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Thank you bioware for the best game-series this generation. From start to finish the ride was fantastic.


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#76
crimzontearz

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Funny how many people would have considered a "happily ever after" ending to be the oppoiste of mediocrity, stupidity, and hubris

The ending was mediocre, allowing two people to write it without peer review was stupid and not changing it when they had a shot because "they knew better" was an act if hubris.

Well... in another thread you stated "All in all, if Drew gave me an ending in a high note I would have excused some execution flaws"

So, you favor mediocrity in turn of a "happy ending" where Shepard lives.


Being unable to have both and having to choose I will take the option with the happy ending where Shepard lives

#77
LinksOcarina

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crimzontearz wrote...

Funny how many people would have considered a "happily ever after" ending to be the oppoiste of mediocrity, stupidity, and hubris

The ending was mediocre, allowing two people to write it without peer review was stupid and not changing it when they had a shot because "they knew better" was an act if hubris.

Well... in another thread you stated "All in all, if Drew gave me an ending in a high note I would have excused some execution flaws"

So, you favor mediocrity in turn of a "happy ending" where Shepard lives.


Being unable to have both and having to choose I will take the option with the happy ending where Shepard lives


You know, I need to ask if there is a credible source that proves two people wrote it. I know people cite that supposed post by Pat Weeks, but there is no way to colloborate it as true, let alone a viable source of information. 

#78
LinksOcarina

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Malchat wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

There is no way to really colloborate it. If the rumor was true, then the 3 million sales earned was not enough, like Tomb Raider failing to hit its own mark despite making 3.4 million in sales for Square Enix. 

If it isen't true, we can only speculate on the financial strengths of the company. Mass Effect was their biggest seller, however, at 3 million at the time. That I am pretty sure of. 


It's an interesting rumour, to be sure (cheers for bringing it up.)

While I agree that nobody in business would admit to dire straits, I don't recall any news about restructuring and layoffs in the Bioware/Pandemic joint at the time.

There is also this news from 2006 (one year prior to the EA acquisition... they seemed to have been firing on all cylinders.)

I believe the merger with Pandemic and the EA deal really boosted Bioware initially. It probably helped them become a more mature business with a huge marketing engine backing up their releases. Apparently they also kept most of their creative control. I don't subscribe to the 'EA evil overlord' view on things; I suspect that the influx of corporate culture, responsbility to shareholder interests (mostly in terms of release windows and audience demographs) and a fascination with new business/monetisation models were all things Bioware voluntarily absorbed without being ordered around by the parent company.

Everything points to them always having creative control so their misfires are on Bioware alone. In my view, there's no evidence EA 'rescued' Bioware... but conversely, there is no proof EA directly caused some of their stumbling.


I do remember Greg Z talking about the EA bearhug, and there is some audio out there regarding the sort of laize faire with BioWare for the most part. I don't think it was a rescue per-se, but I do think it helped BioWare in the long term because they got both funding and acess to new venues to develop games. As for EA, it's a question on how they operate with BioWare.

Under Riccitello it was mostly "do what you can with the franchies" and leave them to their own device. Give them money and a list of what we like to try and improve it, and let them do it their way. It's why I like the multiplayer in Mass Effect 3, its very Team Fortress-esque and fun to play because it had a hook and purpose. Other companies, like Activision, Naughty Dog or 2k, would do the shoe-horn job I feel.

I think the issue is more about honing our business sense. We all know companies like Nintendo want to make money. We need to stop the rose-tinted glasses and understand that, but at the same time. Did EA cause stumbling? Possibly, well never know. But BioWare is still here, and they are still making games. So we can only hope the fans still enjoy them in the end as we move forward.

#79
Malchat

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LinksOcarina wrote...

You know, I need to ask if there is a credible source that proves two people wrote it. I know people cite that supposed post by Pat Weeks, but there is no way to colloborate it as true, let alone a viable source of information. 


A fair point and we don't know enough to confirm the validity of Weekes statements (although I'd never go as far as to claim that he didn't post it at all and had his confirmed Penny Arcade account 'hacked', that's beyond credibility in my view.)

However, the notion that two people wrote it is not that surprising considering what we know of their creative pipeline (dividing up story sections/characters among the writing team). We also know they were crunched for time to get the finale done (Hudson's statements in the Final Hours app) so the idea that they didn't peer review the final draft seems plausible.

But even so, we also know from the Final Hours app and the leaked beta notes that many of the elements that failed to resonate with the hardcore fanbase (endings that spark 'speculation', implications of a galactic dark age, the Guardian/Catalyst dictating Shepard's options, Shepard's sacrifice not being voluntarily but mandated) were present early in production and, presumably, discussed with the entire creative team.

Who actually created the dialogue of the final scenes isn't really the issue, it could have been any two writers: it's the concept of the finale that many object to. The constant bashing of two lead developers may be cathartic but it's unwarranted and not helping anyone. For proof, look to the Extended Cut, which is presumably the best effort of all writers together: the final scenes still play out clunky and disconnected from the rest of the game whether or not you like what they accomplish.

