Rasofe wrote...
Fun fact: psychological studies on conformity have shown that people are far more likely to claim they are not worthy of leadership in public than to admit so privately.Rotward wrote...
I prefer synthesis because power corrupts. I wouldn't trust myself with control of the reapers, and I would trust anyone else with it.
Something to think about.
ImaginaryMatter wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
Rasofe wrote...
I don't know why you think it's a copy of Shepard running the Reaper though. If the space magic was enough to turn synthetics and organics into some kind of hybrid, it would be enough to transfer consciousness. Given that ControlShepard doesn't refer to the other Shepard as a completely separe being "The woman I once was", it's reasonably the same mind, not an emulation.
Any Shepard, as far as we've been shown, in a Reaper mind, isn't the same thing as a blood-and-flesh one. It may be the same consciousness, but it has advanced/changed so much that it only *emulates* the original Shepard, instead of just being him/her. The danger of Control is that if the new Intelligence loses that connection to 'being' Shepard, the whole madness could begin again (but each ending has their dangers anyway).
Now, we can disagree on that. There's also some bits in my personal theories that go against what I even just said..
Understandable, the Shepard clone (I know apples to oranges) showed that having 'Shepardness' doesn't automatically make you a good Shepard.
Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2013 - 09:12 .
The Reapers stay alive in Synthesis.SwobyJ wrote...
Rasofe wrote...
Then why would you pick Synthesis if you're attached to Shepard? Shepard dies completely in that ending.SwobyJ wrote...
Obadiah wrote...
I pick Control because it ends the war, doesn't alter everyone, and gives Shep a chance to influence the future of the cycles with the new Shepard AI entity. If the Reapers get out of hand, the cycle will just build another Crucible.
It can be considered the safe/saving choice, as long as you're not overly attached to ME1-ME3 Shepard or concerned about the Reapers going off on everyone.
"Just building another Crucible" required a nearly united galaxy and I wouldn't be surprised if the Reapers held back regarding it, so I'd not just go "Oh they can just make another" lightly.
I'd rather have him human and alive, or dead completely, than being a Reaper consciousness. It really is just that, when it comes to the whole Shepard deal.
If I wanted the Reapers alive, I'd get them all smaller platforms to explore the world in. Maybe they'd calm the hell down on their own. Until then, giant BWAAAMMM machines are not something I'd want Shepard to be attached to.
mass perfection wrote...
Transhumanism is what they'll use to gain complete control over us from motor control to thoughts. It'll also be used to keep track of every single one of us. That's the hidden theme of Synthesis.SwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
The fact that they like those ideas is terrifying. Video games are being used for propaganda. Mass Effect has a ton of it. From feminist propaganda to eugenics propaganda and transhumnism and many, many more. And they all lead to the ultimate, evil, goal of a technocratic totalitarian world government. Who knows where they'll go from there.SwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
Both of does endings have their own unique globalist propaganda. They're used for conditioning and reprogramming us to make THEIR future better. Hardcore evil. There's also propaganda om Destroy, too.
If anything, they're just commentary on globalism/transhumanism.
Sorry, I know a bunch of these game devs and they're just super nerds that like these ideas, and publishers are neutral about it as long as they get their money.
Transhumnism indeed.
I've been to the stuff you're talking about. I probably know more about it than you do. But people, even and especially elites, are not that smart.
BW is just spreading the evil message.There's propably only a few who actually know it. I'll end up doing some deep research into BW and I'll let you know if I find anything relevant.SwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
Transhumanism is what they'll use to gain complete control over us from motor control to thoughts. It'll also be used to keep track of every single one of us. That's the hidden theme of Synthesis.SwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
The fact that they like those ideas is terrifying. Video games are being used for propaganda. Mass Effect has a ton of it. From feminist propaganda to eugenics propaganda and transhumnism and many, many more. And they all lead to the ultimate, evil, goal of a technocratic totalitarian world government. Who knows where they'll go from there.SwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
Both of does endings have their own unique globalist propaganda. They're used for conditioning and reprogramming us to make THEIR future better. Hardcore evil. There's also propaganda om Destroy, too.
If anything, they're just commentary on globalism/transhumanism.
Sorry, I know a bunch of these game devs and they're just super nerds that like these ideas, and publishers are neutral about it as long as they get their money.
Transhumnism indeed.
I've been to the stuff you're talking about. I probably know more about it than you do. But people, even and especially elites, are not that smart.
THEY KNOW the dangers of transhumanism. It's a BITTERsweet ending.
youtu.be/-cMJ2zLL_14
BAD choices.
Bioware ain't out to get you. They're a bunch of fun nerds.
Rasofe wrote...
That... doesn't make any sense. There are bits in your own theories that disagree with your perception?
The thing that distinguishes any individual is their consciousness, not their personality or intelligence, anyway. So it couldn't be an emulation if it's the same character but now in ownership of all Reapers.
