26 réponses à ce sujet

[Stakrin]

Whichever ending you picked changed the opening(even in refuse maybe a small colony of all the races managed to survive, and they are back) and this beginning expanded on the endings, do you think you would forgive not liking then in me3

[Iakus]

No. In fact, it would make me hate ME3 even more.

I despise all the endings and don't want any follow up game to touch them in any way.

[crimzontearz]

I would if they confirmed the survival of my high EMS destroy Shepard, otherwise it does not matter to me

[Br3admax]

Unless Destroy is picked, the chances of anything happening that is worth a story is close to null.

[AlanC9]

My various Sheps have picked all endings except Renegade Control, and I'll probably have that one by the time the next game ships. So this is a non-issue for me.

Edit: haven't finished my FailShep Refuse playthrough yet; point still stands.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 novembre 2013 - 04:33 .

[Linkenski]

iakus wrote...

No. In fact, it would make me hate ME3 even more.

I despise all the endings and don't want any follow up game to touch them in any way.

I agree. I simply don't have faith that Bioware could make anything good out of it, and otherwise I just don't want to dabble more in what happened in the ending. It is what it is.. a grave mistake, so I hope Bioware doesn't take the joke any further.

[Mcfly616]

Stakrin wrote...

Whichever ending you picked changed the opening(even in refuse maybe a small colony of all the races managed to survive, and they are back) and this beginning expanded on the endings, do you think you would forgive not liking then in me3

I don't need any of the endings expanded on. ME3 explained them just fine. However, the only way I will be happy with a sequel is if it imports our ending choices of ME3. I don't want them stating canon ending.


If they are set on making a sequel, they should prepare by making sure that the historical events that we uniquely shaped, are represented in the new game. Otherwise, I'd rather they go with a story in the current timeline, set before the Shepard Trilogy. Or, an AU.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 26 novembre 2013 - 07:21 .

[PinkysPain]

Stakrin wrote...

Whichever ending you picked changed the opening(even in refuse maybe a small colony of all the races managed to survive, and they are back) and this beginning expanded on the endings, do you think you would forgive not liking then in me3

ME3 multiplayer already made me forgive them for ME3. That said, as long as the single player leaves the ending behind and moves on I  can give the single player campaign a chance ...

I don't see how someone who doesn't like the ME3 endings would care how they treated the endings ... canonising one of the endings is fine by me, contriving to make them all end up in the same situation is also fine by me. I'm not invested in the artistic integrity of the endings, just get it over with ASAP and move on.

[Malanek]

I don't really want to see the endings from ME3 hand waved into one game. They are too diverse and if you really wanted your choices to matter you would be content with just exploring one of them.

[Mcfly616]

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't really want to see the endings from ME3 hand waved into one game. They are too diverse and if you really wanted your choices to matter you would be content with just exploring one of them.

umm not if you have a specific ending you always choose (I don't, but many do). I'm not sure how someone could or would be content with being railroaded into exploring a choice they never made, nor would make if they had to do it all over again.


My choices did matter. They wouldn't matter at all if the next game was a sequel that canonizes a specific ending that many did not choose.

I'm not sure what you see being "hand-waved". It's entirely possible to tell any number of stories that would work within all of the settings that the ME3 endings provide.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 26 novembre 2013 - 08:43 .

[Reorte]

Nope. They're best buried at a crossroads with a stake through the heart. To be honest even if I'd liked them I think it would be best for a new game to try to start baggage-free (maybe BW will agree and avoid any galaxy-shaking events in the next game).

[Reorte]

Mcfly616 wrote...

I'm not sure what you see being "hand-waved". It's entirely possible to tell any number of stories that would work within all of the settings that the ME3 endings provide.

It leaves you having to dodge some major components of the current ME universe though, the obvious ones being whether or not the geth and quarians are still around, and was the genophage cured. Oddly enough the actual main points of the endings are more easily avoidable than those.

[Malanek]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't really want to see the endings from ME3 hand waved into one game. They are too diverse and if you really wanted your choices to matter you would be content with just exploring one of them.

umm not if you have a specific ending you always choose (I don't, but many do). I'm not sure how someone could or would be content with being railroaded into exploring a choice they never made, nor would make if they had to do it all over again. My choices did matter. They wouldn't matter at all if the next game was a sequel that canonizes a specific ending that many did not choose.

I'm not sure what you see being "hand-waved". It's entirely possible to tell any number of stories that are would work within all of the settings that the ME3 endings provide.

Look at the alternatives.

With a prequel your choice in the prequel doesn't matter as it can't effect the previous/subsequent events. So it has to be written to not offer any meaningful choice.