I believe the ending controversy has its roots in developer tunnel vision, the realities of complex project management and no coherent vision on theme, tone and narrative throughout the trilogy.

Well, that and a fanbase that's rather... passionate . :wizard: 

The best game series of a generation? Nah, too many rough edges. Fantastic ride? Definitely.

Modifié par Malchat, 06 décembre 2013 - 01:21 .


#80
Darks1d3

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Argentoid wrote...

Straken-SWE wrote...

ME3 is f****** awesome, love it. ME2 has a better story but gameplay is.. hm., ok.


Here's where I jump in.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


What? Not going to Use the Steve Carell "NOOOOO" GIF again? 

I have to say of all the games I've played, the ME series is by far the best I've played. There were a few pitfalls to be sure, but all in all it was a great ride. I hope the next series is as engaging and fun.

#81
Pee Jae

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None of the three are my favorite game of all time. That honor goes to The Last of Us. But, it is my favorite game series despite my many nitpicks with it.

#82
liggy002

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This series was excellent until ME3 came out. At that point, it took a steep nose dive which ultimately resulted in a fiery crash. Many fans abandoned the plane, myself included. Priority: Earth, along with that horrific set of endings that followed (post Extended Cut), completely ruined the series for me. Not only do I loathe the idea of ever touching this trilogy again but I am completely turned off by the idea of ME 4.

That said, I would only ever touch this series if I rewrote the ending and majorly modded the final mission and ending (professionally, a complete remake).

Modifié par liggy002, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:35 .


#83
CronoDragoon

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liggy002 wrote...

This series was excellent until ME3 came out. At that point, it took a steep nose dive which ultimately resulted in a fiery crash. Many fans abandoned the plane, myself included. Priority: Earth, along with that horrific set of endings that followed (post Extended Cut), completely ruined the series for me. Not only do I loathe the idea of ever touching this trilogy again but I am completely turned off by the idea of ME 4.

That said, I would only ever touch this series if I rewrote the ending and majorly modded the final mission and ending (professionally, a complete remake).


I don't believe you. You'll buy ME4. Then you'll say it was because of "morbid curiosity."

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:43 .


#84
KaiserShep

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Eh, pre-EC I'd be pretty hostile towards the game, but I just can't, especially since I never played until the ending was revised. As much as I complain about things in the game, I love all 3 of them, and play 3 the most out of the lot.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:02 .


#85
RogueBot

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CronoDragoon wrote...

I don't believe you. You'll buy ME4. Then you'll say it was because of "morbid curiosity."


Maybe he'll rent it instead, you don't know. I'll buy ME4, but after DA2 I'd rather wait a couple days for Gamefly to arrive than pay $60 for Inquisition.

#86
KaiserShep

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My purchase will be more affected by whether or not it's available for current gen consoles. If it's not, then I guess I'll wait a few years.

#87
Darks1d3

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 No ****, I won't be able to spend $500 dollars in one pop anytime soon.

#88
liggy002

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CronoDragoon wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

This series was excellent until ME3 came out. At that point, it took a steep nose dive which ultimately resulted in a fiery crash. Many fans abandoned the plane, myself included. Priority: Earth, along with that horrific set of endings that followed (post Extended Cut), completely ruined the series for me. Not only do I loathe the idea of ever touching this trilogy again but I am completely turned off by the idea of ME 4.

That said, I would only ever touch this series if I rewrote the ending and majorly modded the final mission and ending (professionally, a complete remake).


I don't believe you. You'll buy ME4. Then you'll say it was because of "morbid curiosity."


Bioware and myself are at a major disagreement about how ME3 should have ended, including the structuring of the final mission.  I had surmised that they would improve upon this with the Citadel DLC which is why I even bothered purchasing it.  However, the DLC fell far short of my expectations.  I do not expect that ME4 will be worth my time.  In fact, I am almost certain that it is not.  Therefore, I will not be buying it.

Modifié par liggy002, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:32 .


#89
CronoDragoon

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liggy002 wrote...
Bioware and myself are at a major disagreement about how ME3 should have ended, including the structuring of the final mission.  I had surmised that they would improve upon this with the Citadel DLC which is why I even bothered purchasing it.


That's your fault. They said they were done with the endings and that Citadel wouldn't change them. Hoping otherwise was delusional.

However, the DLC fell far short of my expectations.  I do not expect that ME4 will be worth my time.  In fact, I am almost certain that it is not.  Therefore, I will not be buying it.


Like I said, I don't believe you.

Also, lol@ a rewrite by you being "professionally" done.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 06 décembre 2013 - 02:49 .


