30 réponses à ce sujet

[Xamufam]

from leaked script
The platform Shepard was on begins to rise up into GUARDIAN's garden where he is faced with his final decision.

What garden? Where is this from, can anyone tell me?

never mind found it

Modifié par Troxa, 28 novembre 2013 - 05:39 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

From the leaked script that you just mentioned.

[Xamufam]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

From the leaked script that you just mentioned.

I ment what garden, googled it found reflections of trees in a youtube clip
should have done that before making the thread

Modifié par Troxa, 28 novembre 2013 - 05:50 .

[Linkenski]

"Guardian" was the concept name for what became the Catalyst, and supposedly they tried to aim at something even more abstract than what we got in the original endings, but I think the whole "garden" idea was scrapped because it was too out of tone (like they fixed that -.-) or because the art designers didn't know how to wrap their head around it.

I think the name "Guardian's Garden" hints that the original meeting with the Catalyst was more like the dream-sequences, hence a "garden" instead of a physical part of the citadel.

I think ultimately the idea was changed or scrapped because it was way too vague and nonsensical. How would Shepard's "final decision" matter if he's in a dream?

Modifié par Linkenski, 28 novembre 2013 - 05:53 .

[EatChildren]

Troxa wrote...

I meant what garden, googled it found reflections of trees in a youtube clip

No garden, because it wasn't in the final game, and thus doesn't exist. Leaked script =/= final script.

[ElSuperGecko]

Troxa wrote...
What garden? Where is this from, can anyone tell me?

Maybe this one?

"It not right.  It LOOKS pretty... calm and peaceful.  But it's not right."

Self-referential Bioware FTW!

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 28 novembre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Argentoid]

 There is an actual leftover of GUARDIAN's garden.

[Argentoid]

Linkenski wrote...

I think ultimately the idea was changed or scrapped because it was way too vague and nonsensical. How would Shepard's "final decision" matter if he's in a dream?

It could matter if it played out like in Leviathan's DLC ending. If the same communication method was used (which I made up a theory about it), I don't see any complications, in fact, it would make more sense as how Shepard can breath in space, see a holographic display of the kid he saw on Earth, hearing his own voice like an echo when the Catalyst talks and yadda yadda yadda.

Modifié par Argentoid, 28 novembre 2013 - 05:52 .

[dreamgazer]

"In the Garden we are growing,
many changes there'll be flowing,
if you wanna be amazing,
see the flowers we've been raising"

[Linkenski]

Oh yes of course, but the leaked script still had the Crucible, so how would "the final decision within a dream" decide in what way Shepard activated it?

[ElSuperGecko]

Argentoid wrote...
It could matter if it played out like in Leviathan's DLC ending. If the same communication method is used, I don't see any complications.

Yup.  The Leviathan DLC shows that they (and by extension, the being they created and the Reapers) are able to project an image into the mind of those they communicate with.

Oh look, an explanation for why the Catalyst looks like the kid we saw on Earth.  The kid haunting Shepard's dreams.  Who knew?!

[Linkenski]

I keep thinking it's like the ending of The Legend of Zelda - Majora's Mask (or inspired at least) where the goal is to stop a moon that's crashing down dooming an entire world, essentially, because a cursed mask caused it to fall, and to stop it, you must enter the evil moon towards the end. When you do that you find yourself in a wide dreamscape garden-area with kids playing around with masks on and what they say when you talk to them raises key themes of the story, and when you talk to the kid with Majora's Mask (the evil cursed mask) on, he takes you to the final battle with the evil spirit that presides within the mask.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_q9Vy3YIGZck/TCrD2DutN8I/AAAAAAAAAJ8/QvrxmZDDCYU/s1600/Zelda+-+Majora's+Mask+89+moon.jpg

Modifié par Linkenski, 28 novembre 2013 - 05:54 .

[Xamufam]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

I believe it's more likely that the reapers created the kid from the beginning, the reapers can create hallucinations 
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

Modifié par Troxa, 28 novembre 2013 - 06:31 .

[Clayless]

Argentoid wrote...

 There is an actual leftover of GUARDIAN's garden.

That's actually quite cool.

[ElSuperGecko]

Troxa wrote...
It's more likely that the reapers created the kid from the beginning
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

You won't be seeing much in the way of an argument there, Troxa.

