221 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Morocco Mole wrote...
Pot meet kettle.

I don't insult you for posting your terrible opinions. I insult you for possessing them in the first place.

It's a small but significant difference.

And looking for like-minded fetishists isn't the same as deliberately going out of your way to be awful to people for no reason.

Bioware is never going to officially say they closed the forum because they were weird and hurting the site's reputation.  But the fact it was closed over a year ago and never re-opened says all.

It's a good thing you can read the minds of the Bioware staff.

And there is no discussion in those threads outside of mindless gushing.

And now Morocco Mole gets to define what 'discussion' is.

Yes, how dare people get together to agree that they like a thing. It sounds like Hell. They should instead devote their energies to stifling discussion about minority representation, or bullying people who ask to see female characters in the marketing. That would be much better.

Gameplay and character building is generally much more important feature than romances.

No, you think it's much more important. Other people have different priorities and they're no less entitled to a discussion space for their interests than you are.

Because a subforum is on the main page, that's the whole point.

So what?

[Thomas Andresen]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The amount of quibbling and fighting in this one thread should hint that a sub forum of this nature will lead to endless conflict.

I hate to agree, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking the same thing.

[Ieldra]

Morocco Mole wrote...
I do care about the story and characters. Unfortunately, if I want to discuss the characters I am not allowed to because my opinion of said characters my go against the bizarre tribalism such threads attract. They are not discussion threads. They are circlejerk threads.

There is some of that, indeed, but the problem lies in the fact that there is only ever one thread allowed per character. When a part of ME2's fanbase created a separate forum for character discussion outside of BSN we had a lot of very interesting discusssions. Why? Because (a) people didn't feel the need to push "their" character and ( there was a subforum for every character, so threads with narrower topics didn't vanish down the forum history in no time at all.

The problem is a result of forum structure. Sure, there will always be mindless gushing and creepy stuff, but we who like more in-depth discussion could keep away from that if we wanted if only the forum structure were different. In fact, the conflict between those who liked the gushing and those who didn't was part of what triggered the forum shutdown in the ME section. If you want to know details, PM me.

There is no freedom of speech on the internet. You are bound by the rules the site owner establishes.

We live in a culture that values freedom of speech. That doesn't change because site owners can reserve the right to censor. It is generally considered desirable to let people talk, everything else being equal. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 novembre 2013 - 01:59 .

[Thomas Andresen]

Grow a thicker skin please.

This is complete and utter bull****.

Learn to be considerate and respectful.

[Ieldra]

Fandango9641 wrote...
I'm all for freedom of speech Ieldra, I just struggle with this idea that the BSN is the right place for discussions of that kind and that it's in any way reasonable to expect Bioware to moderate them. YMMV. And - to be clear - I'm not offended by any of it.

As I said in the other post, if you could moderate that stuff out of threads with a reasonable effort I wouldn't exactly complain. My problem is that it's all mixed up with stuff I like to discuss, and which I think is of more general interest, because it's usually all in one thread, and removing the whole character section seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

For instance, Topics like "Is this romance scene good?" or "Which themes does this character carry?" can be discussed in various meaningful ways, and they're of more general interest than the....well....Tali thing. I would like to discuss these things without the "gushers" getting in the way, while I also know they would be delighted to do their stuff without some "too-serious sourpusses" spoiling their fun. Throw these two groups into one thread and it's bound to explode at some point.

 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:14 .

[wolfhowwl]

Plaintiff wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

If there is a paedophile on the BSN I hope that you people have done what you can to report him/her, instead of simply using their existence as a bizarre trump card against The Romance Weirdos ™.

I'm pretty sure there's no such individual. Rather, I suspect they've taken some comment out of contet, or chosen to take a sarcastic comment literally, so they can use it as fodder for harrassment.

Oh there is most certainly such an individual and she is a very prominent member of this forum.

As for context, she made herself quite clear.

So I'll come clean: I am myself a nonpracticing pedophile.

Enough that it can qualify as pedo- instead of ephebe-.

Honestly, it's sort of vague, especially almost everything containing a picture is anime and the ages are extremely hard to discern exactly.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:27 .

[hotdogbsg]

I believe a character discussion forum is needed as its character in BW games that make them enjoyable for so many people.

Why not just have a character sub-forum with one Fan/Romance thread per character but allow for other character related threads where the 'gushing' won't be as prevalent and actual discussion can take place?

Modifié par hotdogbsg, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:26 .

[Ieldra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
There is some of that, indeed, but the problem lies in the fact that there is only ever one thread allowed per character. When a part of ME2's fanbase created a separate forum for character discussion outside of BSN we had a lot of very interesting discusssions. Why? Because (a) people didn't feel the need to push "their" character and ( there was a subforum for every character, so threads with narrower topics didn't vanish down the forum history in no time at all.

The megathreads were a big problem and probably the major offender, I agree. And if the mods had shut them down and encouraged others to make threads about a certain character, then the forum would have been a bit more successful.

I still don't see why an entire section needs to be dedicated to the characters though. The main plot forum would be more than sufficient to talk about characters.

Because characters are what carries the story, and there's usually as much to discuss about one well-made character as about a whole sequence of story events as unrelated to any characters.

Having said that, I agree that normally the story forum would be the place for that - if BSN had more threads on one forum page and a search function worthy of the term so that you could find relevants threads. I keep an 8-page list of subscribed threads because I know if I don't, I'll never be able to find them again, and I lost half a dozen of long posts which cost me some work to write until I got used to it. I can't even find threads I started once they're old enough. BSN's thread management functions are a bad joke.

