88 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

 i was editing revising the mass effect wiki page recently and was suprised to see retribution placed before arrival.
for some of you who never read retribution that may sound fine and logical correct.
but for those of you who did. you know that retribution could never have happened within the events of mass effect 2 and that arrival did take place inside mass effect 2 timeline. anywhere after 27.1.2186.(or after horizon mission.)  i was more suprised to find out that walters tried to make it canon in vega comic(which i never read) that shepard turned himself/herself over three days after arrival.

Its actions like this which reduces mass effect 3 legitimacy even further.

Modifié par erezike, 29 novembre 2013 - 10:58 .

[Clayless]

Wait what's the problem here? The wiki had placed Retribution before Arrival?

[Erez Kristal]

Robosexual wrote...

Wait what's the problem here? The wiki had placed Retribution before Arrival?

Arrival is placed after retribution in the wiki - thats a really minor issue. since wiki is written by players for players and those players can make mistakes. i think everyone who have read retribution will have to agree that retribution cannot occur during mass effect 2 timeline and forcing it there will conflict with me2 events.

The Bigger issue is that walters comics conflicts with the games lore- timelines.  

[Clayless]

erezike wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Wait what's the problem here? The wiki had placed Retribution before Arrival?

Arrival is placed after retribution in the wiki - thats a really minor issue. since wiki is written by players for players and those players can make mistakes. i think everyone who have read retribution will have to agree that retribution cannot occur during mass effect 2 timeline and forcing it there will conflict with me2 events.

The Bigger issue is that walters comics conflicts with the games lore- timelines.  

So Retribution conflicts with the lore and timelines?

How?

[Rotward]

Ech, this sort of thing happens all the time. Artists, authors, etc get the details of their own series wrong. This is especially common when the series is as detailed as the mass effect universe.

[Cainhurst Crow]

IT had cerberus in it so it must be bad.

[Erez Kristal]

Robosexual wrote...

erezike wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Wait what's the problem here? The wiki had placed Retribution before Arrival?

Arrival is placed after retribution in the wiki - thats a really minor issue. since wiki is written by players for players and those players can make mistakes. i think everyone who have read retribution will have to agree that retribution cannot occur during mass effect 2 timeline and forcing it there will conflict with me2 events.

The Bigger issue is that walters comics conflicts with the games lore- timelines.  

So Retribution conflicts with the lore and timelines?

How?

Retribution works perfectly fine if its placed after mass effect 2.
If its is placed inside mass effect 2. there is conflict due to anderson still being councilor/advisor. omega playing business as ussual despite being torn apart by grayson-reaper. (you would think someone would notice)
- there is also the part where anderson say if shepard wasnt on an off grid mission doing god knows what god knows where.(shepard never went off grid for more than a few hours in mass effect 2)
And the most important part is the entire gaintantic turian crusade against cerberus never gets a mention.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Maybe the off the grid mission anderson was talking about is the events of arrival. So like, hours after the end of retribution, arrival takes place.

[Clayless]

erezike wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So Retribution conflicts with the lore and timelines?

How?

Retribution works perfectly fine if its placed after mass effect 2.
If its is placed inside mass effect 2. there is conflict due to anderson still being councilor/advisor. omega playing business as ussual despite being torn apart by grayson-reaper. (you would think someone would notice)
- there is also the part where anderson say if shepard wasnt on an off grid mission doing god knows what god knows where.(shepard never went off grid for more than a few hours in mass effect 2)
And the most important part is the entire gaintantic turian crusade against cerberus never gets a mention.

But it does take place after ME2.

[JamesFaith]

Isn't Arrival playable both during and after core ME2?

EDIT: And Retribution wasnť comic and was written by Karpyshin, so you probably made mistake with name.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 29 novembre 2013 - 11:38 .

[Erez Kristal]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Maybe the off the grid mission anderson was talking about is the events of arrival. So like, hours after the end of retribution, arrival takes place.

 i wouldnt go against it. but basicly during the game you can still visit omega and anderson on the citadel and business will be as usual.

Robosexual wrote...


But it does take place after ME2.

hey, im with you . i think retribution has to take place after me2.. i am just saying walters clearly wasnt thinking that.. he was writing a follow up to a different game.

Modifié par erezike, 29 novembre 2013 - 11:43 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

But what really happened on omega? A bunch of mercs had a shootout with a guy, and he got away. Nothing else big and shattering happened on omega during that fight.

Hell, a super plague and three major merc groups getting slaughtered by garrus both happened on omega, and everything was still business as usual. I have a feeling it'll take a lot more then massive death tolls for people to stop going about their lives on the station.

[Erez Kristal]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But what really happened on omega? A bunch of mercs had a shootout with a guy, and he got away. Nothing else big and shattering happened on omega during that fight.

Hell, a super plague and three major merc groups getting slaughtered by garrus both happened on omega, and everything was still business as usual. I have a feeling it'll take a lot more then massive death tolls for people to stop going about their lives on the station.

it was no regualr shootout.
it was a few hundreds of aria best mercs getting slaughted by an abomination which ran rampant through the omega streets for a few hours. tearing everything in its path. apart. with singularities beyond biotics wildest dreams. it wasnt just a gang war. it was one monster display. embarrasing omega pirate queen.

alleyd wrote...

