416 réponses à ce sujet

[todahouse21]

Why is it that there is seemingly a crowd out there that feel that the game is somehow lessened because it doesn't specifically meet the specifications to make it a pure RPG?

 Call me crazy but as long as its fun, the can call the genre Bob and I wouldn't care.

It obviously doesn't have anything to do with challenge, since its been stated that this game was specifically made to be harder than the original. It's not the actual role playing as Shepard is pretty much define by your decisions. It's not the exploration. 

Is it the lack of grind? Of random encounters? Of prepubescent teens and effeminate heroes saving the world?

What is it?

[KBGeller]

No, RPG purists are crazy and only like pure RPGs. As such, since some of the game's RPG elements have been seemingly diminished. They are scared, and want to whine and complain.

Yes, I agree, it would appear some of the RPG elements have been diminished. I cannot say until I personally play, that the game is worse off for it. I expect the game to be as much fun or more so.

Modifié par KBGeller, 20 janvier 2010 - 03:29 .

[Naltair]

I roll dice and I love Mass Effect.

[Hihogmass]

I agree, 5 stars!

[todahouse21]

But it has to be more than that. In the old forum I read comments that basically said "I can't play this game. It's too dumbed down."



What?



Is it the lack of chocobos? I bet it's the lack of chocobos.

[Aradace]

todahouse21 wrote...

But it has to be more than that. In the old forum I read comments that basically said "I can't play this game. It's too dumbed down."

What?

Is it the lack of chocobos? I bet it's the lack of chocobos.

Waaaarkk!!! Warrk!!

[DocLasty]

I honestly think it's just a case of certain people not being able to see the forest for the trees. In certain areas, they've cut back in certain ways. In certain ways, they've expanded and allowed for much more customization than before. It allows for a more accessible experience. Yes, it's easier for laymen to work with and get into. But that doesn't mean it's dumbed down - when you really look into it, you have more choices and powers and options than ever before.

[Naltair]

todahouse21 wrote...

But it has to be more than that. In the old forum I read comments that basically said "I can't play this game. It's too dumbed down."

What?

Is it the lack of chocobos? I bet it's the lack of chocobos.

People like to come up with dumb reasons to hate things.  This is no different.  They want to believe that what they were doing or what they are used to is far superior to what is now the new hotness.  

[merak43]

basicly they think just becase it is a Rpgshooter they think it is more a shooter then a rpg, and (shooter = guys with zero attention span so the game will be over in 2 sek and it will be only fighting in that time (not my opinion or even anyone here just an uneducated guess) that the game is gona be worse becase it is so.

[Aradace]

Hope for the best...Expect the worst. The creed of the Optimistic Pessimist lol

[Darth_Shizz]

www.youtube.com/watch

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KWEHHHH!!! 

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 20 janvier 2010 - 03:43 .

[DPSSOC]

todahouse21 wrote...

 Call me crazy but as long as its fun, the can call the genre Bob and I wouldn't care.

 
QFT

todahouse21 wrote...

Is it the lack of grind? Of random encounters? Of prepubescent teens and effeminate heroes saving the world?

That last really only applies to JRPG's and the Japanese have always been a little weird.

todahouse21 wrote...

But it has to be more than that. In the old forum I read comments that basically said "I can't play this game. It's too dumbed down."

What?

This could be based on the idea that "pure" RPG's rely highly on mathematic probability so perhaps the purists really just want the math.

[Akinra]

I wouldn'y say so much that's it's dumbed down, just more refined.

[todahouse21]

But if they played the original you know that its not over quickly.



And attention span?



Staying alive while checking your ammo while aiming at targets while finding cover



OR



Planning a move. Inactivley watch it play out. Ponder whether to use the magic chrystal of all-encompassing goodness or the dark of (insert random demon name here) on your next turn.



Seriously, I think the shooter aspect requires more attention.

[Wardka]

I don't really know enough about ME2 to say one way or the other; I've just watched a few videos here and there. I was displeased with the reduction of talent ranks, simply because I think stats are a lot of fun. The Fallout 1&2 SPECIAL character system is pretty much my ideal way of handling character customization, if that gives you any idea.



That all having been said, I'm 100% sure ME2 will be fun to play, regardless - I just twitch at "streamlining" ever since Deus Ex 2 was released with everything that made the original Deus Ex fun removed. That's also a shooter-RPG hybrid, by the way.

[brunomalta]

todahouse21 wrote...

But it has to be more than that. In the old forum I read comments that basically said "I can't play this game. It's too dumbed down."

What?

Is it the lack of chocobos? I bet it's the lack of chocobos.

LOL  I agree with you.

[Eragondragonrider]

I a person that has designed and played rpgs for 25 years, I think why most purest are saying ME2 is not a real rpg is because it doesn't have the wait command menu. FFIII set the bar for purest out there and most people want RPGs to be like it because it was such a great for its time. A lot of purest can not get past the idea that RPGs are evolving constantly to get more people into them. I think having a game that it more live action then waiting to chose what you want to do draws you more into the game and story.

Modifié par Eragondragonrider, 20 janvier 2010 - 04:04 .