I mean, if we start saying that brain-alteration validates that the person is no longer the same, we blow the whole premise of Shepard being the same person between ME1 and ME2 out the window. And then the whole story collapses.
Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2013 - 09:31 .
Rasofe wrote...
The Reapers stay alive in Synthesis.SwobyJ wrote...
Rasofe wrote...
Then why would you pick Synthesis if you're attached to Shepard? Shepard dies completely in that ending.SwobyJ wrote...
Obadiah wrote...
I pick Control because it ends the war, doesn't alter everyone, and gives Shep a chance to influence the future of the cycles with the new Shepard AI entity. If the Reapers get out of hand, the cycle will just build another Crucible.
It can be considered the safe/saving choice, as long as you're not overly attached to ME1-ME3 Shepard or concerned about the Reapers going off on everyone.
"Just building another Crucible" required a nearly united galaxy and I wouldn't be surprised if the Reapers held back regarding it, so I'd not just go "Oh they can just make another" lightly.
I'd rather have him human and alive, or dead completely, than being a Reaper consciousness. It really is just that, when it comes to the whole Shepard deal.
If I wanted the Reapers alive, I'd get them all smaller platforms to explore the world in. Maybe they'd calm the hell down on their own. Until then, giant BWAAAMMM machines are not something I'd want Shepard to be attached to.
Rasofe wrote...
Quick question for everyone on this thread so far:
How many and how different Shepards are you guys basing your arguments on?
Navasha wrote...
Neither of them are very palatable to me as an ending, but if they were the ONLY 2 options.. then I would likely choose Control.
Perhaps the new Shepalyst would maintain some sense of being and build in a failsafe to prevent herself and the Reapers from ever returning to their cycle. At least then the universe would be spared the horrific violation.
Control at least has a small sliver of hope remaining for the future. Power corrupts, but it may at least take time. Hopefully the galaxy has a chance to figure out how to stop it more permanently in that time that is given.
The idea behind synthesis just simply violates everything I believe at the very core of my being. No one should ever have a right to choose how people will be forced to live out their lives.
I'd rather a synthesis that, you know, doesn't seem to change all our opinions suddenly to "Oh, I understand you! Yeah, you killed my child/other, but I know why now." Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2013 - 09:35 .
Rasofe wrote...
Well, Synthesis is factually wrong anyway. It suggests the existance of a mode of existance more preferrable than humanity for human beings. Transcendentalism. That's just ordinary incorrect right there.
Don't know why but Hudson and Walters weren't thinking clearly when they wrote that one. It's not just contradictory to the first principle, it's a thematic pitfall considering that at no point can Shepard express why he or she would believe or believed it to be the correct choice.
There's a reason BW tried to attract more mainstream gamers into ME3. Out of the Mass Effect universe, ME3 takes the prize for having the most propaganda and being mainstream and trendy is an implication of being more dumbed-down than others, therefore more vulnerable to indoctrination (not Reaper indoctrination) and propaganda.SwobyJ wrote...
Rasofe wrote...
Well, Synthesis is factually wrong anyway. It suggests the existance of a mode of existance more preferrable than humanity for human beings. Transcendentalism. That's just ordinary incorrect right there.
Don't know why but Hudson and Walters weren't thinking clearly when they wrote that one. It's not just contradictory to the first principle, it's a thematic pitfall considering that at no point can Shepard express why he or she would believe or believed it to be the correct choice.
Try playing on Action Mode from just the start of ME3, take no Paragon or Renegade interrupts, and manage your EMS to get higher through MP instead of all those SP actions.
That's the Synthesis choice, from the more mechanical standpoint. Walk right there into the beam...
*btw, a lot of players DID do that. Plenty of shooter players only played Action Mode and messed around on MP and walked into the beam. Heck, I've seen many Lets Players do it.
mass perfection wrote...
There's a reason BW tried to attract more mainstream gamers into ME3. Out of the Mass Effect universe, ME3 takes the prize for having the most propaganda and being mainstream and trendy is an implication of being more dumbed-down than others, therefore more vulnerable to indoctrination (not Reaper indoctrination) and propaganda.SwobyJ wrote...
Rasofe wrote...
Well, Synthesis is factually wrong anyway. It suggests the existance of a mode of existance more preferrable than humanity for human beings. Transcendentalism. That's just ordinary incorrect right there.
Don't know why but Hudson and Walters weren't thinking clearly when they wrote that one. It's not just contradictory to the first principle, it's a thematic pitfall considering that at no point can Shepard express why he or she would believe or believed it to be the correct choice.
Try playing on Action Mode from just the start of ME3, take no Paragon or Renegade interrupts, and manage your EMS to get higher through MP instead of all those SP actions.
That's the Synthesis choice, from the more mechanical standpoint. Walk right there into the beam...
*btw, a lot of players DID do that. Plenty of shooter players only played Action Mode and messed around on MP and walked into the beam. Heck, I've seen many Lets Players do it.
