314 réponses à ce sujet

[Jorji Costava]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

You're free to see it that way if you wish - I first got into the series in ME2 so I didn't know any different. DA2 takes it an order of magnitude further, though - it limits the kind of characters one can write when the entire cast has to be "made available" to anyone and everyone; when orientation derives from factors outside of characterization, the former steers the latter.

I see this as a problem with all the romances, bisexual or otherwise. Most of the NPCs' interest in the PC has relatively little to do with characterization. Tali should probably not be dating rabidly pro-Cerberus Shepard, Miranda should probably have minimal interest in boy-scount Shepard, etc. But these characters are made available to the player regardless of their alignment on the Paragon/Renegade scale or anything else, besides the PC's gender and what they say in two or three conversations (this is largely why I've avoided romances altogether).

I agree that the NPC's need to have a measure of agency; there need to be ways for them to reject the PC, but I'm not sure that this always has to be in terms of their sexual orientation. If Tom the Templar is bisexual but could conceivably turn down the PC because he won't date mages, or even because he doesn't like the PC's jokes very much, then that seems like a reasonable characterization to me, other things being equal. The point is that there are ways to make NPC's 'unavailable' beyond their sexual orientation.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Silfren wrote...

Filament wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

And I have yet to meet a single person who has studied English be able to pin-point exactly what American Standard truly is.

Keith David. Now we all know.

Can we have Keith David in DA:I please?

Keith David for male Qunari PC voice, please!

Yes, I know it'll never happen, but that'd be awesome.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Silfren wrote...

Filament wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

And I have yet to meet a single person who has studied English be able to pin-point exactly what American Standard truly is.

Keith David. Now we all know.

Can we have Keith David in DA:I please?

No. You will need to settle for Phil LaMarr instead.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Steve Blum will voice everybody in DA:I, this has been confirmed by sources.

[Ryzaki]

wolfhowwl wrote...
Good points. The lore was probably twisted as well. It is hilarious that we're told Quarians have such problematic immune systems that they have to wear suits all the time but then in ME2 Tali can have sex with an alien before a critical mission with no ill effects just by taking an herbal supplement, LOL!

It is and that bothered me far far more than all bi LIs ever will. You can actually sleep with someone who runs the risk of dying by boning you and this is okay but two dudes and two chicks being bisexual? OH NOES.

Steelcan wrote...
I don't know about everyone else but I appreciate characters being more realistic.  People have preferences in
real life.  Can you imagine in ME3 Traynor being established as a lesbian but being player sexual in game so male Shepards can take a swing and not strike out?

Its equal and fair, but its at the expense of characterization.

Christ now I'm starting to sound like a certain someone.

It's not really realistic when practically every young attractive female is single and all too willing to throw her panties at Shep. It's as much fantasy fanservice as all bi only this fantasy fanservice hits another group.

She wouldn't be a lesbian then would she? She'd be bisexual.

It really wouldn't be equal and fair seeing as male Shep can **** half the galaxy while everyone else gets scraps. He can afford to miss one LI and it's still balanced out with him being the victor.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 novembre 2013 - 06:28 .

[Peer of the Empire]

No.  Make it realistic

Bioware would destroy their own game doing what OP suggests

[DeinonSlayer]

osbornep wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

You're free to see it that way if you wish - I first got into the series in ME2 so I didn't know any different. DA2 takes it an order of magnitude further, though - it limits the kind of characters one can write when the entire cast has to be "made available" to anyone and everyone; when orientation derives from factors outside of characterization, the former steers the latter.

I see this as a problem with all the romances, bisexual or otherwise. Most of the NPCs' interest in the PC has relatively little to do with characterization. Tali should probably not be dating rabidly pro-Cerberus Shepard, Miranda should probably have minimal interest in boy-scount Shepard, etc. But these characters are made available to the player regardless of their alignment on the Paragon/Renegade scale or anything else, besides the PC's gender and what they say in two or three conversations (this is largely why I've avoided romances altogether).

I agree that the NPC's need to have a measure of agency; there need to be ways for them to reject the PC, but I'm not sure that this always has to be in terms of their sexual orientation. If Tom the Templar is bisexual but could conceivably turn down the PC because he won't date mages, or even because he doesn't like the PC's jokes very much, then that seems like a reasonable characterization to me, other things being equal. The point is that there are ways to make NPC's 'unavailable' beyond their sexual orientation.

Agreed. And factoring in such things improves realism.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Steve Blum will voice everybody in DA:I, this has been confirmed by sources.

Fall and worship your lord and savior, peasents.

