75 réponses à ce sujet

[rekn2]

Ieldra2 wrote...

RandomGuy96 wrote...
It's kind of hard narrowing to down to a top five, but I did so anyway. There are a lot of moments throughout the trilogy that just bugged the crap outta me.

I, too, had a hard time narrowing it down to four.

1) "You mean Asari can mate with their own race?" head desk.

S/he.... s/he actually says this?

It's an option. Which is why it didn't make it into my the "worst" list. Shepard can be a ****** here, but they don't have to. Still, this is a egregiously stupid line to even write in the first place.

same here. i was getting "ranty" towards the end so i stopped, lol.

[AlanC9]

ME1 has a lot of stupid questions. " What's a Prothean" was my favorite. You might even need to ask that one for an achievement.

[Fixers0]

Best: ME1 Renegade ending with overthrowing the council.
Worst: ME3: the entire prologue mission.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Linkenski wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

RandomGuy96 wrote...
It's kind of hard narrowing to down to a top five, but I did so anyway. There are a lot of moments throughout the trilogy that just bugged the crap outta me.

I, too, had a hard time narrowing it down to four.

1) "You mean Asari can mate with their own race?" head desk.

S/he.... s/he actually says this?

It's an option. Which is why it didn't make it into my the "worst" list. Shepard can be a ****** here, but they don't have to. Still, this is a egregiously stupid line to even write in the first place.

Also in Bring Down The Sky DLC he can ask "Can't they just send the asteroid into the ocean?"

Oh yeah, good plan Shepard. Make tidal waves that destroy whole cities.

Mass Effect 1 had some of the most idiotic lines I've ever seen. The game was groanfully painful at times. It led me to believe the intelligence qualifications for serving in the capacity in the galaxy was 90 or less. Who wrote that thing? Oh, yeah. <_<

[TheMyron]

Bear in mind, ME1 was trying to "educate" the player.

[Fixers0]

Linkenski wrote...
Also in Bring Down The Sky DLC he can ask "Can't they just send the asteroid into the ocean?"

Oh yeah, good plan Shepard. Make tidal waves that destroy whole cities.

The actual line  said was "any chance it will land in the ocean?"

Please don't make things up which really aren't there.

Shepard never proposed the idea of manoevering X57 into the ocean.

[RandomGuy96]

TheMyron wrote...

Bear in mind, ME1 was trying to "educate" the player.

And it just made Shepard look dumb as a bag of hammers. Another line I think should be listed here, notable because it's unavoidable:

Wrex: Well there was that one time the turians almost wiped out our entire race. That was fun.

Shepard: You know, they almost tried the same with us.

Wrex: It's not the same!

Shepard: It seems pretty much the same to me.

Another horrible moment for roleplaying: Shepard's first conversation with Tali. S/he has to tell her that the geth were totally in the right (literally: many of the dialogue options are just there for show, they say the same thing), then s/he has to say that "it's hard to feel sorry for you, your ancesors tried to wipe out another species". Not only does this not make any sense (she deserves a horrible life because someone 300 years ago of the same species did something that was, in your eyes, bad?) but it's bizzarely out of character with just about everything else Shepard can say in every other game about the geth. 

Modifié par RandomGuy96, 30 novembre 2013 - 09:58 .

[LinksOcarina]

TheMyron wrote...

Bear in mind, ME1 was trying to "educate" the player.

This is a situation of ludonarrative dissonance. It's a game conceit to explain bits to the players like that, because we know nothing of the world itself. In context of the story, it makes little sense or is out of place in what the narrative is telling us.

This is somthing that is becoming more and more prevelant as the games become more story-focused. Not just RPGS, but action titles like The Last of Us suffer from it too. Thankfully, BioWare is better than most in this regard, but its still pretty visible sometimes in anything because of the necessity for gameplay, and even more so with a game like Mass Effect where knowledge is part of the gameplay.

RandomGuy96 wrote...

And it just made Shepard look dumb as a bag of hammers. Another line I think should be listed here, notable because it's unavoidable:

Wrex: Well there was that one time the turians almost wiped out our entire race. That was fun.

Shepard: You know, they almost tried the same with us.

Wrex: It's not the same!

Shepard: It seems pretty much the same to me.

