208 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Vandicus wrote...

I don't see how that could be well written. Assuming the Maker is malevolent, he would either have to be very weak so as to justify why he hadn't succeeded in his nefarious plans(assuming he's a demon he's not even competent enough to cross the veil like other demons), or be such a convoluted plotter as to border on the absurd.

Given the Chantry's history, if the Maker is trying to be malevolent, he's done an awfully poor job of it. Should've just let the Imperium keep on doing their thing.

Assuming? An all powerful being chose to make the world as it is. That´s anything but benevolent. At times I see the Chantry as an abused person who thinks if s/he behaves differently the other will stop.

[Vandicus]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

I don't see how that could be well written. Assuming the Maker is malevolent, he would either have to be very weak so as to justify why he hadn't succeeded in his nefarious plans(assuming he's a demon he's not even competent enough to cross the veil like other demons), or be such a convoluted plotter as to border on the absurd.

Given the Chantry's history, if the Maker is trying to be malevolent, he's done an awfully poor job of it. Should've just let the Imperium keep on doing their thing.

Assuming? An all powerful being chose to make the world as it is. That´s anything but benevolent. At times I see the Chantry as an abused person who thinks if s/he behaves differently the other will stop.

I think the difference here is you're talking about something closer to negligence and I'm talking about something more like active malevolence.

From another perspective, the dev staff is the Maker, and all the suffering in Thedas is their fault. 

I don't actually think the Maker is all powerful. I also don't think he's out to destroy the world/conquer the world/enslave everyone's souls/insert nefarious plot here.
While I can certainly see the Maker being written as apathetic or an ****, I don't see how it could be written well as some sort of elder evil seeking to destroy/eat/recreate the world(actively malevolent).

[rapscallioness]

dreamgazer wrote...

I hope the "Maker" ends up being Alanis Morissette.

Hahaha!

Idk if I'd want the Maker to end up being a demon....but....I for one want to know. Imo, it's a mystery! And mysteries beg to be solved, or at least called into question/investigated.

I'm not one for protracted ambiguity in my stories. Sooner, or later I like the writers to imagine somethinng  clever and interesting for big mysteries.

But apparently I'm in the extreme minority here. Lol! damn.

[rapscallioness]

oh, but as far as the Dogma movie...man I forgot all about that. But now I remember Alanis "God" trying to do handstands off in the corner and failing miserably at it. Tumbling over all over the place....and having fun trying to do it.

huh.

[Plaintiff]

Nohvarr wrote...

No, I'd much rather have everyone's beliefs challenged. Like those that don't believe in the Maker actually find evidence of a benevolent creator/force that actually is working in the world in unexpected and positive ways. While those that do believe find evidence to the contrary suggesting that there is no Maker.

I have to ask: what would evidence of the Maker's existence even look like?

[TheButterflyEffect]

Maker is an evil being that must be destroyed. Then the Taint and all Spawn will be destroyed as well, if he is the source of it.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:30 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's not how the story goes. The source of the taint is the Black City's corruption, which itself was allegedly corrupted by the Magisters' sins. Even if that were somehow destroyed though, that doesn't mean the darkspawn would be along with it

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:42 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

But I thought it said it was the Maker's curse? hmm.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That might be how some people in Thedas interpret it, but I don't think that's actually what Chantry theology says.

The first line of the game is "The Chantry teaches us that it is the hubris of men that brought the darkspawn into our world."

The Canticle of Threnodies quoted at the very begining says "You have brought sin to Heaven and doom upon all the world."

Narrator Duncan goes on to say "They returned as monsters, twisted and cursed by their own corruption."

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:45 .

[rapscallioness]

You knooow, what is interesting to me is how it wasn't until the human tribes, or tribe actually, arrived that these Old Gods started whispering.

It was to the humans that they started whispering, and teaching. The...uh..Neromenians, I believe. The humans that eventually set up the Tevinter empire that worshipped these old gods.