Retribution is a Drew Karpashyan Novel, not a Walters comic.

That being said I agree Erezike that there is a sense of disconnect in the timeline. Possibly the reason is actually down to the release dates for the media? The novel was released on July 27th 2010, according to the Drew Karpashyan website. Arrival was released later on March 29th 2011 IIRC

The timeline for Mass Effect is hard to tie down because of the open ended design and dlc strategies.

cerberus news help a bit. we know that arrival had to take place after 27.1.2186 which is the date of the last report of human-batarians conflict over the bahak system. this means the events of mass effect 2 could take anywhere between the beginning of 2185 to mid 2186. depending on how much time the players estimated it took to complete the entire missions of mass effect 2. 
I gave my playthrough an average of 3-4 days per mission.  thats five months. starting at the end of 2185 and ending at mid 2186.

Modifié par erezike, 29 novembre 2013 - 11:49 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

And this is different then all the fail arcangel assassination attempts...how exactly?

And I'm talking about what the average person of omega would see it. You know, the thousands to millions living on the station who weren't at the fight. To them, it was aria getting beaten by one guy, but at the end of the day, she's still alive, her men will be easily replaced, and life will go on with graysons display being "hey, remember that one guy who tore through here a while ago? Man, wasn't that crazy?" and nothing else.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was some earth shattering event in omegas history.

[Reorte]

erezike wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But what really happened on omega? A bunch of mercs had a shootout with a guy, and he got away. Nothing else big and shattering happened on omega during that fight.

Hell, a super plague and three major merc groups getting slaughtered by garrus both happened on omega, and everything was still business as usual. I have a feeling it'll take a lot more then massive death tolls for people to stop going about their lives on the station.

it was no regualr shootout.
it was a few hundreds of aria best mercs getting slaughted by an abomination which ran rampant through the omega streets for a few hours. tearing everything in its path. apart. with singularities beyond biotics wildest dreams. it wasnt just a gang war. it was one monster display. embarrasing omega pirate queen.

A few hours though, even a few hours of death and destruction isn't going to change Omega much. Whilst you might expect some mention of it in an ideal world that's the sort of detail that I'm happy to overlook since juggling it in with being able to do stuff in any old order in ME (up to a point) makes it impossible to get everything consistent with fixed media like books and comics - i.e. there's a practical limit beyond which even I don't get upset at things not being treated 100% realistically.

[Erez Kristal]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And this is different then all the fail arcangel assassination attempts...how exactly?

And I'm talking about what the average person of omega would see it. You know, the thousands to millions living on the station who weren't at the fight. To them, it was aria getting beaten by one guy, but at the end of the day, she's still alive, her men will be easily replaced, and life will go on with graysons display being "hey, remember that one guy who tore through here a while ago? Man, wasn't that crazy?" and nothing else.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was some earth shattering event in omegas history.

people die all the time in the normal world, yet when someone die from a new brutal and horrifying way. it gets to the front page news.
aria being torn a new one. was big news. and the fact that it was being done by one biotic monster. make it even bigger news. omega is a small place. 7.8 million.  gang wars are common in omega. but they dont get a lot of monster shows. 

and the plauge did get a mention in the news and on omega. even archangel got a mention.

Reorte wrote...

A few hours though, even a few hours of death and destruction isn't going to change Omega much. Whilst you might expect some mention of it in an ideal world that's the sort of detail that I'm happy to overlook since juggling it in with being able to do stuff in any old order in ME (up to a point) makes it impossible to get everything consistent with fixed media like books and comics - i.e. there's a practical limit beyond which even I don't get upset at things not being treated 100% realistically.

while on a normal case i would agree with you.
having the incident on omega, cerberus downfall and anderson inaccuracies. it all sums up to beyond the suspension of belief. the most right thing to do and i am sure that is also how drew imagined it when he wrote retribution is to place retribution events after the events of mass effect 2 and after arrival.

Modifié par erezike, 30 novembre 2013 - 12:00 .

[JamesFaith]

erezike wrote...

it was a few hundreds of aria best mercs getting slaughted by an abomination which ran rampant through the omega streets for a few hours. tearing everything in its path. apart. with singularities beyond biotics wildest dreams. it wasnt just a gang war. it was one monster display. embarrasing omega pirate queen.

Actually, only numbers used in Retribution were 20 people in warehouse and 4 Asari later. When there were a lot of causalities, hundreds looks quite exageratted.

Also there wasnť mentioned any time, so even these hours are just your guess.

And he used only one singularity, then he was just shooting.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 30 novembre 2013 - 12:07 .

[Erez Kristal]

JamesFaith wrote...

Actually, only numbers used in Retribution was 20 people in warehouse and 4 Asari later. When there were a lot of causalities, hundreds looks quit exageratted.

Also there wasnť mentioned any time, so even these hours are just your guess.

