314 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

The only romance should be a shapeless genderless gelatinous cube, because fairness.

Inquisitor x Companion Cube OTP

[sandalisthemaker]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

THERE WAS AND HIS NAME WAS JAMES VEGA. SUCH A TEASE, BIOWARE. NOT COOL. 

BUT I CAN APPRECIATE A GOOD ASS IF IT HAS THE RIGHT BUBBLY NATURE. I DISLIKE PANCAKE OR SPONGEBOB ASSES.

WAIT. THERE WERE ASS SHOTS OF JAMES? HOW DID I MISS THEM?

I'M SORRY GURL, I WAS THINKING OF KAIDAN AND HIS ASS SHOTS. NO, WE GOT NO VEGA ASS. HOWEVER, WE GOT LOOOOOOOOOOTS OF TEASING.

YEAH, ESP IN THAT CITADEL SCENE IF YOU DON'T ROMANCE ANYONE AND HE ASKS WHY. 
THAT DRIPPED WITH HOMOEROTICISM. VEGA IS CLOSETED AND TOTALLY HAS THE HOTS FOR MANSHEP

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 27 novembre 2013 - 02:38 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Statare wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

As Recon said, this is a game with a plot, not some romance simulator for minorities.

And it is equally not some romance simulator for straight, white folk.

I never said it was. Don't strawman my argument.

A decent percentage of Bioware's fanbase is not-white, especially if you consider that they sell internationally. I know some Bioware games are favorites of my cousins in México, D.F.. And yes, a decent percentage of Bioware's fan-base are not-straight.

Ignoratio elenchi fallacy. You're missing the point of what I'm saying.

This isn't 'U.N.: The Game'.

This is Dragon Age Inquisition. I'd rather they focus completely on the story and characters that would be relevant to the story and have a strong purpose in the story that ties into the lore and history of Dragon Age. 

It's about being inclusive to their fans. And what about including more diverse characters in a story makes the plot worse or even threatened?

When they're put in the game for the sake of putting them in the game. You're asking for equal treatment of all characters and having their skin color, gender, gender identity, and sexual orientation have a large effect on their character.

The point of this game isn't to make you feel included. If you're insecure enough about whoever you are to want to have a game have a significant portion of the characters focus on their own preferences and differences, then you probably need to go out and find other people and network and get some self-esteem. You're asking for the game to pander to you because of this. That just ruins the games credibility.

This takes away from the impact that said characters can have on the game. As I've said, I'd rather they stick with writing characters to have a role in the story because they're a mage, templar, elf, dwarf, qun, etc, than because they're black, white, gay, straight, female, bi, transgender, etc.

Beyond the fact that they have seperate writers and alloted budgets, as has been said, a good story does not have homogeneous characters.

A good story doesn't define itself  based on the racial differences and sexual preferences of its characters either.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 27 novembre 2013 - 02:44 .

[leaguer of one]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

The only romance should be a shapeless genderless gelatinous cube, because fairness.

[ParkBom]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

THERE WAS AND HIS NAME WAS JAMES VEGA. SUCH A TEASE, BIOWARE. NOT COOL. 

BUT I CAN APPRECIATE A GOOD ASS IF IT HAS THE RIGHT BUBBLY NATURE. I DISLIKE PANCAKE OR SPONGEBOB ASSES.

WAIT. THERE WERE ASS SHOTS OF JAMES? HOW DID I MISS THEM?

I'M SORRY GURL, I WAS THINKING OF KAIDAN AND HIS ASS SHOTS. NO, WE GOT NO VEGA ASS. HOWEVER, WE GOT LOOOOOOOOOOTS OF TEASING.

YEAH, ESP IN THAT CITADEL SCENE IF YOU DON'T ROMANCE ANYONE AND HE ASKS WHY. 
THAT DRIPPED WITH HOMOEROTICISM. VEGA IS CLOSETED AND TOTALLY HAS THE HOTS FOR MANSHEP

WHAT??????

IM SO FUQIN DONE RIGHT NOW. HOW WAS HE NOT A ROMANCE? FEMSHEP AND MALESHEP BOTH COULD HAVE USED HIM. 

[AresKeith]

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Op, I would also like the point out that this is one of the few devs who has a made a game with each character being asian and cast a black woman to voice and rascally ambiguous woman who happens to be a character who is strong and independent.

Yep, Bioware pretty much includes races based on it's setting

How many devs even take a chance at that setting? The only other story with so much asian infuence out side of asia is Avatar.