If they went with a Sequel with an import...

Synthesis. Everything is synthetic and organic. Reapers are still around.

Control. God-Shep rules the galaxy. Reapers still around.

Destroy - Reapers gone. Geth gone.

Some of these can be merged back together in a convincing manner ie the Geth can be rebuilt. But most of them can't. If they went and said GodShep left the galaxy and took the Reapers with it, that isn't respecting player choice for any player who wanted their Shep to stay and rule the galaxy. Synthesis is just far too different to gloss over, having everything being synthetic and organic is a big ****ing difference. Even other factors like whether the Krogan had the genophage cured or the Quarians are wiped out are monumental moments for the galaxy that should have far reaching consequences.

I don't believe it is at all practical to merge all the different decisions and possibilities into one story. Not even close. Trying to do so does NOT respect player choice. It basically ignores it while trying to pretend it does.

They can respect these choices by leaving them to the imagination and exploring what happens with a selected set of choices. If you didn't pick tjose things does it really matter? You are not playing as Shepard anymore. You get to see what your Shepard avoided.

[AlanC9]

Mcfly616 wrote...

umm not if you have a specific ending you always choose (I don't, but many do). I'm not sure how someone could or would be content with being railroaded into exploring a choice they never made, nor would make if they had to do it all over again. My choices did matter. They wouldn't matter at all if the next game was a sequel that canonizes a specific ending that many did not choose.

Back in the day RPG players were more sane; Fallout 2 canonized all kinds of stuff from FO1. But maybe ME has raised expectations to the point where they can't be satisfied.

Exceot by grinding all the endings into mush the way KotOR 2 handled the KotOR LS and DS paths. I guess that's workable if you can stand the idea.

[Texhnolyze101]

Stakrin wrote...

Whichever ending you picked changed the opening(even in refuse maybe a small colony of all the races managed to survive, and they are back) and this beginning expanded on the endings, do you think you would forgive not liking then in me3

Nothing is ever going to make me like ME3 endings EVER i don't do ambiguity because its garbage.

Modifié par 101ezylonhxeT, 26 novembre 2013 - 09:03 .

[AlanC9]

Malanek999 wrote...
Some of these can be merged back together in a convincing manner ie the Geth can be rebuilt. But most of them can't. If they went and said GodShep left the galaxy and took the Reapers with it, that isn't respecting player choice for any player who wanted their Shep to stay and rule the galaxy. Synthesis is just far too different to gloss over, having everything being synthetic and organic is a big ****ing difference. Even other factors like whether the Krogan had the genophage cured or the Quarians are wiped out are monumental moments for the galaxy that should have far reaching consequences.

It is kind of strange to say that the choices mattered when the way they mattered is that they all turned out the same anyway.

[Rotward]

iakus wrote...

No. In fact, it would make me hate ME3 even more.

I despise all the endings and don't want any follow up game to touch them in any way.

This. That's what pisses me off about me3's ending most - they CAN'T follow up now. Me4 has to be in the past, or so far in the future that your choices are no longer relevant. 

[Malanek]

AlanC9 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...
Some of these can be merged back together in a convincing manner ie the Geth can be rebuilt. But most of them can't. If they went and said GodShep left the galaxy and took the Reapers with it, that isn't respecting player choice for any player who wanted their Shep to stay and rule the galaxy. Synthesis is just far too different to gloss over, having everything being synthetic and organic is a big ****ing difference. Even other factors like whether the Krogan had the genophage cured or the Quarians are wiped out are monumental moments for the galaxy that should have far reaching consequences.

It is kind of strange to say that the choices mattered when the way they mattered is that they all turned out the same anyway.

And I forgot to talk about refuse 

[Mcfly616]

Malanek999 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't really want to see the endings from ME3 hand waved into one game. They are too diverse and if you really wanted your choices to matter you would be content with just exploring one of them.

umm not if you have a specific ending you always choose (I don't, but many do). I'm not sure how someone could or would be content with being railroaded into exploring a choice they never made, nor would make if they had to do it all over again. My choices did matter. They wouldn't matter at all if the next game was a sequel that canonizes a specific ending that many did not choose.

I'm not sure what you see being "hand-waved". It's entirely possible to tell any number of stories that are would work within all of the settings that the ME3 endings provide.

Look at the alternatives.

With a prequel your choice in the prequel doesn't matter as it can't effect the previous/subsequent events. So it has to be written to not offer any meaningful choice.

If they went with a Sequel with an import...

Synthesis. Everything is synthetic and organic. Reapers are still around.