Enlighten meSwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
There's a reason BW tried to attract more mainstream gamers into ME3. Out of the Mass Effect universe, ME3 takes the prize for having the most propaganda and being mainstream and trendy is an implication of being more dumbed-down than others, therefore more vulnerable to indoctrination (not Reaper indoctrination) and propaganda.SwobyJ wrote...
Rasofe wrote...
Well, Synthesis is factually wrong anyway. It suggests the existance of a mode of existance more preferrable than humanity for human beings. Transcendentalism. That's just ordinary incorrect right there.
Don't know why but Hudson and Walters weren't thinking clearly when they wrote that one. It's not just contradictory to the first principle, it's a thematic pitfall considering that at no point can Shepard express why he or she would believe or believed it to be the correct choice.
Try playing on Action Mode from just the start of ME3, take no Paragon or Renegade interrupts, and manage your EMS to get higher through MP instead of all those SP actions.
That's the Synthesis choice, from the more mechanical standpoint. Walk right there into the beam...
*btw, a lot of players DID do that. Plenty of shooter players only played Action Mode and messed around on MP and walked into the beam. Heck, I've seen many Lets Players do it.
You really don't know how this 'game development' thing works, do you...
Nightwriter wrote...
I picked Synthesis in my one and only playthrough. I was in a state of loss and confusion and "stop the ride I want to get off", so I just vaguely went with what the narrative seemed to be directing me to as the optimum choice. "S-so this one brings peace? I want peace... yeah... so, yeah. Okay?"
Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2013 - 10:01 .
You say it like I believe they don't care about their sales, which they do.But there's other things than just sales that they achieved. How is the series anti propaganda? What covert sarcasm are you talking about?SwobyJ wrote...
It's made mainstream for sales.
Developers can put whatever in there, as long as it doesn't hurt image and bottom line.
Yep, guys at the top have significantly more say. They're also the ones you saw make KOTOR and Baldur's Gate.
Making an artistic statement (ohhh there it is!) is different from distributing propaganda.
This series is ANTI propaganda. Just because it has a covert sarcasm about it (imo), doesn't mean that sarcasm should be taken as teh evil illuminati globalists.
The message is Paragon LOST (themselves), and that the Reapers want SYNTHESIS, and that destruction has a COST.
Because some of us chose things doesn't make it propaganda. These are moral decisions in a moral game. I bet you think Warren Spector made propaganda in Deus Ex too. He didn't. He's a nerd that likes those ideas and fantasies and put it into a game. I think I might just do a quick one in RPG Maker tonight just to spite you.
mass perfection wrote...
You say it like I believe they don't care about their sales, which they do.But there's other things than just sales that they achieved. How is the series anti propaganda? What covert sarcasm are you talking about?SwobyJ wrote...
It's made mainstream for sales.
Developers can put whatever in there, as long as it doesn't hurt image and bottom line.
Yep, guys at the top have significantly more say. They're also the ones you saw make KOTOR and Baldur's Gate.
Making an artistic statement (ohhh there it is!) is different from distributing propaganda.
This series is ANTI propaganda. Just because it has a covert sarcasm about it (imo), doesn't mean that sarcasm should be taken as teh evil illuminati globalists.
The message is Paragon LOST (themselves), and that the Reapers want SYNTHESIS, and that destruction has a COST.
Because some of us chose things doesn't make it propaganda. These are moral decisions in a moral game. I bet you think Warren Spector made propaganda in Deus Ex too. He didn't. He's a nerd that likes those ideas and fantasies and put it into a game. I think I might just do a quick one in RPG Maker tonight just to spite you.
Yea ony mak tem n post.Sion1138 wrote...
Do not make typos in thread titles!
Synthesis was covert sarcasm? As was Control and countless other things?SwobyJ wrote...
mass perfection wrote...
You say it like I believe they don't care about their sales, which they do.But there's other things than just sales that they achieved. How is the series anti propaganda? What covert sarcasm are you talking about?SwobyJ wrote...
It's made mainstream for sales.
Developers can put whatever in there, as long as it doesn't hurt image and bottom line.
Yep, guys at the top have significantly more say. They're also the ones you saw make KOTOR and Baldur's Gate.
Making an artistic statement (ohhh there it is!) is different from distributing propaganda.
This series is ANTI propaganda. Just because it has a covert sarcasm about it (imo), doesn't mean that sarcasm should be taken as teh evil illuminati globalists.
The message is Paragon LOST (themselves), and that the Reapers want SYNTHESIS, and that destruction has a COST.
Because some of us chose things doesn't make it propaganda. These are moral decisions in a moral game. I bet you think Warren Spector made propaganda in Deus Ex too. He didn't. He's a nerd that likes those ideas and fantasies and put it into a game. I think I might just do a quick one in RPG Maker tonight just to spite you.
Pay attention to the game next time and maybe you'll find out yourself.
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