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[cap and gown]

What does "shield duration 4 seconds" mean for the Charge power? I looked on the wiki but didn't find anything.

[RedCaesar97]

I do not recall there being a shield duration for charge in either ME2 or ME3. It just added shields.
But I am tired and sick and not thinking well and not bothering to do my research to confirm.

If there is a shield duration 4 seconds, then I think it adds +x% shields over your maximum for 4 seconds. For example:
- Base shields = 200
- Maximum shields = 400
- Charge adds +25% (base) shields for 4 seconds, or +50 shields for 4 seconds.

So in the above example, when you Charge, will gain +50 shields. So if you are at 350 shields or lower, you will gain +50 shields and the duration is ignored. If you are from 351 to 400 shields, then any shields you gain from charge (from +1 to +50 in this example, or 401 to 450 shields) will last for 4 seconds as long as your shields remain above your maximum of 400 shields.

To clarify the example further say you are at your maximum shields (400) and Charge gives you +50 shields for 450 maximum. So for 4 seconds, you can have up to 450 shields (50 over your maximum). If your shields dip below your maximum, say to 350, you do not lose that extra 50 after 4 seconds'; that is to say, after 4 seconds, your shields will remain at 350 and not drop to 300 suddenly.

At least I am pretty sure that is what it does.

You can gain more shields with more ranks in your passive, Damage Protection upgrades, and armor. That is why at level 30 with a lot of upgrades and possibly +Shields armor, Heavy Charge (+100% shields) will not give you a full blue bar if you had no shields before charging.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 30 novembre 2013 - 01:38 .

[RedCaesar97]

Okay, after a good night's rest, I fired up an ME2 Vanguard save and checked it out. I was mostly right.

The description for Charge says that it adds +x% of maximum shields for 4.00 seconds. What actually happens is that when you charge, it completely replenishes your barrier to maximum, then adds the additional +x% of maximum on top of that. It is that extra +x% that will remain for 4 seconds, after which it will drop back down to your maximum; if you are below your maximum, it will not take that away as far as I know. (I did not have enough time to really test it out).

I am not entirely sure what is considered "maximum shields" when calculating the +x%, although I think it is based off of your base shields. I had a Vanguard with 407 shields, and after a charge it was listed at 657 until after 4 seconds when it dropped back down to 407.

[cap and gown]

Thanks for the info. It would seem that the Heavy Charge evolution then gives you 250 extra shields. Considering how fast my shields evaporate, I am not sure this is all that wonderful. Perhaps Barrier would be a good bonus power for a Vanguard?

[Wissenschaft]

cap and gown wrote...

Thanks for the info. It would seem that the Heavy Charge evolution then gives you 250 extra shields. Considering how fast my shields evaporate, I am not sure this is all that wonderful. Perhaps Barrier would be a good bonus power for a Vanguard?

 

Barrier has too long a cooldown. Instead, the extra sheilds that heavy charge gives you should buy you enough time to get into cover. Whenever you pick a target for charge make sure you've spoted what cover your going to duck into. Then just charge again. 

If theres enough cover, then you can just stand behind walls that block LOS without taking cover. It allows you to quickly blast any enemy that trys to rush you which can happen. With charge's low cooldown you should aim to charge all over the battlefield picking off an enemy or two each charge. In large open areas your better off using your charge to reach the end of the area quickly which will by pass spawn points, cutting short otherwise long battles. In the worst case, you can just use Shockwave to pop enemies out of cover and kill them quickly. The Geth Plasma Shotgun can two shot most mooks from assault rifle range.

Barrier is much more for an Adapt who is otherwise quite fragile and needs the extra protection if he wants to run and gun. Use a shotgun or assault rifle and flank enemies to end battles faster. Use AoE abilites to strip them of their defenses then a Biotic ability + warp ammo = mass death.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 30 novembre 2013 - 10:15 .

[RedCaesar97]

Wissenschaft wrote...

cap and gown wrote...

Thanks for the info. It would seem that the Heavy Charge evolution then gives you 250 extra shields. Considering how fast my shields evaporate, I am not sure this is all that wonderful. Perhaps Barrier would be a good bonus power for a Vanguard?

 

Barrier has too long a cooldown. Instead, the extra sheilds that heavy charge gives you should buy you enough time to get into cover. Whenever you pick a target for charge make sure you've spoted what cover your going to duck into. Then just charge again. 

I pretty much agree. Picking targets near cover is a good start for beginner Vanguards. Here is a good beginner's guide to charging by ThatAverageGatsby. 


Wissenschaft explained it in his previous post:

Wissenschaft wrote...