[phimseto]

LOL...a thread that proves elitism and snark cut both ways.



Excellent.

[FFLB]

Eragondragonrider wrote...

I a person that has designed and played rpgs for 25 years, I think why most purest are saying ME2 is not a real rpg is because it doesn't have the wait command menu. FFIII set the bar for purest out there and most people want RPGs to be like it because it was such a great for its time. A lot of purest can not get past the idea that RPGs are evolving constantly to get more people into them. I think having a game that it more live action then waiting to chose what you want to do draws you more into the game and story.

Heh, if those people just wanted a 'wait' button, they obviously haven't tried pressing the spacebar.

[Vaeliorin]

Eragondragonrider wrote...
I a person that has designed and played rpgs for 25 years, I think why most purest are saying ME2 is not a real rpg is because it doesn't have the wait command menu. FFIII set the bar for purest out there and most people want RPGs to be like it because it was such a great for its time.

RPG Purists don't think JRPGs are RPGs.

A lot of purest can not get past the idea that RPGs are evolving constantly to get more people into them. I think having a game that it more live action then waiting to chose what you want to do draws you more into the game and story.

When you remove the role-playing, you no longer have an RPG.  ME has removed the role-playing, therefore it's not an RPG.  That doesn't mean it's a bad game.  I rather enjoyed ME1, but I would put it in the genre of shooter with RPG elements, not into the RPG genre (there are very, very few games that make it into that genre anymore.  Pretty sure DA was the only mainstream game that fit the genre in 2009.)

[Drake Averrod]

Well since I consider myself to be at least a bit of purist, I have to say seeing some gameplay trailes reduced my joy indeed a bit (still the remeining 6 days feel like a century ).

For example: By making the opening skill minigame based rather than skill oriented as well as the handling of the weapons player oriented and not skill based, ithe game feels for me a bit less "rpgy".

Why? Because I like to play my character under certain premisses. Since no one is a Jack-of-all-trades I feel that skillbased gaming in RPGs is important. By dropping this it's not sheppard who aims/hits but me. Recalling our old pen&paper sessions, our DM once said:"Yeah, you know that...but your character doesn't."

And ultimately this feels a bit like powergaming to me.

Modifié par Drake Averrod, 20 janvier 2010 - 04:18 .

[bjdbwea]

I am what you could call an "RPG purists", even though I liked Mass Effect 1 more than any other game except BG 2. I'd still call ME 1 an RPG, don't know enough to judge if I'd still call ME 2 so.



What bothers me is less that BioWare seem to have removed RGP elements. I didn't play and love ME 1 for the RPG elements, but for the story, choices and interaction with companions and NPCs. It's just that with several things already confirmed to be gone, I fear that those most important aspects may have suffered as well. Because we all know, FPS games usually don't exactly shine in these regards. So it could be tempting to focus on the action, and overlook the more time consuming details that made ME 1 so great. I could be wrong, hope very much to be, but anyway that's the main concern I have right now.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Meh to the purists I say this, define roleplay game?

Last I recalled it was to take the role of a character/group of characters in a story that plays out throughout the game and you get to affect it with your choices that you make whilst improving your characters skills along the way.

From what I've read ME2 has all of this.

To follow on from what EragonDragonRider has said I think the other issue as I've mentioned in another topic is the whole 'combat' side of things. People see 'twitch' based systems and immediately paint them as a 'shooter' game. Last I recalled I don't think the systems have been that dumbed down that there aren't any stats whatsoever. In which case it isn't just a shooter game but still an RPG.

Anyone that says "I don't like it, it isn't an RPG anymore" in my opinion has a poor sense of what an RPG is.

@Bjdbwea - I have faith in Bioware that the story elements are still well and truly solid in there. Story in my opinion has always been one of Biowares strong points and why they stand out as one of the greatest RPG makers in the world. That is the other main element to an RPG that makes it stand above the others.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 20 janvier 2010 - 04:26 .

[Archie591]

I'm quite curious as to who patented the word RPG and where can I find the absolute definition for it. If I'm not mistaken it stands for Role Playing Game. In that sense nearly every game where you control a singular character is a rpg.



Most people classify role playing games, as games where your character evolves and becomes stronger over time. In that case ME still delivers.



Is there a law somewhere that a rpg must have a fixed leveling system, or a certain number of available skills or talents or whatevers to qualify?



This is all so ridiculous if you think about it. RPG purists... what does that even mean. Have a bunch of people come together and agreed that some game out there is the absolute pinnacle of rpg-s and are now comparing every game against that?



Personally I think that Deus Ex was, is and probably will be one of the best, if not the best Rpg/shooters ever made. And I'm not the only one.

And Mass Effect is a lot more complicated then Deus Ex in a lot of ways.



So here we have a game that is actually more complicated then one of the few games we can actually compare it against and people are still unhappy because there's too much shooting?



Please... the majority of the human race baffles me.

[todahouse21]

[quote]phimseto wrote...

LOL...a thread that proves elitism and snark cut both ways.

Excellent.[/quot

Why thank you.