We only ever see one kid in the entire Mass Effect Universe, and boy, does that kid royally screw Shepard up.

[Linkenski]

C'mon what are you saying, it made him so emotional, and it was totally okay to make the Kid important enough so he represented the Reapers in the ending. Not forced at all.

[dreamgazer]

Kid himself important enough? Nope.

What the kid represents? Yup.

[Daemul]

Argentoid wrote...

 There is an actual leftover of GUARDIAN's garden.

How in the hell have I never noticed this before?

I'm guessing that BioWare originally planned for there to be a secret garden at the top of the Citadel where the Catalyst aka Guardian stayed. That would haver been pretty cool i think. 

[Daemul]

Troxa wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

I believe it's more likely that the reapers created the kid from the beginning, the reapers can create hallucinations 
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

I would agree with you if the kids picture did not appear on the Memorial War in the Citdeal Loading Docks. If Bioware planned on him being a hallucination they should have put his picture where any player who spent any amount of time looking at the memorial would have noticed it.

Where it is at the moment means the vast majority of players won't ever notice it bexcause you either have to spend time looking at every picture like I did or someone has to tell you exactly where it is because otherwise you ain't finding it. 

Anyone who's interested in knowing where it's located it's right in the bottom centre of the the Memorial Wall. 

[SwobyJ]

Daemul wrote...

Troxa wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

I believe it's more likely that the reapers created the kid from the beginning, the reapers can create hallucinations 
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

I would agree with you if the kids picture did not appear on the Memorial War in the Citdeal Loading Docks. If Bioware planned on him being a hallucination they should have put his picture where any player who spent any amount of time looking at the memorial would have noticed it.

Where it is at the moment means the vast majority of players won't ever notice it bexcause you either have to spend time looking at every picture like I did or someone has to tell you exactly where it is because otherwise you ain't finding it. 

Anyone who's interested in knowing where it's located it's right in the bottom centre of the the Memorial Wall. 

So? The Memorial Wall/Allers' Wall/etc has a lot of stuff.

It also has a picture of the original conception of John Shepard (before ShepLoo face) saying "John, call home."

Hallucinations don't have to be huge and in your face, by the way. They can be tiny and affect only the edges of your consciousness.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 novembre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Xamufam]

Daemul wrote...

Here is my sources why I believe he isn't real
electrical hazard symbol outside where you talk to the kid (core egineering office)
http://social.biowar.../index/17086879
the long distance he is running in such a short time
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=29m8s
the
growl that indicates that a person is resisting indoctrination the kid
is gone after it, it's stated in the novel me: redemption
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=32m7s

Modifié par Troxa, 28 novembre 2013 - 07:53 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Troxa wrote...

Here is my sources why I believe he isn't real
electrical hazard symbol outside where you talk to the kid (core egineering office)
http://social.biowar.../index/17086879
the long distance he is running in such a short time
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=29m8s
the
growl that indicates that a person is resisting indoctrination the kid
is gone after it, it's stated in the novel me: redemption
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=32m7s

You forgot the danger signs next to him on the evacuation shuttle, and the fact that no one at all tries to help the abandoned kid or (other than Shepard) even appears to notice him during that scene..
And of course, the "you can't help me" disappearing act.

SEEMS LEGIT.

[Linkenski]

I do find it kinda curious about the danger signs, but everything else is definitely circumstantial. Either way I don't think it has anything to do with indoctrination. IT'ers were always going completely "Number 23!" about it. The running distance is a game-mechanical/animation roughness. Shepard also teleports through a door before it's even opened in several cutscenes. That doesn't imply anything other than the animation being a little unpolished or out of context. It's a common flaw in MEU.

[Sion1138]

It's in the dream sequences.

They intended it for the ending also, but then changed it.

[AlanC9]

SwobyJ wrote...

Daemul wrote...
Anyone who's interested in knowing where it's located it's right in the bottom centre of the the Memorial Wall. 

So? The Memorial Wall/Allers' Wall/etc has a lot of stuff.

It also has a picture of the original conception of John Shepard (before ShepLoo face) saying "John, call home."

Hallucinations don't have to be huge and in your face, by the way. They can be tiny and affect only the edges of your consciousness.

Give it up, Daemul. Any evidence you find just gets rolled into the theory as another hallucination.