Another horrible moment for roleplaying: Shepard's first conversation with Tali. S/he has to tell her that the geth were totally in the right (literally: many of the dialogue options are just there for show, they say the same thing), then s/he has to say that "it's hard to feel sorry for you, your ancesors tried to wipe out another species". Not only does this not make any sense (she deserves a horrible life because someone 300 years ago of the same species did something that was, in your eyes, bad?) but it's bizzarely out of character with just about everything else Shepard can say in every other game about the geth. 

I would argue that the conversation with Wrex is not as dumb as you make it, since it is just a false comparison, which is a fair interpretation of events without understanding the differences. As for Tali, other than how prophetic the conversation can be, at that point in the story its a bit unusual to have and very out of place. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 30 novembre 2013 - 10:11 .

[Nightwriter]

Now this isn't fair, I can't think of everything and I'm almost sure I'll finish this post feeling like I missed something.

Worst scenes... probably any scene where Shepard is forced to be a Featureless Protagonist (i.e., in an effort to emphasize that the player *is* the Player Character, the game avoids applying compelling or flavorful characterization to the PC). Basically, I'm talking about scenes where Shepard acts like a boring square with an unremarkable mind, or a simple action hero character in an otherwise deep and evocative fiction universe. Designated Protagonist Syndrome and Standardized Leader may also be worth a mention. I could toss out specific scenes but there are so many that it's just easier to identify them this way. I figure people will probably know the sorts of scenes I mean anyway.

Another biggie would be Shepard's too-quick acceptance of Cerberus as his/her new patron in ME2. That was such a big player/character disconnect that it threw off my ability to immerse myself in the entire ME2 storyline. I can't think of a portrayal glitch that caused as much damage.

Best scenes... well, Shepard seems to turn into a mixture of Han Solo and Mal Reynolds during the length of LotSB and while others kept squawking about how this was OOC for their Shepards I. Loved. Every. Minute. Of it.

Any scenes where Shepard says something witty, knowledgeable, or just in general something that breaks the classic action hero mold, usually tickle me to death. I love scenes where Shepard is weary or frustrated. When Joker said "your suit readings say you're under more stress than in the Blitz!" it was a "whoa" moment for me. Dat custom history characterization.

[Lyrandori]

I have too many "best scenes" to list especially considering I have three Shepards.

But I do have one aspect of the series that happens to be the "worst" for all my Shepards, and it is in Mass Effect 1 (which is my favorite game of the trilogy, overall). What I hated in Mass Effect 1 was the whole "let's educate the player whose playing Shepard about what is what and why this and that work the way it works". The thing is as a player I role-play a character without thinking (even if I know, but that's part of RPlaying) that I play my character. I don't need Shepard him/herself actually asking questions out loud to a V.I. or another character concerning other species and their culture.

That's because I expect that my Shepard wasn't born at 29 years-old and received said "education" concerning alien species and their culture in school during her infancy and adolescence, and beyond, until ME1's actual events and timeline starts with the game as we know it. The way BioWare "educated" us about the Mass Effect's universe, technical shenanigans, alien species and their culture was done in a way that portrays my Shepard as a complete ignorant idiot who never went to school and never once heard in his/her entire life about the fact that the Asari can reproduce amongst themselves (that's just one example out of dozens) up until the very moment at around 29 years-old when he/she happens to ask the question to Liara.

MY Shepard received actual education, thanks. When you introduce a players base to a completely new IP / Universe and want to give us details to us, the players, then do it with a Codex, PERIOD, stop it there, it's enough. I, the player, can stop role-playing my Shepard, open the menu and go in the Codex and read something and go "ooooh, so that's how it works" or "oooh, that explains why Salarians speak this fast". I wouldn't want my Shepard asking out loud to Mordin something along the lines of "why do you speak fast like this? can you breath between sentences?", that's because my Shepard most likely already met Salarians in her/his life before the events of the trilogy started and even if that wasn't the case she'd have been educated at school and she'd have read in a book or something about Salarians having accelerated metabolism and low life spans, and so on.

That part of ME1, that aspect of "we developers want you the player to learn about the game's universe via Shepard asking questions around" education was completely immersion-breaking for me. With this said, however, ME1 remains my overall favorite game of the trilogy (and I find ME2 to be light-years better than ME3 even though I find ME2 quite inferior to ME1, except the soundtrack which is phenomenal... that is, in my opinion).

