101 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonIroh001]

I know the endings have been discussed to death, but I saw something with regards to Synthesis on Tvtropes that I thought interesting and I want to know your opinions.

After choosing the Synthesis ending (and by extent agreeing with someone who has committed genocide for possibly billions of years) the Reapers stop their harvest of the current cycle and help with the reconstruction of the damage they caused along with the races of the galaxy. In the Extended Cut EDI explains that the Reapers also gave the galaxy the collective knowledge of all the past races they harvested bring the galaxy into a Utopia. But think about this, how long have the Reapers been doing this? How many races they harvested? And they just give this knowledge? By turning the galaxy into a technological utopia the galaxy is at its most advance in any given cycle, but where to build up from that? How more can you advance?

If all previous knowledge and tech of past races were used then there isn't really anywhere to go from there on. The destiny of everyone in the galaxy was just handed to them, something the Geth should be entirely against has it goes against one of the core beliefs of their philosophy. Legion said it best in ME2, that a people need to find their own future and not have it merely given to them as it stunts their development. That the journey is just as important as the destination. It doesn't help that Creative Sterility was already setting in on the galaxy before Humans showed up, and when they did more in 30 years then most did in a century it freaked people out. So what do you think will happen in a future where technology is already so advance that no further research is needed?

So would the races of the galaxy, in a couple centuries or so after Synthesis occurs, become creatively stagnant once again (like the council races did when they found Prothean Tech) after their tech boom has finished? Or will science still progress in new and interesting ways?

[ElSuperGecko]

Well yeah, husks don't look all that creative to me...

[Clayless]

Well the only way for it to become creatively sterile, in-universe, would be for them to create technology that allows them to do literally anything. That means being able to explore the universe and even control the forces of the universe, to the extent that they could stop the heat death.

It looks like they're a loooooooooooooong way off that.

[Iakus]

DragonIroh001 wrote...

I know the endings have been discussed to death, but I saw something with regards to Synthesis on Tvtropes that I thought interesting and I want to know your opinions.

After choosing the Synthesis ending (and by extent agreeing with someone who has committed genocide for possibly billions of years) the Reapers stop their harvest of the current cycle and help with the reconstruction of the damage they caused along with the races of the galaxy. In the Extended Cut EDI explains that the Reapers also gave the galaxy the collective knowledge of all the past races they harvested bring the galaxy into a Utopia. But think about this, how long have the Reapers been doing this? How many races they harvested? And they just give this knowledge? By turning the galaxy into a technological utopia the galaxy is at its most advance in any given cycle, but where to build up from that? How more can you advance?

If all previous knowledge and tech of past races were used then there isn't really anywhere to go from there on. The destiny of everyone in the galaxy was just handed to them, something the Geth should be entirely against has it goes against one of the core beliefs of their philosophy. Legion said it best in ME2, that a people need to find their own future and not have it merely given to them as it stunts their development. That the journey is just as important as the destination. It doesn't help that Creative Sterility was already setting in on the galaxy before Humans showed up, and when they did more in 30 years then most did in a century it freaked people out. So what do you think will happen in a future where technology is already so advance that no further research is needed?

So would the races of the galaxy, in a couple centuries or so after Synthesis occurs, become creatively stagnant once again (like the council races did when they found Prothean Tech) after their tech boom has finished? Or will science still progress in new and interesting ways?

Mordin said it best:

http://www.youtube.c...IQfmWx3dI#t=107

[Stakrin]

 Well utopia is impossible if you want advancement as well, change kills utopia.

[ElSuperGecko]

iakus wrote...
Mordin said it best:

http://www.youtube.c...IQfmWx3dI#t=107

I love you.

[Rasofe]

Synthesis is some alien robot's crazy idea of perfection that EDI unfortunately gets sucked into because it lets her and Joker have a more carnal relationship. It's unfair to all the organics who now glow in the dark and have to see each other when they have sex.

Okay, more to the point. The Catalyst THINKS that Synthesis is the apex of evolution. More likely it just transcends evolution of life and doesn't even work anymore. Perhaps genetic code doesn't mutate anymore. i don't know, the details are ambigious, but the only way it would satisfy the Catalyst's insane demands would be if evolution simply stopped afterwards.

The real solutions to its so called problem have unfolded right before its eyes, but for some bizarre reason it doesn't believe anything it can't observe by turning it into a Reaper. Except Shepard, who raised some flags. But it's doubtful the Catalyst realises what makes Shepard so important.

[N7Gold]

There's no space magic behind this, only elaborate deception. Synthesis is not the pinnacle of evolution, there is no pinnacle to evolving at all. Synthesis is the Catalyst's means for establishing a connection between all life, something that the Leviathans wanted it to do so that all life in the galaxy can be genetically connected to them, and they can use their mind control ability which is similar to how a quantum entanglement communicator device works (the thing Shepard uses to speak to Illusive Man in ME2), to control the minds of every organic and synthetic in the galaxy, forcing all life in the galaxy to pay tribute to their "greatness" as the apex of life like they used to before the Reapers existed.