I mean unless there's a country in Thedas that is based on China and/or Japan then I don't expect to asian npcs

Because of countries like Rivian I expect to see atleast a handful of darker skinned people (like Vivienne, Duncan, and Isabela) every now and then 

[sandalisthemaker]

CrustyBot wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

The only romance should be a shapeless genderless gelatinous cube, because fairness.

Inquisitor x Companion Cube OTP

NOT ENOUGH SLOTS OR PROTRUSIONS.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

CrustyBot wrote...

https://i.chzbgr.com...8336/hC52DD99E/

As a die-hard flaming progressive liberal, I think PC is pretty stupid.

It's one thing to be tactful. It's another thing to demand special treatment because you're different or swing one way or the other.

[JasonPogo]

Can the two people talking about asses please cut it out and stay on topic.


Now On Topic I would also caution that Political Correctness is a dirty word to creativity and expression. That in no way means you should be insensitive or downright racist/sexist but political correctness would have any game turn into a horrible fluff piece about puppies and how we should all share...

[IndomitusRex]

Khevan77 wrote...

I urge Bioware to include as many realistic, well written homosexual characters as heterosexual characters in DA:I.

Perhaps I'm reading too much in to your choice of words, but it seems like you're suggesting that half of the characters in DAI should be homosexual.  That's half the population of Thedas as gay or lesbian.  That's just not realistic, anywhere.  Even San Franciso, arguably the most LGBT friendly city in the world, is only estimated to have a homosexual percentage of 15% of its population.  Overrepresenting that segment of the populace to 50% of the population is pandering, and hurts the credibility of the setting.  Should we make half the characters vegetarian as well?  How about vegan, lactose-intolerant, developmentally disabled, blind, Muslim, and atheist characters as well?  Not all lifestyles / creeds need to be or should explored in a frigging video game.  I'm in no way against having positive representations of homosexual characters (Steven Cortez was a great character in ME3, and Lafayette in True Blood is one of my favourite characters).  But to suggest that in order to be fair half the characters in DAI need to be gay is just ludicrous, and smacks of a self-hating apologist PC agenda.  Seriously, most of the flames regarding political correctness and unfair representation are being fanned by straight WASPs who feel that they should be offended on behalf of others.

I am all for more racial variety, as long as it's setting appropriate.  ME fumbled the ball a bit in this department, at least among lead characters (many minor characters were racially indistinct, which I expect would be increasingly common in the future).  While every race/culture doesn't need to be represented every time, having some different flavours is a good thing.  When you're mixing in different alien species into the mix it will become more likely that certain cultures are missed in the primary cast, but that's not the end of the world.

DAI is a slightly different animal, however.  Ferelden is analagous to medieval Britain, Orlais to medieval France.  In those settings Caucasian characters would predominate, and frankly shoe-horning in black or East Indian characters without some explanation is rather silly.  But then we'll be travelling all over Thedas, and would likely come across places where other races predominate (brown people in Rivain, for instance).  Make racial breakdowns setting appropriate.  It's not racist that there aren't many black people in Game of Thrones, because the series doesn't take place in the Summer Isles.

[leaguer of one]

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Op, I would also like the point out that this is one of the few devs who has a made a game with each character being asian and cast a black woman to voice and rascally ambiguous woman who happens to be a character who is strong and independent.

Yep, Bioware pretty much includes races based on it's setting

How many devs even take a chance at that setting? The only other story with so much asian infuence out side of asia is Avatar.

I mean unless there's a country in Thedas that is based on China and/or Japan then I don't expect to asian npcs

Because of countries like Rivian I expect to see atleast a handful of darker skinned people (like Vivienne, Duncan, and Isabela) every now and then 

Which is why the op's post is pointless. Why have our world social issue in a fantasy setting that does not have our social issues?

[spirosz]

IndomitusRex wrote...

Khevan77 wrote...

I urge Bioware to include as many realistic, well written homosexual characters as heterosexual characters in DA:I.

Perhaps I'm reading too much in to your choice of words, but it seems like you're suggesting that half of the characters in DAI should be homosexual.  That's half the population of Thedas as gay or lesbian.  That's just not realistic, anywhere.  Even San Franciso, arguably the most LGBT friendly city in the world, is only estimated to have a homosexual percentage of 15% of its population.  Overrepresenting that segment of the populace to 50% of the population is pandering, and hurts the credibility of the setting.  Should we make half the characters vegetarian as well?  How about vegan, lactose-intolerant, developmentally disabled, blind, Muslim, and atheist characters as well?  Not all lifestyles / creeds need to be or should explored in a frigging video game.  I'm in no way against having positive representations of homosexual characters (Steven Cortez was a great character in ME3, and Lafayette in True Blood is one of my favourite characters).  But to suggest that in order to be fair half the characters in DAI need to be gay is just ludicrous, and smacks of a self-hating apologist PC agenda.  Seriously, most of the flames regarding political correctness and unfair representation are being fanned by straight WASPs who feel that they should be offended on behalf of others.