[Morty Smith]

After I read this thread I hope they include a character named Monkeyshines. And he should be purely made to offend all people of all colors, sexes and orientations equally.

[Silfren]

leaguer of one wrote...

Silfren wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

How about they work on making the best game possible rather than trying to appease those who look for reasons to be offended by "not enough people of X race/sexuality/gender/whatever"?

Why does making the best game possible, telling the best story possible, have to come at the expense of excluding minorities? 

Dear lord, what make you think thedus has the same Human development our world does or even have the same issues? The point is not to force it in. Thedus is not a mirror of our world. It not like human of thedes is not show to have ethnic variety.

I don't think you've thought your own argument through. 

Yes, I have. Why would a fantasy world have the same minorites we do or ecthnic issues? Why should it cater to our worlds? I'm for having it be similar to what we have if it makes sense. If not then why force it. It would be like putting African people in Jade empire.

For one thing, Thedas already does.  It's already established that there are dark-skinned people in Thedas.  What's being asked for is for them to be more visible--i.e. have a greater presence than to just be the odd token character. Absolutely NOBODY is asking for Thedas to write the continent of Africa into the story, just for there to be more people with skin colors dark enough to be analagous to real-world dark skinned people, whether they are of African desecent or otherwise. 
I don't know what you mean by "ethnic issues" though, since again, absolutely no one is asking for skin color-based prejudice to be brought into the game.  Thedas already has racism between humans and elves and kossith, and plenty of nationality-based prejudice.  There is no call for putting skin color-based racism in the games and a helluva GOOD reason for not putting them in.

[Br3admax]

Why don't you believe in the power of love, Ryzaki? Even science, or close-enough, cannot stop it.

[thats1evildude]

To avoid any potential unfortunate implications, all characters in Dragon Age will now resemble the Greendale Human Being:

Modifié par thats1evildude, 27 novembre 2013 - 06:30 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Love concurs all, even the most bitter of hatreds.



That's why thedas is so not-predjudice, everyone just follows their nether regions and doesn't let ideology get in the way of tapping that.

[David Gaider]

Appreciate the thoughtful tone of the original post. Many of the things you suggest are things we already do, but you are correct in suggesting there are also things we can do better.

As I've said previously, it never hurts a company to, at some point in development, ask "why not?" That doesn't mean reality is going to turn topsy-turvy, the setting will lose all coherence, and the quality of the story will be tossed to the wayside. It doesn't mean we will do all those things, or do them to the extent that some may like--no single game can be all things to all people, after all-- but it never hurts to have the question asked. There is no danger that, if the suggestion isn't immediately and vehemently contradicted, we developers will suddenly lose all reason and make it our #1 priority.

I'm going to shut this thread down, however, as it's certainly going nowhere good. Threads like this rarely do, and the manifesto-like nature of the original post is only going to make the descent even quicker. Thank you to those who contributed in a thoughtful manner, and to the others who simply cannot conduct themselves in a civilized fashion a few bans will be handed out.

Modifié par David Gaider, 27 novembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[Ryzaki]

osbornep wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

You're free to see it that way if you wish - I first got into the series in ME2 so I didn't know any different. DA2 takes it an order of magnitude further, though - it limits the kind of characters one can write when the entire cast has to be "made available" to anyone and everyone; when orientation derives from factors outside of characterization, the former steers the latter.

I see this as a problem with all the romances, bisexual or otherwise. Most of the NPCs' interest in the PC has relatively little to do with characterization. Tali should probably not be dating rabidly pro-Cerberus Shepard, Miranda should probably have minimal interest in boy-scount Shepard, etc. But these characters are made available to the player regardless of their alignment on the Paragon/Renegade scale or anything else, besides the PC's gender and what they say in two or three conversations (this is largely why I've avoided romances altogether).

I agree that the NPC's need to have a measure of agency; there need to be ways for them to reject the PC, but I'm not sure that this always has to be in terms of their sexual orientation. If Tom the Templar is bisexual but could conceivably turn down the PC because he won't date mages, or even because he doesn't like the PC's jokes very much, then that seems like a reasonable characterization to me, other things being equal. The point is that there are ways to make NPC's 'unavailable' beyond their sexual orientation.

Thank you.

I have far more of an issue with the blatant characterization red flags than someone boning someone of the same gender.

I agree so hard with all of this. You can have all bi LIs and still have them turn down the player for several reasons. Maker knows I wondered why Alistair didn't immediately dump my manipulative bloodmage chick when she slaughtered the elf clan, sold other elves into slavery among other things that Alistair blatantly shows disgust for.