Control. God-Shep rules the galaxy. Reapers still around.

Destroy - Reapers gone. Geth gone.

Some of these can be merged back together in a convincing manner ie the Geth can be rebuilt. But most of them can't. If they went and said GodShep left the galaxy and took the Reapers with it, that isn't respecting player choice for any player who wanted their Shep to stay and rule the galaxy. Synthesis is just far too different to gloss over, having everything being synthetic and organic is a big ****ing difference. Even other factors like whether the Krogan had the genophage cured or the Quarians are wiped out are monumental moments for the galaxy that should have far reaching consequences.

I don't believe it is at all practical to merge all the different decisions and possibilities into one story. Not even close. Trying to do so does NOT respect player choice. It basically ignores it while trying to pretend it does.

They can respect these choices by leaving them to the imagination and exploring what happens with a selected set of choices. If you didn't pick tjose things does it really matter? You are not playing as Shepard anymore. You get to see what your Shepard avoided.

who said anything about "merging them all together"?? I was literally proposing the exact opposite.


I dont see how it isn't practical. Especially when the story doesn't have to be about the exploration and evaluation of the effects Shepards choices had on the galaxy. Nor does it have to be about any particular species. Which is why it seems completely practical.

The narrative doesn't need to be defined or confined by the parameters of Shepards choices. This story has nothing to do with Shepard whatsoever. They can easily define the setting with Shepard's choices. It's not necessary for the story though. If it's a sequel, these new characters will have their own stories to tell....they'll just be living in a galaxy that Shepard shaped.




Personally, I'd rather they left it alone and did something before the Shepard Trilogy or an AU. After all, Bioware only ever said that our choices would carry over the course of a trilogy (3 games). I'm looking forward to an entirely fresh start without Shepard or his crew. I can go back and visit them whenever I want. I was simply stating that a sequel with a more personal story that doesn't have to do with saving the entire universe, based in 3 varying settings defined by imported choices.....that's not impractical, especially not on next gen hardware.

[Malanek]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't really want to see the endings from ME3 hand waved into one game. They are too diverse and if you really wanted your choices to matter you would be content with just exploring one of them.

umm not if you have a specific ending you always choose (I don't, but many do). I'm not sure how someone could or would be content with being railroaded into exploring a choice they never made, nor would make if they had to do it all over again. My choices did matter. They wouldn't matter at all if the next game was a sequel that canonizes a specific ending that many did not choose.

I'm not sure what you see being "hand-waved". It's entirely possible to tell any number of stories that are would work within all of the settings that the ME3 endings provide.

Look at the alternatives.

With a prequel your choice in the prequel doesn't matter as it can't effect the previous/subsequent events. So it has to be written to not offer any meaningful choice.

If they went with a Sequel with an import...

Synthesis. Everything is synthetic and organic. Reapers are still around.

Control. God-Shep rules the galaxy. Reapers still around.

Destroy - Reapers gone. Geth gone.

Some of these can be merged back together in a convincing manner ie the Geth can be rebuilt. But most of them can't. If they went and said GodShep left the galaxy and took the Reapers with it, that isn't respecting player choice for any player who wanted their Shep to stay and rule the galaxy. Synthesis is just far too different to gloss over, having everything being synthetic and organic is a big ****ing difference. Even other factors like whether the Krogan had the genophage cured or the Quarians are wiped out are monumental moments for the galaxy that should have far reaching consequences.

I don't believe it is at all practical to merge all the different decisions and possibilities into one story. Not even close. Trying to do so does NOT respect player choice. It basically ignores it while trying to pretend it does.

They can respect these choices by leaving them to the imagination and exploring what happens with a selected set of choices. If you didn't pick tjose things does it really matter? You are not playing as Shepard anymore. You get to see what your Shepard avoided.

who said anything about "merging them all together"?? I was literally proposing the exact opposite.


I dont see how it isn't practical. Especially when the story doesn't have to be about the exploration and evaluation of the effects Shepards choices had on the galaxy. Nor does it have to be about any particular species. Which is why it seems completely practical.

The narrative doesn't need to be defined or confined by the parameters of Shepards choices. This story has nothing to do with Shepard whatsoever. They can easily define the setting with Shepard's choices. It's not necessary for the story though. If it's a sequel, these new characters will have their own stories to tell....they'll just be living in a galaxy that Shepard shaped.

You are proposing to have a single game which takes into account all the endings, presumably via some save import? That is what I mean by merging them together. If you are not talking about that I have no idea what you mean.

