208 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Vivec was known as one of the "Living Gods", Dagoth Ur among them.

[Angrywolves]

Demons need to be good because I want them to be ( thread started by one overeager inexperienced player ) EQUALS I want the Maker to be evil ( thread started by another inexperienced overeager player ).
I guess that's the best we can expect to see this weekend. shrugs.

[TK514]

metatheurgist wrote...

TK514 wrote...
Except he didn't punish them.  The Chant of Light is ambiguous at best, but infers that their sin and the blackening of heaven, which they were responsible for, is what tainted and twisted them into Darkspawn.  The Maker didn't need to punish them.

This is a slippery slope...but I'll step forward. If the maker is all powerful then everything that happens under his watch happens with his blessing, if it happened, he wanted it to happen. If he's not all powerful and he couldn't control what happened, then he's just another fade spirit so why bother worshipping him?

TK514 wrote...
And I don't know how much more protection you expect the Maker to have given them.  He put them on an entirely different plane of reality and then, in theory, built a barrier they weren't supposed to be able to breach.  You're blaming the homeowner because the thief got hurt breaking in.  After driving a bulldozer through the front wall.

Something that goes off and poison the intruder sounds like a trap. It's illegal in my country to trap your home against intruders.

If you read my original post, you'll see that I argue that the Maker is not all powerful, nor all knowing.  Much like the Elven deities, in that respect.  He is extremely powerful in the realm of creation, but that's all.  He does not modify, and he does not repair.  He creates, and he observes.

As for your trap, this wasn't something the Maker set up in case someone got in.  This was not some failsafe on the part of the Maker.  The Veil was the one and only line of defense.  What happened to the original Magisters was purely their own fault, and a result of what they brought with them.

The Maker had a silo full of flour.  The Magisters drove through the wall of the silo while carrying an open flame.  It's not the Maker's fault they got caught in an explosion.

Modifié par TK514, 02 décembre 2013 - 05:58 .

[metatheurgist]

^ if he's not all powerful and all knowing then no one should worship him. He's just another fade spirit with delusions of grandeur.

I'm assuming he built Golden City place and set it's rules (of course no one actually knows), but I do know that other places in the fade have been visited without spontaneous plagues erupting into existence. If he didn't build and was claiming credit for something he didn't do then I apologise for my presumption.

[The Baconer]

MasterScribe wrote...

Geez, man. I already know that.

You've missed the point again. Dagoth Ur was MALEVOLENT, Vivec was not.

If this thread is about the Maker possibly being malevolent, then it seems only fitting that we distinguish between malevolent and non-malevolent god figures.

Vivec is a total ****er though.

[Il Divo]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

The Maker, for most people, doesn't exist outside of scripture. Consider that most people would not think it good parenting if my sole interaction with my children came in the form of writing which they are expected to hold to at all times.

I don't understand how this is relevant. You're saying that the fact that it's written scripture means that Thedas is not responsible for following it? I don't really get this point.

Remember, we were talking about whether the Maker is applicable in a parenting role to the rest of Thedas.

A good parent probably wouldn't rely on books of vague doctrine in lieu of actual parenting. Add on top of that, the Maker himself has chosen to stay out of affairs in Thedas. So he's not an active parent and is willing to let his children suffer/perish, in many instances for things which aren't their fault?

[TK514]

metatheurgist wrote...

^ if he's not all powerful and all knowing then no one should worship him. He's just another fade spirit with delusions of grandeur.

For the same reason the elves worship their not omnipotent or omniscient gods.  Or countless cultures throughout history have worshipped not omnipotent or omniscient gods.  He's still a god.