I am all for more racial variety, as long as it's setting appropriate.  ME fumbled the ball a bit in this department, at least among lead characters (many minor characters were racially indistinct, which I expect would be increasingly common in the future).  While every race/culture doesn't need to be represented every time, having some different flavours is a good thing.  When you're mixing in different alien species into the mix it will become more likely that certain cultures are missed in the primary cast, but that's not the end of the world.

DAI is a slightly different animal, however.  Ferelden is analagous to medieval Britain, Orlais to medieval France.  In those settings Caucasian characters would predominate, and frankly shoe-horning in black or East Indian characters without some explanation is rather silly.  But then we'll be travelling all over Thedas, and would likely come across places where other races predominate (brown people in Rivain, for instance).  Make racial breakdowns setting appropriate.  It's not racist that there aren't many black people in Game of Thrones, because the series doesn't take place in the Summer Isles.

^I like you.

Modifié par spirosz, 27 novembre 2013 - 02:41 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...


Fairness doesn't exist.

'Right thing' is subjective. 

Diversity takes away from unity.

It would offend me because it would tell me the writers are more interested in catering to SJW romancers than making a good game. 

And I want characters to be written and thought out well, not made gay or black for the sake of making them gay or black.

YOU SURE DO LOVE YOUR MIRANDA-MANCE THOUGH.

I do. And her as a character beyond a simple romance as well.

Would you not say that her...appearance... was crafted with a certain audience in mind.  Dare I say to cater to or pander to a certain audience?

Unfortunately (And as evidenced by BW's continued focus on ass shots on her), yes she was. She's my favorite female character in fiction for a variety of reasons, but I'd be a deluded idiot to say that she wasn't made essentially as a sex object.

Casey Hudson himself said that one of her main purposes was to serve as a temptress figure to Shepard.

[sandalisthemaker]

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Op, I would also like the point out that this is one of the few devs who has a made a game with each character being asian and cast a black woman to voice and rascally ambiguous woman who happens to be a character who is strong and independent.

Yep, Bioware pretty much includes races based on it's setting

How many devs even take a chance at that setting? The only other story with so much asian infuence out side of asia is Avatar.

I mean unless there's a country in Thedas that is based on China and/or Japan then I don't expect to asian npcs

Because of countries like Rivian I expect to see atleast a handful of darker skinned people (like Vivienne, Duncan, and Isabela) every now and then 

Which is why the op's post is pointless. Why have our world social issue in a fantasy setting that does not have our social issues?

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

[AresKeith]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Which is why the op's post is pointless. Why have our world social issue in a fantasy setting that does not have our social issues?

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

I've never really seen anyone argue against those outside of romance 

Modifié par AresKeith, 27 novembre 2013 - 02:47 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Op, I would also like the point out that this is one of the few devs who has a made a game with each character being asian and cast a black woman to voice and rascally ambiguous woman who happens to be a character who is strong and independent.

Yep, Bioware pretty much includes races based on it's setting

How many devs even take a chance at that setting? The only other story with so much asian infuence out side of asia is Avatar.

I mean unless there's a country in Thedas that is based on China and/or Japan then I don't expect to asian npcs

Because of countries like Rivian I expect to see atleast a handful of darker skinned people (like Vivienne, Duncan, and Isabela) every now and then 

Which is why the op's post is pointless. Why have our world social issue in a fantasy setting that does not have our social issues?

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

I don't think every woman should be powerful, or strong and independent. Don't get me wrong, they're my dream women, but that's what makes them extraordinary. I like extraordinary women. They're a cut above everyone else. That what makes them so appealing. And it takes away from their credibility when every last one of them is made like that.

[sandalisthemaker]

AresKeith wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Which is why the op's post is pointless. Why have our world social issue in a fantasy setting that does not have our social issues?

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

I've never really seen anyone argue against those outside of romance 

This whole thread is about inclusivity, not romance, and you still have naysayers in this very thread.
Are you blind, man?

[leaguer of one]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Op, I would also like the point out that this is one of the few devs who has a made a game with each character being asian and cast a black woman to voice and rascally ambiguous woman who happens to be a character who is strong and independent.

Yep, Bioware pretty much includes races based on it's setting

How many devs even take a chance at that setting? The only other story with so much asian infuence out side of asia is Avatar.

