169 réponses à ce sujet

[Bizantura]

ME trilogy gameplay matured nicely from 1 to 3. I play ME3 the most. The story isn't perfect and the ending certainly wasn't but overall way better then most RPG's. I look forward to what they cook up for us in the next ME world.

EA is a multi national that behaves like one, so no news there. However I don't hold them responsable for the problems within Bioware. For me it seems more of a problem that Bioware can't make up there minds / or are devided about which demografic to cater to. The broader the demografic the more money one would think. However making a RPG for ages 2 to 99 so to speak
is in my opinion not possible = result DAII.

[LinksOcarina]

Kel Riever wrote...

I will be silly if people buy me DLC. And my promise to them is that I will say they are a true fan. Because, they actually did what a lot of people simply claim to do, which is buy multiple copies of a DLC.

You should get on this train. Really, it can't hurt to ask. Plus, I am giving people the chance to be honest. *looking for my halo*

Eh, just get a job and buy it on sale. Taunting folks to purchase stuff you makes you look like a fool. 

True fans don't need to buy people anything. True fans continue the discussion on here. Like you. 

[LinksOcarina]

Malchat wrote...

 

LinksOcarina wrote...

You know, I need to ask if there is a credible source that proves two people wrote it. I know people cite that supposed post by Pat Weeks, but there is no way to colloborate it as true, let alone a viable source of information. 

A fair point and we don't know enough to confirm the validity of Weekes statements (although I'd never go as far as to claim that he didn't post it at all and had his confirmed Penny Arcade account 'hacked', that's beyond credibility in my view.)

However, the notion that two people wrote it is not that surprising considering what we know of their creative pipeline (dividing up story sections/characters among the writing team). We also know they were crunched for time to get the finale done (Hudson's statements in the Final Hours app) so the idea that they didn't peer review the final draft seems plausible.

But even so, we also know from the Final Hours app and the leaked beta notes that many of the elements that failed to resonate with the hardcore fanbase (endings that spark 'speculation', implications of a galactic dark age, the Guardian/Catalyst dictating Shepard's options, Shepard's sacrifice not being voluntarily but mandated) were present early in production and, presumably, discussed with the entire creative team.

Who actually created the dialogue of the final scenes isn't really the issue, it could have been any two writers: it's the concept of the finale that many object to. The constant bashing of two lead developers may be cathartic but it's unwarranted and not helping anyone. For proof, look to the Extended Cut, which is presumably the best effort of all writers together: the final scenes still play out clunky and disconnected from the rest of the game whether or not you like what they accomplish.

I believe the ending controversy has its roots in developer tunnel vision, the realities of complex project management and no coherent vision on theme, tone and narrative throughout the trilogy.

Well, that and a fanbase that's rather... passionate .  

The best game series of a generation? Nah, too many rough edges. Fantastic ride? Definitely.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was just two people, compartmentalizing a game is something BioWare has done since Kotor I believe. I guess I am saying that I doubt it wasn't peer reviewed, because that was the next complaint people leverage on it. Again, no way of knowing. 

Considering most of the elements present in the final mix of the endings also makes it nearly impossible to suggest that only Walters and Hudson had a hand in the input of the ending. As for the concept, I discussed this many times really as a welcome one for more philosophical reasons that allow us to continue this discussion. It is an anti-video game ending, and I love it for that because we need more of it's kind.

This is also why its the best game of this generation. The entire trilogy will be remembered ten, twenty, thirty years from now, and will have the same level of curiosity, resepect, and discussion as any zelda or mario game out there. I guarentee we will be talking about, playing, and remembering Mass Effect like its the next Ocarina of Time. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Considering most of the elements present in the final mix of the endings also makes it nearly impossible to suggest that only Walters and Hudson had a hand in the input of the ending. As for the concept, I discussed this many times really as a welcome one for more philosophical reasons that allow us to continue this discussion. It is an anti-video game ending, and I love it for that because we need more of it's kind.

What's an anti-video game ending?

[Kel Riever]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I will be silly if people buy me DLC. And my promise to them is that I will say they are a true fan. Because, they actually did what a lot of people simply claim to do, which is buy multiple copies of a DLC.

You should get on this train. Really, it can't hurt to ask. Plus, I am giving people the chance to be honest. *looking for my halo*

Eh, just get a job and buy it on sale. Taunting folks to purchase stuff you makes you look like a fool. 