[Stakrin]

The proposition is one game that is the same regardless of the ending, never talking about the ending because it is irrelevant to that storyline.

[Mcfly616]

Malanek999 wrote...

You are proposing to have a single game which takes into account all the endings, presumably via some save import? That is what I mean by merging them together. If you are not talking about that I have no idea what you mean.

I'm saying its practical and entirely possible to make a game where the setting is determined by your specific choice at the end of ME3 (via save import). I'm not sure how that's "merging" them. The setting would be completely different based on each import. If anything I'd see that is keeping them quite separate.


Hell, that's even more "different" than the VS. Do you consider the VS a merge of the same 2 characters? Wrex and Wreave? Morinth and Samara? No, they're two different people that fill a role. Just as the Destroy, Synthesis, and Control provide different settings that could set the stage for the next game. Same concept, on a bigger scale. Such a thing need not have an effect on a protagonists individual journey/quest/adventure. The import "is" the world. It's the backdrop, the atmosphere. And that's not something I consider a "hand-wave" The setting and atmosphere can make or break a game for me, personally.

[Malanek]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

You are proposing to have a single game which takes into account all the endings, presumably via some save import? That is what I mean by merging them together. If you are not talking about that I have no idea what you mean.

I'm saying its practical and entirely possible to make a game where the setting is determined by your specific choice at the end of ME3 (via save import). I'm not sure how that's "merging" them. The setting would be completely different based on each import. If anything I'd see that is keeping them quite separate.

I don't want to get sidetracked into a VS debate. All I'll say is that had far less cosequences and still wasn't completely convincing.

But I do agree what you are proposing by keeping all the settings different would be great. But it is completely unpractical. How do you write a single story where it could be based on either Refuse or Synthesis. How can you justify writing a major Quarian character, if in another persons game he, and his entire species, may not exist. It is because of costs that any attempt to do so will result in all the consequences of the previous game becoming superficial. And that is not respecting player choice.

[Mcfly616]

Stakrin wrote...

The proposition is one game that is the same regardless of the ending, never talking about the ending because it is irrelevant to that storyline.

if the story has nothing to do with Shepard.....why would the ending/his choices have any effect on someone else's story in the future? You do know Bioware said "no connections to Shepards story", right? Obviously they had an effect on the world everyone will live in, but they certainly don't determine the fates and life paths of every future inhabitant of the galaxy.


Does Jesus Christ, Buddha, Noah's Ark, Moses, Evolution, WW2 determine the narrative path of every little story in our everyday lives? Man, I sure hope not. Atleast not me. I mean, they're certainly topics of discussion and undoubtedly have shaped the world we live in. But they don't decide my fate.



Nor do Shepards choices need to define the story of the next protagonist who has absolutely "no connections" with him whatsoever. They could however show how Shepards choices undoubtedly shaped the galaxy everyone lives in.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 26 novembre 2013 - 10:32 .

[Mcfly616]

Malanek999 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

You are proposing to have a single game which takes into account all the endings, presumably via some save import? That is what I mean by merging them together. If you are not talking about that I have no idea what you mean.

I'm saying its practical and entirely possible to make a game where the setting is determined by your specific choice at the end of ME3 (via save import). I'm not sure how that's "merging" them. The setting would be completely different based on each import. If anything I'd see that is keeping them quite separate.

I don't want to get sidetracked into a VS debate. All I'll say is that had far less cosequences and still wasn't completely convincing.

But I do agree what you are proposing by keeping all the settings different would be great. But it is completely unpractical. How do you write a single story where it could be based on either Refuse or Synthesis. How can you justify writing a major Quarian character, if in another persons game he, and his entire species, may not exist. It is because of costs that any attempt to do so will result in all the consequences of the previous game becoming superficial. And that is not respecting player choice.

personally, I equate the Refuse ending to the "Everyone including Shepard" dies in ME2 ending. When asked about those Shepards that died in ME2, BW basically said "then that's the end of those Shepards stories" (paraphrasing, ofcourse). BW already said that it will be in the MEU we know in love. That would mean this cycle (Asari, Turian, etc etc). Seeing as how our cycle is eradicated in Refuse, it leaves that ending as sort of an impossibility.


Pertaining to certain characters not being possible for certain people (e.g. Destroyers, or No Quarians, Krogan, etc etc)....its possible. In fact, they've already done it before. They've taken the time to write squadmates/characters that are completely optional. Wrex/Wreave, Morinth/Samara, Padok Wiks/ Mordin, and so on and so forth....this time it'd just be a different species filling in the role. That doesn't seem too far of a stretch.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 26 novembre 2013 - 11:30 .