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If they wanted to give an immersive role playing experience the terminal in your quarters in ME1, and in fact in all of the games could have actually worked and provided an Extranet connection to of all things.... the codex where you could have found out things like "do the tentacles on asari heads move?" It could have shown a screen with a picture of an asari and given history, and biology. The same with the Krogan. etc. Or you could just play the game and interact with the characters like people. Did they have to be walking encyclopedias? They could have been compelling characters instead. ME1 is painful. If it wasn't for the fact that you default to renegade assh*** Shepard if you don't play it for ME2 I'd just skip it.

[KaiserShep]

Nightwriter wrote...

Best scenes... well, Shepard seems to turn into a mixture of Han Solo and Mal Reynolds during the length of LotSB and while others kept squawking about how this was OOC for their Shepards I. Loved. Every. Minute. Of it.

Same. I was never aware of any problems people had with LotSB until I came to this forum. It's easily the most entertaining portrayal of Shepard to me. 

Any scenes where Shepard says something witty, knowledgeable, or just in general something that breaks the classic action hero mold, usually tickle me to death. I love scenes where Shepard is weary or frustrated. When Joker said "your suit readings say you're under more stress than in the Blitz!" it was a "whoa" moment for me. Dat custom history characterization.

One of my favorite examples is during the Noveria: Espionage quest when speaking to Rafael Vargas. Using all of the charm dialogue here makes Shepard look pretty sharp. I agree about the Joker comment. I have one for Akuze and one for Elysium and it was a pretty great touch seeing this comment work around this background. 

[David7204]

It clearly does work for the vast majority of fans.

[David7204]

Id say you'd be pretty foolish for not caring. What other people want dictates the kind of fiction and video games available to you.

[David7204]

Casey Hudson is not Howard Roark.

[David7204]

...

We're all multitaskers.

[FlyingSquirrel]

osbornep wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

"You're not alive, not really, you're just a machine. And machines can be broken."

I just mute the game at that point and pretend Shepard never said it.

You can also hit the spacebar right away - Shepard will only get out "You're not" and Sovereign then appears to interrupt. I do this with a few other scenes that make Shepard look dumb or excessively aggressive. For example, spacebarring through hacking the doors on Purgatory can make it look like the riot starts without Shepard doing anything.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Jack's recruitment mission was always one of the more uncomfortable (and not in a good way) moments in the trilogy, especially if you're playing mostly Paragon.

Even for Renegades, enabling that much chaos on a station full of mercs and criminals is a dubious decision - one of them e-mails later and says he's going to try to kill you, and certainly the survivors have plenty of potential to wreak havoc in general. For Paragons, it might kinda sorta make sense that Shepard sees the prison as little better than a slave-trading outfit and doesn't think *anybody* deserves to be kept there, but simply opening all the doors at once is a remarkably stupid way to handle it, and it's not like the Normandy crew do much to get anyone besides Jack off the station.

I also use the spacebar to skip the "quarian with a stomach-ache" line in the otherwise amusing Paragon persuasion option for the sick krogan in Mordin's loyalty mission.

[FlyingSquirrel]

TheMyron wrote...

Bear in mind, ME1 was trying to "educate" the player.

This is something of a problem with games in general, really. I've mentioned this before with regards to Fallout: New Vegas - the Courier's questions about the various factions often seem kind of dumb for someone who has presumably been working in the area for a while.

Personally, I don't think players need to be spoon-fed all the details. They could have just had Anderson and Nihlus talk about the implications of a new prothean artifact being discovered, and between that and the text intro at the beginning, I think most of us would be able to figure out that the protheans are a lost civilization with advanced technology and could read the Codex for more detail if we were interested.

[trenq]

StreetMagic wrote...

I didn't like LotSB Shepard, just for being chummy. It's not against LotSB specifically though. I just dislike chumminess in general. I don't think it's fair to expect everyone to like the same things, so I'm not knocking anyone else's preferences.

It's funny though.. I think Patrick Weekes is responsible for a lot of the tone there. And I like him. I just seem to like Weekes more when he's touching on more tragic or serious subjects (some of Mordin, Jack). Not so much the LotSB/Kasumi variety. And also feel LotSB is impossible to enjoy if you're not romancing Liara. They try to make it accessible to anyone, but it doesn't work.

That's why i only played it once.

Modifié par trenq, 01 décembre 2013 - 09:10 .

[TheMyron]

Shepard: Women sometimes have good ideas Wrex, you should listen.