True fans don't need to buy people anything. True fans continue the discussion on here. Like you. 

Again, being called a fool versus potential free DLC.

I'm telling you, people need to get over their images of themselves.  Everybody is a fool.  I'm going to be the fool who gets some other fool to pay for my DLC.

[CronoDragoon]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

What's an anti-video game ending?

Essentially subversive of typical video-game checklists. Boss battle, power fantasy, etc.

[durasteel]

LinksOcarina wrote...
...
Considering most of the elements present in the final mix of the endings also makes it nearly impossible to suggest that only Walters and Hudson had a hand in the input of the ending. As for the concept, I discussed this many times really as a welcome one for more philosophical reasons that allow us to continue this discussion. It is an anti-video game ending, and I love it for that because we need more of it's kind.
...

I don't know about it being an "anti-video-game" ending, I'm just very comfortable with making an unequivocal assertion that it was anti-good.

I don't want to re-hash all the aspects of the ending's abyssmal failure, it's been done to death. I would encourage you, however, to consume a tiny sliver of the media featuring analysis of the ending from the perspective of narrative continuity. It would fail as egregiously as an ending to a novel, a movie, a television show or season, or a comic.

Also, there is a fair amount of material out there (like the iOS  App) that strongly suggests that Mr. Walters was the writer for the ending, and that under tremendous time pressure he banged out the star kid scene with voice actors already in the booth. Of course, none of us know the entire or fully accurate story, but...

I suppose my point is that I do not agree with you, at all, in the context of your statment that I quoted. Mass Effect 3 was not a bad game, and it had moments of brilliance. Most of the writing and voice acting was definately award-worthy, but the ending was a sour note of such striking dissonance that it deeply tarnished the entire game. The opening sequence was also quite poorly done, but it is much easier to ignore because it obviously lacked much finallity. 

Modifié par durasteel, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:02 .

[Argentoid]

Kel Riever wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I will be silly if people buy me DLC. And my promise to them is that I will say they are a true fan. Because, they actually did what a lot of people simply claim to do, which is buy multiple copies of a DLC.

You should get on this train. Really, it can't hurt to ask. Plus, I am giving people the chance to be honest. *looking for my halo*

Eh, just get a job and buy it on sale. Taunting folks to purchase stuff you makes you look like a fool. 

True fans don't need to buy people anything. True fans continue the discussion on here. Like you. 

Again, being called a fool versus potential free DLC.

I'm telling you, people need to get over their images of themselves.  Everybody is a fool.  I'm going to be the fool who gets some other fool to pay for my DLC.

No, mostly you're just a douche for doing that, for convincing someone (I wonder how you managed that, unless it was a friend of yours) to buy you some DLC.

But also you are a fool for rubbing it on our faces like "hey guyz, i wont bai dlc cuz imma againzt biowere cuz u know da endingz. plus, someone els almost bougt it 4 me.... so smurt, so clever unlaik u fanbois"

Not to mention being so serious about this "I'm not giving BioWare my munny", which is kind of funny and contradictory: You actually made someone almost buy you the DLC, which is like telling your dad "CAN YOU BUY ME SOME DLC PLEASE?!"... you may not buy the DLC, but still someone is doing it for you and BioWare still gets the money. Not helping "the cause".

[elrofrost]

ioannisdenton wrote...

As this gen is over i am runnning a final (propably not) trilogy playthrough from scratch. The feelings i get once more are exquisite. Finished Me1 today (64 hours on hardcore with a renegade enginees - wrex died) and tomorrow i ll begin Me2.
This game series marked my gaming life. It is the best most memorable (along with deus ex games) games for me.
I feel priviledged having played Mass effect games.
I ve quit visiting these forums since summer as i wanted to fend off the negativity and the myth that Me3 is a bad game when clearly me3 improves in almost all aspects from previous me games  and especially Me1 (which i repeat finished again today for the 4th time).

Thanks bioware.

QFT. Though these forums aren't so bad. 

I've been gaming since the early 80's  and after hundreds of games I keep coming back to this series. To replay; try different senarios; different Shepards (I download different saves and start at ME2 - or I just replay ME1 a certain way); I ****, moan, complain but  I'm still playing.

A few other games/series do come to mind that I can compare: Elder Scrolls, Zelda, RE, or an MMO I keep running back to now and then- Eve or Warcraft. ME is on the same level as these games. For me anyway.