[jtav]

One thing I'd like is to have some kind of space to discuss character without romance. I like Miranda, but I don't like Shep/Miranda. This means there's a lot of tension between me and the people I'm forced to hang out with, which isn't fair to anyone.

[Plaintiff]

Morocco Mole wrote...
I haven't really been awful to anyone in this thread, and have actually been trying to have a discussion about the matter.

Well that's just a lie. Your very first post in this thread wasn't an attempt to participate in anything. Your second was a rant against people who engage in 'endless gushing' and posting fanart. Like it's such a terrible ordeal to look at pictures. Which nobody is even forcing you to do.

You're not trying to have a dicsussion, you're trying to shut the discussion down. You don't want a forum for characters and romances, you've made that quite clear. Your only purpose in continuing to post is to shout down anyone who would like one.

Its a better definition that what other people seem to want.

Why? How? If your parameters for what constitutes a 'discussion' were enforced across the forum, all they would acheive is spoiling other people's fun. So what if their discussion is shallow by your standards? It's not hurting anybody.

If the worst thing I saw in this forum today was a discussion about which character people would most like to sodomise, I'd consider that a significant improvement.

They are to discuss whatever they want in groups or on this forum. If they want a hugbox where all the mean people with differing opinions can hurt their feelings they can stay in groups. If they want actual discussion they are free to make a thread here. Bandwidth doesn't need to be wasted to create yet another subforum that will clutter BSN.

I've seen what you think passes for 'actual discussion', and that's a waste of bandwidth if anything is

Don't really see your point here since I've never done that. I may have been on the opposite side of the argument at points, and have been very honest with people, but I've never said no to minorities or women in gaming or whatever you are trying to make here.

I was commenting on the general state of the forum.

I still don't see why we need an entire subforum to discuss six lines of dialog and a bad sex scene, and there's nothing stopping you from making and advertising a group like I said.

I don't see why we need a forum for one videogame series at all, but I quite like having it.

It makes for a bad reputation

With who? Bioware already makes decisions that would cause it to develop a bad reputation with any number of individuals and groups.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:36 .

[Wulfram]

The post volume in the main story forum tends to be too high at release. If you want threads that aren't "I hate the ending", "I hate Mages/Templars/Elves" or "I love/hate this party member" to have a fair chance of attracting discussion, you need to split it up somewhat.

Though maybe they could split it up differently. By chapter or something.

[Ieldra]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I'm all for freedom of speech Ieldra, I just struggle with this idea that the BSN is the right place for discussions of that kind and that it's in any way reasonable to expect Bioware to moderate them. YMMV. And - to be clear - I'm not offended by any of it.

As I said in the other post, if you could moderate that stuff out of threads with a reasonable effort I wouldn't exactly complain. My problem is that it's all mixed up with stuff I like to discuss, and which I think is of more general interest, because it's usually all in one thread, and removing the whole character section seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

For instance, Topics like "Is this romance scene good?" or "Which themes does this character carry?" can be discussed in various meaningful ways, and they're of more general interest than the....well....Tali thing. I would like to discuss these things without the "gushers" getting in the way, while I also know they would be delighted to do their stuff without some "too-serious sourpusses" spoiling their fun.  

I'm all for our having a dedicated character sub forum and enjoy engaging in the type of discussions you describe. Question is, does it make one a sourpuss to not want to see those dedicated discussion areas dominated by talk of the kind you and I don't enjoy?

Of course not, but if both sides are forced to co-exist in one thread, every side will eventually object to a perceived over-prevalence of stuff they don't like and call the opposite side by those names (the terms "mindless gusher" and "sourpuss" were both used in the less public parts of the debate preceding the ME forum shutdown).

Thus we need several *visible* threads per character to make sure that various kinds of character discussion can take place at the same time, and to make sure that these threads remain visible so that forum politics don't get in the way of the discussion. Thus, my suggestion of one subforum per character. I suggested that to the community management back then, but I guess it was too much work and they were all fed up with the character forum anyway. 

Edit:
Another solution might be several stickied threads per character, like "X romance discussion", "X non-romance discussion", and "X fun stuff". Separate threads, no extraenous posting to keep characters on the first page....

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:53 .

[Lebanese Dude]

This thread is still alive and kicking?

I don't think it's a thread that will go anywhere really... It's up to Bioware to open a new forum or not and no matter how much we discuss this, it's a futile endeavor. I sincerely doubt they'll read this thread 

Locking this thread.

O wait I can't do that.

Modifié par Lebdood, 28 novembre 2013 - 03:18 .

[Lebanese Dude]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Some people find inhaling solvents fun. Doesn't mean they should be doing it.

Irrelevant? Please don't compare physically damaging activities to forum posts.

Morocco Mole wrote...

And they aren't helping their case by catering to people who just want to have sex with their characters.

Catering? Please like to toss that word around. Unless you're an asexual person (nothing wrong with that), you're always going to have thought impulses about getting busy with someone. It's normal and natural and indicative of healthy sexual expression.

[Lebanese Dude]

Also didn't think I'd be reading the word "sodomy" today. It's been a while

[Angrywolves]

Agree the BSN is NOT the place for personal discussions of sexual nature. There are other online forums for that.
So that needs to be left out.

[BioWareMod02]

 I agree. This discussion should have ended a long time ago.