And he used only one singularity, then he was just shooting.

i dont have the book near me right now so i cant quote(will try to do it later)
But it is mentioned in the book during paul grayson fight that he combined hit and run tactics against aria forces. holding one gun at each hand and sending the occasional deadly singularities which tore through ariah biotics.

paul say he lost count of how many he killed but estimated their numbers by the hundreds. this is in additonal to the people he killed at the warehouse.

Modifié par erezike, 30 novembre 2013 - 12:07 .

[JamesFaith]

erezike wrote...

But it is mentioned in the book during paul grayson fight that he combined hit and run tactics against aria forces. holding one gun at each hand and sending the occasional deadly singularities which tore through ariah biotics.

paul say he lost count of how many he killed but estimated their numbers by the hundreds. this is in additonal to the people he killed at the warehouse.

I have book in front of me and no, there is said that he stopped using biotic and hand-to-hand fight at the moment, when he killed group of mercs after killing asari with singularity.

The rifles allowed the Reapers to switch tactics. Instead of having to overwhelm enemies with biotics or melee combat, they were able to fight a running battle through the Omega streets

Modifié par JamesFaith, 30 novembre 2013 - 12:13 .

[JasonShepard]

erezike wrote...

- there is also the part where anderson say if shepard wasnt on an off grid mission doing god knows what god knows where.(shepard never went off grid for more than a few hours in mass effect 2)

I know this is only a minor thing, but I disagree. Shepard was off the grid for most of ME2 - he only ever checked in when you visited the Citadel, and unless you did that every other mission, then "Away, working with a terrorist organisation" is legitimately off the grid.

Anyway, let's get into timeline stuff:

Retribution has to take place after the Suicide Mission. TIM directly references getting tech from the Collector Base (although it's ambiguous over whether or not the base was blown up). Judging by Anderson not referencing Shepard having been arrested, but instead simply being off the grid, this is before Shepard has been taken in by the Alliance.

Therefore Retribution takes place during the ME2 endgame. (Which I consider to be all of the time between the Suicide Mission and Shepard being grounded by the Alliance.) During the ME2 endgame, stuff on the Citadel and Omega are unchanging compared to how they were just before the Suicide Mission.
ME2's endgame doesn't really have plot content - it's just there for you to finish up any remaining missions. So it wouldn't recognise stuff like Grayson tearing through Omega, or Cerberus being attacked. Those things simply aren't in game - presumably because Retribution was written after ME2 was released.

Arrival can take place anytime between Horizon and ME2's endgame. It's entirely up to the player. For the purposes of the Vega-Omega comic, however, Arrival takes place 3 days before Shepard is grounded. This will be non-canon for anyone that didn't do Arrival as the very last thing in ME2. (Since the comic is only a few pages long, I think you're being picky if that bothers you. Dragon Age has done entire books that will be non-canon for some players.)

Which just leaves Anderson's comment within Retribution that Shepard is off-the-grid. As I've said, Retribution is post-Suicide-Mission, and one of TIM's scenes implies Shepard is no longer with Cerberus, so where is Shepard? What is this off-the-grid mission?

Does it matter?

Depending on your playthrough, it could be anything from LotSB, Overlord, spare Loyalty Missions, Arrival, or just getting drunk on Illium. Presumably it was left ambiguous because they hadn't yet decided how they were going to join ME2 to ME3. Karpyshyn needed a non-specific reason for Shepard to be unavailable. Off-the-grid just means "Whatever you had Shepard doing during the ME2 endgame."

[Erez Kristal]

JamesFaith wrote...

erezike wrote...

But it is mentioned in the book during paul grayson fight that he combined hit and run tactics against aria forces. holding one gun at each hand and sending the occasional deadly singularities which tore through ariah biotics.

paul say he lost count of how many he killed but estimated their numbers by the hundreds. this is in additonal to the people he killed at the warehouse.

I have book in front of me and no, there is said that he stopped using biotic and hand-to-hand fight at the moment, when he killed group of mercs after killing asari with singularity.

The asari group was could have been the last group to be killed by biotics. but grayson managed to kill enough by then to create a lasting impression. such thing would make it to the station news. the reason grayson had to kill hundreds and take his time was because ariah was ordering her people to block his path to the spaceports.
he had to fight his way around them.

[JamesFaith]

erezike wrote...

The asari group was could have been the last group to be killed by biotics. but grayson managed to kill enough by then to create a lasting impression. such thing would make it to the station news. the reason grayson had to kill hundreds and take his time was because ariah was ordering her people to block his path to the spaceports.
he had to fight his way around them.

You are again mistaken. It was first group.

The first group to get in his way had been easily dispatched with a biotic singularity. 

And he didn't only fought through merc, there is also written that Reapers used Grayson's memories to find shortest alternative side routes. And later is also mentioned that spaceport he used had only small security force.

None of the ports Aria controlled were heavily guarded—most people knew better than to steal a ship from Omega’s Pirate Queen. This one was no different; only a handful of defenders were there to try to stop him.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 30 novembre 2013 - 12:24 .