[Argentoid]

Darks1d3 wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

Straken-SWE wrote...

ME3 is f****** awesome, love it. ME2 has a better story but gameplay is.. hm., ok.

Here's where I jump in.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

What? Not going to Use the Steve Carell "NOOOOO" GIF again? 

Of course not. Plus, I only used it once and it was the perfect occasion. Good memory, BTW.

Modifié par Argentoid, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:13 .

[AlanC9]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I will be silly if people buy me DLC. And my promise to them is that I will say they are a true fan. Because, they actually did what a lot of people simply claim to do, which is buy multiple copies of a DLC.

*

Eh, just get a job and buy it on sale. 

They have sales?

[Kel Riever]

Argentoid wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I will be silly if people buy me DLC. And my promise to them is that I will say they are a true fan. Because, they actually did what a lot of people simply claim to do, which is buy multiple copies of a DLC.

You should get on this train. Really, it can't hurt to ask. Plus, I am giving people the chance to be honest. *looking for my halo*

Eh, just get a job and buy it on sale. Taunting folks to purchase stuff you makes you look like a fool. 

True fans don't need to buy people anything. True fans continue the discussion on here. Like you. 

Again, being called a fool versus potential free DLC.

I'm telling you, people need to get over their images of themselves.  Everybody is a fool.  I'm going to be the fool who gets some other fool to pay for my DLC.

No, mostly you're just a douche for doing that, for convincing someone (I wonder how you managed that, unless it was a friend of yours) to buy you some DLC.

But also you are a fool for rubbing it on our faces like "hey guyz, i wont bai dlc cuz imma againzt biowere cuz u know da endingz. plus, someone els almost bougt it 4 me.... so smurt, so clever unlaik u fanbois"

Not to mention being so serious about this "I'm not giving BioWare my munny", which is kind of funny and contradictory: You actually made someone almost buy you the DLC, which is like telling your dad "CAN YOU BUY ME SOME DLC PLEASE?!"... you may not buy the DLC, but still someone is doing it for you and BioWare still gets the money. Not helping "the cause".

Right, name calling.  Who's serious now?

I love your hypocrisy.  Look at you, all mad.

I feel like I already won this argument. 

Modifié par Kel Riever, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[angol fear]

durasteel wrote...

I don't know about it being an "anti-video-game" ending, I'm just very comfortable with making an unequivocal assertion that it was anti-good.

I don't want to re-hash all the aspects of the ending's abyssmal failure, it's been done to death. I would encourage you, however, to consume a tiny sliver of the media featuring analysis of the ending from the perspective of narrative continuity. It would fail as egregiously as an ending to a novel, a movie, a television show or season, or a comic.

From the perspective of the narrative, the orignal ending is far from being a failure, it's just the opposite. If the "analysis" you're talking about are the one on internet, they are mostly amateur. Using vocabulary of narrative analysis isn't enough to make a real analysis. I didn't see a real critic on internet and I take a look whenever someone is posting an "analysis". You shouldn't be so self-confident when you talk about the ending.

[liggy002]

Crono, why would I waste my time with that garbage when quality games that actually exceed my expectations such as the Witcher 3 are coming soon? If expecting a logical and quality storyline with substance that actually delivers on previous promises is delusional, then consider me delusional. Bioware can do no wrong, they are gods in your view. Bio drone alert! It must be quality if Bioware made it even though it was terribly rushed.

Modifié par liggy002, 07 décembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[wolfhowwl]

^still being that butthurt over Mass Effect 3.

The rest of you, don't be like that guy.

[dreamgazer]

liggy002 wrote...

Crono, why would I waste my time with that garbage when quality games that actually exceed my expectations such as the Witcher 3 are coming soon? If expecting a logical and quality storyline with substance that actually delivers on previous promises is delusional, then consider me delusional. Bioware can do no wrong, they are gods in your view. Bio drone alert! It must be quality if Bioware made it even though it was terribly rushed.

Ew.  Really, liggy?  You're going in this direction? 

And no, BioWare isn't flawless.  They've never been flawless, nor has the Mass Effect series before ME3. Far from it.

[wolfhowwl]

Is liggy one of those that holds ME2 up on a pedestal and then slams ME3?

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 07 décembre 2013 - 04:11 .

[KaiserShep]

liggy002 wrote...