Modifié par N7Gold, 27 novembre 2013 - 07:33 .

[Rasofe]

Damn.
So the Reapers hunting for Leviathan is really just a staged double-game?
You know, I would pay DOUBLE for Leviathan if I got the choice to kill them. It would be worth it too, since then I would have two distinct playthroughs of the DLC rather than the same with different squaddies for my Paragade M!Shep and Impulsive Femshep.

Modifié par Rasofe, 27 novembre 2013 - 07:42 .

[Wayning_Star]

kind of ego centric to think that you cannot learn something new. How big, exactly is space anyway, how many planets and it's beings out there?

Guess we'll never know,eh?

edit: thought this might be interesting to ask again, considering this thread...

http://social.biowar.../index/17613408

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 27 novembre 2013 - 08:41 .

[Wayning_Star]

N7Gold wrote...

There's no space magic behind this, only elaborate deception. Synthesis is not the pinnacle of evolution, there is no pinnacle to evolving at all. Synthesis is the Catalyst's means for establishing a connection between all life, something that the Leviathans wanted it to do so that all life in the galaxy can be genetically connected to them, and they can use their mind control ability which is similar to how a quantum entanglement communicator device works (the thing Shepard uses to speak to Illusive Man in ME2), to control the minds of every organic and synthetic in the galaxy, forcing all life in the galaxy to pay tribute to their "greatness" as the apex of life like they used to before the Reapers existed.

pretty good excuse to harvest them, apparently..

[Ruadh]

Banshee babies NOAW

I was wondering how synthesis could be the pinnacle of evolution when in fact the Leviathan are the pinnacle of evolution. No, my bad. The Reapers are the pinnacle of evolution. No, wait. Saren is the pinnacle of evolution. No, wrong again. The illusive man is the pinnacle of evolution. Erm . . .

[Wayning_Star]

i.e. no pinnacle...

crap.. I hate it when that happens..

[AlexMBrennan]

If all previous knowledge and tech of past races were used then there isn't really anywhere to go from there on.

That is complete nonsense - like saying that you have reached the top of a ladder if you have taken a single step. Sure, technology will leap forwards but there will always be ways to improve theories, optimise technology and so on.

something the Geth should be entirely against

The geth have completely sold out when they accepted Reaper "help" (knowing that they would be terminated when the Reapers won the war, they nevertheless allied themselves to maximise the number of quarians they could murder before their inevitable demise)

[SwobyJ]

Synthesis is symbolic.


EDIT: Synthesis = a wish to resolve this universe and move onto exploring other ones. This is made more clear in the EC though.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 novembre 2013 - 09:50 .

[Kataphrut94]

I don't think so. Synthesis changed people's bodies to make them technologically superior, and they can get a few pointers from the Reapers, but that's it. There's always more to learn, more to discover and more to create. For a start, I don't think synthesis will cause culture to stagnate; it isn't going to stop art or philosophy.

[Rotward]

Any ending involving the reaper tech will result in a technological stagnation. The reapers are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of years old. They still haven't escaped the galaxy. Their tech, from what we saw in 'from ashes,' has not advanced at all over the course of a cycle. In all likelihood, the reapers themselves have long since become technologically stagnant. Thus, any society which relies on their tech will suffer the same fate.

I like the concept of synthesis, but I would not allow that ending while the reapers still existed.

[Garant26]

Preserved civilisations would not be thousands of light years away from the level of the Galactic civilization of the ME universe, since most of them got harvested near the same point in their existence. Mordin's point still stands, but chances are that "preserved knowledge" would not be so far off what is known. Knowledge of Reaper tech is something else however, but in the previous cycle and our own its already being analysed and decoded in many ways: Protheans breaktrough regarding Mass Relays, use of Thanix technology based upon the Reaper's beams, etc.

As synthesis allows better undestanding, dialogue and integration between synthetics and organics, I would tend to think that it would give all species different perspectives on many things, thus widening the possibilities regarding technological, social, philosophical, artistic, etc. advancement. Thus being a stimulant to creativity.

I don't think Synthesis leads beings into some form of "apex" or anything, it just creates the possibilities for everyone to enter an entirely new and widely different era regarding mostly everything, as its been well-said a few time earliers here.

Modifié par Garant26, 27 novembre 2013 - 10:30 .

[SwobyJ]

Rotward wrote...

Any ending involving the reaper tech will result in a technological stagnation. The reapers are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of years old. They still haven't escaped the galaxy. Their tech, from what we saw in 'from ashes,' has not advanced at all over the course of a cycle. In all likelihood, the reapers themselves have long since become technologically stagnant. Thus, any society which relies on their tech will suffer the same fate.