#90
Farangbaa

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liggy002 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

This series was excellent until ME3 came out. At that point, it took a steep nose dive which ultimately resulted in a fiery crash. Many fans abandoned the plane, myself included. Priority: Earth, along with that horrific set of endings that followed (post Extended Cut), completely ruined the series for me. Not only do I loathe the idea of ever touching this trilogy again but I am completely turned off by the idea of ME 4.

That said, I would only ever touch this series if I rewrote the ending and majorly modded the final mission and ending (professionally, a complete remake).


I don't believe you. You'll buy ME4. Then you'll say it was because of "morbid curiosity."


Bioware and myself are at a major disagreement about how ME3 should have ended, including the structuring of the final mission.  I had surmised that they would improve upon this with the Citadel DLC which is why I even bothered purchasing it.  However, the DLC fell far short of my expectations.  I do not expect that ME4 will be worth my time.  In fact, I am almost certain that it is not.  Therefore, I will not be buying it.


You will buy it. Everybody who's still on this forum will buy it.

#91
crimzontearz

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You will buy it. Everybody who's still on this forum will buy it.

Very doubtful, I am certainly NOT buying it if it turns out to be a prequel

#92
AlanC9

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liggy002 wrote...

Bioware and myself are at a major disagreement about how ME3 should have ended, including the structuring of the final mission.  I had surmised that they would improve upon this with the Citadel DLC which is why I even bothered purchasing it.  However, the DLC fell far short of my expectations. 


Those seem like fairly silly expectations. Where'd you get the idea that Citadel had anything to do with the ending?

#93
CronoDragoon

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Psychevore wrote...

You will buy it. Everybody who's still on this forum will buy it.


I don't know if that's necessarily true, but liggy in particular has no credibility given his propensity to keep posting (often inane) threads on these forums after "leaving" the forums multiple times, often loudly. If his self-restraint regarding Mass Effect games remotely resembles his forum behavior, it will be on his shelf.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:18 .


#94
dreamgazer

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Did Harbinger ever dissolve that restraining order he filed against you, liggy?

#95
Kel Riever

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IT'S THE NEGATIVIY!

Image IPB

It can't be that ME3 had an atrocious ending, regardless of personal tastes.

Nah.

OP ignores the forums. Except when he comes here. Hmmn...

Moar you will buy it anyway!  If that level of blind faith equalled money, I'd have all the DLC after the EC by now.

Prove your fandom.  Buy me the last 3 DLCs.  Friend request me and I'll send you my PayPal info.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:29 .


#96
in it for the lolz

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Psychevore wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

This series was excellent until ME3 came out. At that point, it took a steep nose dive which ultimately resulted in a fiery crash. Many fans abandoned the plane, myself included. Priority: Earth, along with that horrific set of endings that followed (post Extended Cut), completely ruined the series for me. Not only do I loathe the idea of ever touching this trilogy again but I am completely turned off by the idea of ME 4.

That said, I would only ever touch this series if I rewrote the ending and majorly modded the final mission and ending (professionally, a complete remake).


I don't believe you. You'll buy ME4. Then you'll say it was because of "morbid curiosity."


Bioware and myself are at a major disagreement about how ME3 should have ended, including the structuring of the final mission.  I had surmised that they would improve upon this with the Citadel DLC which is why I even bothered purchasing it.  However, the DLC fell far short of my expectations.  I do not expect that ME4 will be worth my time.  In fact, I am almost certain that it is not.  Therefore, I will not be buying it.


You will buy it. Everybody who's still on this forum will buy it.

I dont buy junk.

#97
dreamgazer

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Kel Riever wrote...

Prove your fandom.  Buy me the last 3 DLCs.  Friend request me and I'll send you my PayPal info.


Pretty silly, Kel. 

#98
Kel Riever

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dreamgazer wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Prove your fandom.  Buy me the last 3 DLCs.  Friend request me and I'll send you my PayPal info.


Pretty silly, Kel. 


You say that but I almost had a taker, once.  He offered to buy my Leviathan DLC but didn't come through.

And I argue, not nearly as silly as fanbois who swear they will buy 3 copies of a DLC because they love BioWare so much.  At least I am giving them an opportunity to not lie or have to buy it across different platforms. 

Who's silly now? Image IPB

#99
dreamgazer

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Kel Riever wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Prove your fandom.  Buy me the last 3 DLCs.  Friend request me and I'll send you my PayPal info.


Pretty silly, Kel. 


You say that but I almost had a taker, once.  He offered to buy my Leviathan DLC but didn't come through.

And I argue, not nearly as silly as fanbois who swear they will buy 3 copies of a DLC because they love BioWare so much.  At least I am giving them an opportunity to not lie or have to buy it across different platforms. 

Who's silly now? Image IPB


Do you really want an answer to that, man?

#100
Kel Riever

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:D I will be silly if people buy me DLC. And my promise to them is that I will say they are a true fan. Because, they actually did what a lot of people simply claim to do, which is buy multiple copies of a DLC.

You should get on this train. Really, it can't hurt to ask. Plus, I am giving people the chance to be honest. *looking for my halo*