Crono, why would I waste my time with that garbage when quality games that actually exceed my expectations such as the Witcher 3 are coming soon? If expecting a logical and quality storyline with substance that actually delivers on previous promises is delusional, then consider me delusional. Bioware can do no wrong, they are gods in your view. Bio drone alert! It must be quality if Bioware made it even though it was terribly rushed.

I like how a game that has not been released yet has exceeded your expectations. PM me some lotto numbers because I could really use the money.

[Argentoid]

Right, name calling.  Who's serious now?

I love your hypocrisy.  Look at you, all mad.

I feel like I already won this argument. 

Was there any hypocrisy of mine, Kal?

Feel whatever you want to feel my kind sir, but with an attitude like that, you will always think you won any argument (cause it seems like you always think so)

HO HO HO 

Modifié par Argentoid, 07 décembre 2013 - 04:16 .

[CronoDragoon]

liggy002 wrote...

Crono, why would I waste my time with that garbage when quality games that actually exceed my expectations such as the Witcher 3 are coming soon?

As has been covered, this statement makes no sense.

If expecting a logical and quality storyline with substance that actually delivers on previous promises is delusional, then consider me delusional.

Uh, you're delusional for thinking Citadel would change the ending. That's really all there is to that.

Bioware can do no wrong, they are gods in your view. Bio drone alert! It must be quality if Bioware made it even though it was terribly rushed.

Hahahahahaha. Noob forum go-er alert!

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...

Is the Witcher really that good?

The Witcher 2 is very good, but overhyped by former BW fans disallusioned with ME3.

[ImaginaryMatter]

angol fear wrote...

durasteel wrote...

I don't know about it being an "anti-video-game" ending, I'm just very comfortable with making an unequivocal assertion that it was anti-good.

I don't want to re-hash all the aspects of the ending's abyssmal failure, it's been done to death. I would encourage you, however, to consume a tiny sliver of the media featuring analysis of the ending from the perspective of narrative continuity. It would fail as egregiously as an ending to a novel, a movie, a television show or season, or a comic.

From the perspective of the narrative, the orignal ending is far from being a failure, it's just the opposite. If the "analysis" you're talking about are the one on internet, they are mostly amateur. Using vocabulary of narrative analysis isn't enough to make a real analysis. I didn't see a real critic on internet and I take a look whenever someone is posting an "analysis". You shouldn't be so self-confident when you talk about the ending.

I think he's talking about general storytelling guidelines and rules of dramatic structure that were ignored during the ending. Also I think most video game reviews, especially ones that review story telling elements, are on the internet.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

People who say ME3 is a bad game either haven't played any other games or simply don't know what they're talking about. Nothing more to discuss there.

About the games themselves they're very very good yes. They were without a doubt my favorite games a year or so ago, but I'd be lying if I said they still were. GTA V, Max Payne 3 and other Rockstar games have kind of taken over that spot. Still though, the ME games are right up there with them.

Edit: And to the people who asked if The Witcher 2 is any good: No. It really isn't. Terribly overrated RPG with bad combat, bad story and extremely uninteresting characters. People mostly praise it because the embarrasing sex scenes make them feel adult and mature, because they show ******. Avoid it.

Modifié par Brovikk Rasputin, 07 décembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[Malchat]

LinksOcarina wrote...

The entire trilogy will be remembered ten, twenty, thirty years from now, and will have the same level of curiosity, resepect, and discussion as any zelda or mario game out there. I guarentee we will be talking about, playing, and remembering Mass Effect like its the next Ocarina of Time. 

I believe the execution of the ending and the backlash are forever linked. Is this fair? Maybe not... but considering the way people talk about/report on, say, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Happy Days or the Star Wars prequels, it seems fan outrage can shape the public's longterm perception quite a bit.

Bioware seems to share your optimism however, firm in their resolve to never discuss their intentions and artistic choices and emphasizing the game's commercial and critical success repeatedly (and occasionally marginalizing the backlash.)

If Mass Effect has its place in gaming history, I think it'll be because of pioneering cinematic storytelling and its inclusive attitude to gender and sexuality, still a sad rarity in AAA gaming. Their willingness to address the ending backlash with free content is also one for the history books. These accomplshments aside, I sincerely doubt ME's finale will be retroactively celebrated in the future... unless, by some miracle, the next ME reframes it in the context of a larger story.

Modifié par Malchat, 07 décembre 2013 - 12:42 .