leng. This is the company that thought it a swell idea to PREVENT SENIOR DEVS to import their Shepards at work.

I am not putting much beneath them Mole.

Also I would not mind a reboot or a clean cut.

[crimzontearz]

That's it tho Morocco, you say they learned their lesson (some interviews point out to the opposite) but you have no concrete proof they did and until that I put VERY little beneath them. Sure, there was a time I would have DEFINITELY put this beneath them, but that time has past

Also, the ending sucked, their handling of it sucked, deal with it. It's not about ****ing, it's about not letting them forget it (which Bioware is good at). They can only make amends about it (as changing it would be messing with dat art) now but it appears they can't/won't/would not matter. So, better off to start with a clean slate and forget the whole faux pas.

[PinkysPain]

RandomGuy96 wrote...
Count me in with the small percentage of fans who wanted a spin-off. 

You can have a spin-off before, during or after ... so that's not saying much.

[PinkysPain]

crimzontearz wrote...
That's it tho Morocco, you say they learned their lesson (some interviews point out to the opposite) but you have no concrete proof they did

Dragon Age gives some hope in this regard, with them stepping away from the chosen one predetermined character ... even in ME3 at least gameplay wise they showed they could take a step back.

That said, making McCasey lead again on ME4 was rather dangerous on Bioware's part ... will they be able to swallow their pride and stomp all over ME3's themes (victory by sacrifice and survival by submittance) as much as they stomped over the themes of ME1 and ME2 (Shepard's big brass balls save the day against all odds)?

To make a sequel or AU McCasey have to infringe on the "artistic integrity" of the endings, because they can either canonize destroy and make the choice/sacrifice meaningless or make an AU and create a new universe which nearly everyone will just embrace as the standard one because they bolloxed up the previous one so thoroughly.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 30 novembre 2013 - 02:18 .

[crimzontearz]

Dragon Age gives some hope in this regard, with them stepping away from the chosen one predetermined character ... even in ME3 at least gameplay wise they showed they could take a step back.

That said, making McCasey lead again on ME4 was rather dangerous on Bioware's part ... will they be able to swallow their pride and stomp all over ME3's themes (victory by sacrifice and survival by submittance) as much as they stomped over the themes of ME1 and ME2 (Shepard's big brass balls save the day against all odds)?

To make a sequel or AU McCasey have to infringe on the "artistic integrity" of the endings, because they can either canonize destroy and make the choice/sacrifice meaningless or make an AU and create a new universe which nearly everyone will just embrace as the standard one because they bolloxed up the previous one so thoroughly.

Sure, what we know so far about DA:I is encouraging but at this point judgment is reserved for AFTER the game is released. But then again the "we learned our lesson but if we could go back we would not change anything" interviews are VERY discouraging, so is the fact that after the faux pas Mac was PROMOTED, and the development of ME3 is in the hands of the team who made Omega

Sorry but I am not very optimistic

[AlanC9]

PinkysPain wrote...
To make a sequel or AU McCasey have to infringe on the "artistic integrity" of the endings, because they can either canonize destroy and make the choice/sacrifice meaningless or make an AU and create a new universe which nearly everyone will just embrace as the standard one because they bolloxed up the previous one so thoroughly.

I don't follow the italed.