I like the concept of synthesis, but I would not allow that ending while the reapers still existed.

I think the point is that:
-Reaper level of advancement and knowledge base
-PLUS organic ingenuity
-PLUS potential other-synthetic variation (Geth)

Would lead not to stagnation, but a level of transcendance eventually beyond the physical laws of the universe.
It wouldn't be a reliance on their tech, but both beings relying on each other, no longer chained to the Cycle.

However, I view it as symbolic. And sapient/sentient husks automatically ruins it for me. And IMO, Mass Effect 3 is not the game to properly make this choice. Maybe later.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 novembre 2013 - 10:53 .

[SwobyJ]

Garant26 wrote...

Preserved civilisations would not be thousands of light years away from the level of the Galactic civilization of the ME universe, since most of them got harvested near the same point in their existence. Mordin's point still stands, but chances are that "preserved knowledge" would not be so far off what is known. Knowledge of Reaper tech is something else however, but in the previous cycle and our own its already being analysed and decoded in many ways: Protheans breaktrough regarding Mass Relays, use of Thanix technology based upon the Reaper's beams, etc.

As synthesis allows better undestanding, dialogue and integration between synthetics and organics, I would tend to think that it would give all species different perspectives on many things, thus widening the possibilities regarding technological, social, philosophical, artistic, etc. advancement. Thus being a stimulant to creativity.

I don't think Synthesis leads beings into some form of "apex" or anything, it just creates the possibilities for everyone to enter an entirely new and widely different era regarding mostly everything, as its been well-said a few time earliers here.

I disagree about the "apex". Synthesis is "apex" personified.

However, I can be with you on the rest. I just view the 'Green' as a type of morality, neither good nor bad, but with drastic positive and negative possibilities. Since I value my individual free will the most (above any utilitarian or egalitarian intent, when it comes down to it), I always have to opt for Destroy in my main playthrough. I have to put myself into 'another Shepard's shoes' to choose otherwise, especially since I consider that indoctrination *is* going on.


EDIT: same as I consider Keep Base in ME2 to be a choice I'd never take on my main playthroughs. We already know in ME2 that Cerberus isn't a group that will utilize the Base properly and ethically, even though keeping the base in itself isn't so much a bad thing.
In the end, Shepard is a Destroyer (though we're allowed to deviate away from this 'writer semi-canon'), and the galaxy needed a Destroyer to be what he is so the Cycle is broken, but we'd have to look forward to future games to see more heroic examples of Control or Synthesis or more.
Eventually, people may consider ME1-3 to be the 'Red' games, but I'd like ones for Blue, Green, Magenta, Orange, Cyan, and more.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 novembre 2013 - 10:58 .

[Xellith]

Wayning_Star wrote...

kind of ego centric to think that you cannot learn something new. How big, exactly is space anyway, how many planets and it's beings out there?

Guess we'll never know,eh?

If the catalyst is right, the relay explosions (which can be seen from outside the milky way) were probobly detected by races in other galaxies.  The Milky way can look forwards to being invaded by these Synthetic killing machiens that have arisen in other galaxies (and wiped out all life there) regardless of the ending color chosen.

Cue ME4!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But it will take light millions of years to get there from here.

EDIT: oh that's right.... BW asspull.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 27 novembre 2013 - 11:01 .

[SwobyJ]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But it will take light millions of years to get there from here.

EDIT: oh that's right.... BW asspull.

I don't really consider the colored waves to be actually happening.

At least, I hope I'm right on that .

[ioannisdenton]

Nonsense. Synthesis is the best ending. Huskification is just nonsense.
I used to hate this ending as i was indoctrinated that Me3 is a bad game from this community.
Replaying Me trilogy one more time atm and having finished me1 i have to say that Me1 purists are so stuck in the past: Me3 > me1 in every possible way. And this comes from a man who became obsessed with ME since Me1.
There is a lot of emotion in that ending. EDI cracks me up in tears. So much emotion from a machine-a.i. The future looks better ,exciting and sci-fi in Synthesis ending.

[Iakus]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Nonsense. Synthesis is the best ending. Huskification is just nonsense.
I used to hate this ending as i was indoctrinated that Me3 is a bad game from this community.
Replaying Me trilogy one more time atm and having finished me1 i have to say that Me1 purists are so stuck in the past: Me3 > me1 in every possible way. And this comes from a man who became obsessed with ME since Me1.
There is a lot of emotion in that ending. EDI cracks me up in tears. So much emotion from a machine-a.i. The future looks better ,exciting and sci-fi in Synthesis ending.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh, my!

Thank you.  Thank you very much for that laugh.  I really needed it!