If theres enough cover, then you can just stand behind walls that block LOS without taking cover. It allows you to quickly blast any enemy that trys to rush you which can happen. With charge's low cooldown you should aim to charge all over the battlefield picking off an enemy or two each charge. In large open areas your better off using your charge to reach the end of the area quickly which will by pass spawn points, cutting short otherwise long battles. In the worst case, you can just use Shockwave to pop enemies out of cover and kill them quickly. The Geth Plasma Shotgun can two shot most mooks from assault rifle range.

But then we get to this paragraph:

Wissenschaft wrote...

Barrier is much more for an Adapt who is otherwise quite fragile and needs the extra protection if he wants to run and gun. Use a shotgun or assault rifle and flank enemies to end battles faster. Use AoE abilites to strip them of their defenses then a Biotic ability + warp ammo = mass death.

Barrier is not a very good power on Insanity. It has a base 12s cooldown, and Adept can only get it down to about 7.2s with passive and upgrades. Adepts are better with Stasis (1 point) or Warp Ammo which works well with Pull and Singularity.



Now back to charge:

Heavy Charge also adds time dilation which is good. And once you get both bthe Hard Shields and Redundant Field Generator upgrades (unlocked with 3 and 2 Damage Protection upgrades), your shields are harder to take down. 

Also keep in mind that when your shields are gone, you have about 1 second immunity before you start taking health damage. Use that to find cover or to kill/shoot another enemy.


Now if you are looking for a bonus power for a Vanguard, Stasis or Slam are 1-point wonders. Slam is good if you do not want to invest in Shockwave to get Pull.

Traditionally, most ME2 Vanguards are built like this:
1) Evolve Charge to Heavy Charge.
2) Evolve Passive. Champion or Destroyer does not matter a whole lot. Depends if you want more cooldown (Champion) or weapon damage (Destroyer).
3) Evolve Incendiary Ammo to Inferno Ammo.
4) Spec whatever else you want. If you are charge-only Vanguard, then Squad Cryo Ammo is best. If you want to sit back and cast a bit, the Pull Field and Improved Shockwave are the way to go.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 30 novembre 2013 - 11:23 .

[Wissenschaft]

Ah well, your right, barrier is not that great. I'd rather take Warp Ammo. Just saying some people do use Barrier. If your staying in cover and just popping out of cover to use powers then Barrier works just fine. Adapt seems really safe to play when you can curve your powers over cover. Its just slow for my tastes compared to the rush that playing a vanguard gives. Barrier does allow you to reposition yourself which can allow you to pick enemies off from a differnet angle which can speed fights up. Without barrier you'll just be hugging cover all game long which I find a bit boring.

I'm actually liking Reave as a bonus power for vanguards. Allows you to soften enemies when theres no safe place to charge. Not to mention its great for fighting Collectors. It can even be used to help take down shields since it has a fairly low cooldown so you can spam it. I ignore Squad Cryo ammo. I prefer setting off Warp Explosions. lol Basicly, I don't count on my squad doing damage, thats my job. They are just around to strip defenses.

If I can't charge then I try to pull and warp explode. Great for clearing out enemies in cover.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 30 novembre 2013 - 11:43 .

[RedCaesar97]

Okay, I played around with Charge some more an I think I finally understand that 4-second duration thing now. You think after a few years I would know this already.

Anyway, ranks 2-4 of Charge add +x% shields for 4.00 seconds. So this is what Charge does:
1) Adds or increases your current shields by +x% of your base shields
2) Increases your maximum shields by +x% for 4.00 seconds

My Squad screen shows my Vanguard has 407 shields. It shows that number regardless of how many shields I actually have, so that number is my maximum shields.

My Vanguard has Heavy Charge, so +100% of maximum shields for 4.00 seconds. So for 4.00 seconds after a charge, the Squad screen shows my Vanguard has 657 shields.

If I let an enemy strip my shields and then I charge, my blue bar is only partially filled. This is consistent with the +100% being calculated from base shields.


So does that (finally) answer the original question? I hope so.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:57 .

[Yezdigerd]

Might also be relevant that you get the barrier animation while your barrierbonus is active.
The barrier power isn't what you want. It's quite easy to see charge as an attack but it's main virtue is as a defense IMO. The way I usually play his holding the charge until my shield is shot up, this way you milk both the shieldrestore and bonus barrier out of the cd. and while the shield is intact spamming pull or reave. By using charge as a recharge you get more uptime on your shooting.

[Wissenschaft]

Like I said, Barrier is more for the Adapt if they want to run and gun.



This guy has a guide on the forums with videos showing how using underused abilities is still perfectly viable on Insanity. Abilites like Barrier and Shockwave. 

The best part is how he uses Barrier to melee enemies to death. Just fricken halarious.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 01 décembre 2013 - 10:27 .