I mean unless there's a country in Thedas that is based on China and/or Japan then I don't expect to asian npcs

Because of countries like Rivian I expect to see atleast a handful of darker skinned people (like Vivienne, Duncan, and Isabela) every now and then 

Which is why the op's post is pointless. Why have our world social issue in a fantasy setting that does not have our social issues?

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

That's how it already is. If the op just played da, they would see it's already like that. We have a church hierarchy made of woman who use there power and another religion that's religious hierarchy also made of women. Many culture were woman fight and take the lead in war. Even the person who had the most power in Kirkwall was Female and a fighter. We have the silent sisters. We have the mc and other character who can be gay or bi and no one bats an eye except one very druch dwarf. We have racial and social issues left and right the struggle to balance them out.

It's all already there.

[ParkBom]

JasonPogo wrote...

Can the two people talking about asses please cut it out and stay on topic.


Now On Topic I would also caution that Political Correctness is a dirty word to creativity and expression. That in no way means you should be insensitive or downright racist/sexist but political correctness would have any game turn into a horrible fluff piece about puppies and how we should all share...

Go mini-mod the others, plz. Ass ass ass ass ass

And while I'm not for extreme political correctness (Going by definition, here), I don't think including a diverse cast of characters threatens to turn the game into a fluff piece about puppies and sharing. Someone brought how fantasy is so much about medieval Europe and how that countries with people other than white people aren't really that explored. Shouldn't that be a problem? But I digress, I do support having a diverse cast but not to the extremity. 

Btw, most people don't care about being insulted about their race, sexuality, etc, in-game. What they care about is being forced to take it and not being able to reply back. (At least, that's what I've gathered.) And if I'm wrong here then hey, that's all I care about.

[spirosz]

Khevan77 wrote...

It's been that way for Bioware games from the beginning. 

Technically, that isn't true.  

[sandalisthemaker]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I don't think every woman should be powerful, or strong and independent. Don't get me wrong, they're my dream women, but that's what makes them extraordinary. I like extraordinary women. They're a cut above everyone else. That what makes them so appealing. And it takes away from their credibility when every last one of them is made like that.

Sure, women are individuals just like men. Not all men are powerful leader types, and neither are all women, but there should be some. And there are already plenty in Thedas, and there will be more. This is good.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 27 novembre 2013 - 02:51 .

[In Exile]

JasonPogo wrote...
And then just to the point of character of color in Dragon Age games. You have to remember that the game takes place in what would boil down to medieval Europe in the real world. So you are not going to have a lot of diversity in that regard throughout the world. Yes you will run into the odd Isabela and such but for the most part everyone will more or les be the same since travel is not as easy as it is today.

There are other posters that can do this better than I can, but actually in real-life medival periods the white-person quotient of the population was lower (and depending on the country, quite a lot lower) that people actually think it was today.  Even if we just reduce the complaint to this, dragon age is actually historically innacurate by presenting "Europe" as monochromatic.

[sandalisthemaker]

leaguer of one wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

That's how it already is. If the op just played da, they would see it's already like that. We have a church hierarchy made of woman who use there power and another religion that's religious hierarchy also made of women. Many culture were woman fight and take the lead in war. Even the person who had the most power in Kirkwall was Female and a fighter. We have the silent sisters. We have the mc and other character who can be gay or bi and no one bats an eye except one very druch dwarf. We have racial and social issues left and right the struggle to balance them out.

It's all already there.

Part of the OP's gripe is fan reaction.  
And just look as some of these posts.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 27 novembre 2013 - 02:53 .

[leaguer of one]

spirosz wrote...

Khevan77 wrote...

It's been that way for Bioware games from the beginning. 

Technically, that isn't true.  

Correction: It's been that way from the time bw started making rpg's and it sky rocketed the moment they included romances.

[leaguer of one]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Agreed, then there should be gays and bisexuals, and powerful women, and no one should bat an eye because that's how it is in Thedas.

That's how it already is. If the op just played da, they would see it's already like that. We have a church hierarchy made of woman who use there power and another religion that's religious hierarchy also made of women. Many culture were woman fight and take the lead in war. Even the person who had the most power in Kirkwall was Female and a fighter. We have the silent sisters. We have the mc and other character who can be gay or bi and no one bats an eye except one very druch dwarf. We have racial and social issues left and right the struggle to balance them out.

It's all already there.

Part of the OP's gripe is fan reaction.  
And just look as some of these posts.

Most of the post are just people telling the op that all that they want is already being used in the games and it should not be forced just because.