So, really it's not just the magisters that Thedas could blame, but the humans in general. But why? Why would these old gods choose the humans to whisper to and lead on this merry chase?

[Nohvarr]

rapscallioness wrote...
So, really it's not just the magisters that Thedas could blame, but the humans in general. But why? Why would these old gods choose the humans to whisper to and lead on this merry chase?

Because ambitious humans are easier to trick into doing one's bidding.

[rapscallioness]

Nohvarr wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...
So, really it's not just the magisters that Thedas could blame, but the humans in general. But why? Why would these old gods choose the humans to whisper to and lead on this merry chase?

Because ambitious humans are easier to trick into doing one's bidding.

lol! I know right?

Ack.

edit: although without knowing any history of the human tribes and how they got there; why they came there--some it is said were fleeing the "Shadow Goddess", but I can't remember offhand what time period that was; what if anything they worshipped before they came to Thedas.....I just wonder if there was some connection to their past there.

Mmm, I don;t think we'll ever be privy to that much info.

Modifié par rapscallioness, 01 décembre 2013 - 01:13 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It was the ancient Alamarri who were supposedly fleeing a shadow goddess. It was in ancient times, before the birth of the Imperium. That far back, we don't know exactly the migration pattern of all ancient human tribes, only that the Neromenians were the first to appear in historical records.

[rapscallioness]

Ah, thank you Jedi.

Hmm, so before the birth of the Imperium. Interesting. Sometimes I feel like there is some Gods drama going on in the background that we don't know about. Like good old warring gods in heaven. Like how the Elven legends speak of.

Maybe this Maker is on our side? Idk. Or maybe the Maker is just another name for an entity more interested in maintaining power over a population, than what name it is called. The concept of the Tevinter Old Gods was no longer working. The ppl had already lost faith in them after the Blight. They did not help, at all. So, either they did not want to help, or they were powerless to help.

Either way is not very persuasive argument for continued worship of them.

Well, at any rate, I would still like to know more about this Maker and its encounter with Andraste.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

No, I'd much rather have everyone's beliefs challenged. Like those that don't believe in the Maker actually find evidence of a benevolent creator/force that actually is working in the world in unexpected and positive ways. While those that do believe find evidence to the contrary suggesting that there is no Maker.

I have to ask: what would evidence of the Maker's existence even look like?

It's when aizen drops his illusions in order to monolouge about how easy it was to manipulate you.

[Angrywolves]

Of course the Maker won't be a demon. sheesh. He's probably not that concerned about his children. Wonder if Andraste can be persuasive ?

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

No, I'd much rather have everyone's beliefs challenged. Like those that don't believe in the Maker actually find evidence of a benevolent creator/force that actually is working in the world in unexpected and positive ways. While those that do believe find evidence to the contrary suggesting that there is no Maker.

I have to ask: what would evidence of the Maker's existence even look like?

It's when aizen drops his illusions in order to monolouge about how easy it was to manipulate you.

Thanks, you've been unhelpful as always.

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

A God that simply abandons all of its creations already IS evil.

Lol.

Nothing more to say. Just lol.

At the very least, a parent who abandons their children is grossly negligent and should be punished. Certainly they don't deserve to be respected.

[Karach_Blade]

Should the Maker prove malevolent, there is but one outcome: "Then the Inquisition declared exterminatus on the Maker and won. The End."

[Angrywolves]

Some people would be accused of heresy for saying the Maker abandoned Thedas.

[Plaintiff]

Angrywolves wrote...

Some people would be accused of heresy for saying the Maker abandoned Thedas.

Why? That's what the Chantry preaches. The Chant of Light explicitly states that the Maker 'turned his back' on his creation. He's gone, and he's not coming back until the Chantry forcibly converts and/or slaughters all the non-believers in the world.

[Angrywolves]

why anything . In our world people get killed for religious reasons at the drop of a hat. Those silly exalted marches are an example of chantry influence you distain, but it still kills people . shrugs.