255 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

Black Jimmy wrote...

 Haven't seen either. We'll find out Fall 2014

Blunt.

Although that's technically not true.

We saw Orlais in the Dawn of the Seeker movie 

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Tevitner by far. It's not even close.

I would say no.

Tevinter's slaves and pesents. Orlais Serfs and pesents.
Public use of blood magic in Tevinter. Orlais's privest use of blood magic for the noble mage elite.
Both have a history of invasion and subjugation. Both took a dup of the elfs.
Tevinter has a templar army controlled by a currupt circle of mages. Orlais has the chantry in their pocket which is currupt and has an army of templers.


I say they are even.

They aren't even. Tevinter has so many slaves the Imperium would collapse without them. That is not true for Orlais. In Tevinter every non mage is part of the lower classes. Magisters often kill their slaves to perform blood magic because blood and death is benefical to them. There is no such equivilent in Orlais. The codex entry on salvery even mentions that those sent to Orlais to become servants are lucky because they are usally treated gently.

The Imperium is undergoing a centuries long decline and is mired in decadance and corruption. Orlais is experiencing a cultural renaissance under Celene where education and the arts are emphasized and anti-slavery laws are being more enforced. The Imperial Chantry is more directly tied to the state than the White Chantry is. And the White Chantry's templars don't act as an army unless there is an Exalted March, which is rare.

Tevinter's history of conquest outstrips's Orlais' by far. The elves and their culture suffered far greater at the hands of the Imperium than they did at Orlais.

The Grand Game in Orlais are governed by the appearance of honor and thus has to abide by certain rules. In the Imperium power struggles are less restricted and governed by might makes right. Magisters forces will openly attack eachother to gain more slaves or prestige. The entire Imperium has a might males right culture.

"Tevinter's history of conquest outstrips's Orlais' by far.  The elves and their culture suffered far greater at the hands of the Imperium than they did at Orlais."

Only because Teviner is older. And Orlais cut short the elve culturae resurcture.

"The Imperial Chantry is more directly tied to the state than the White Chantry is. "

That's not true at all.

"The Grand Game in Orlais are governed by the appearance of honor and thus has to abide by certain rules."

No not really. The game is very ruthless.

"Magisters forces will openly attack eachother to gain more slaves or prestige. "
With the ame in Orlais they do it privetly. It does not make it better.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Orlais is crap. Tevinter rocks.

[Hellion Rex]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Orlais is crap. Tevinter rocks.

Blood magic!!!!

[windsea]

When it comes down to it they are both bad with some good points too.

They both have an unbalance class system but the tevinter’s lower class seems to be better off than Orlais’.

They both have slavery but Orlais has “outlawed” theirs and it is limited to the Elves

They both have their own chantry

Tevinter is nice to their mages, orlais is not

Tevinter is full of blood mage, orlais is probably not.

Orlesian are annoying.

Without having seen the two we can’t make a good judgment but from what we have seen it seems that the tevinter are honest about themselves whereas the orlesian are hiding behind masks

Modifié par windsea, 30 novembre 2013 - 11:41 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

leaguer of one wrote...
"Tevinter's history of conquest outstrips's Orlais' by far.  The elves and their culture suffered far greater at the hands of the Imperium than they did at Orlais."

Only because Teviner is older. And Orlais cut short the elve culturae resurcture.

Not just that. At their respective heights the Imperium subjugated more peoples and nations. At one point nearly all of Thedas was controlled by the Imperium. That's definitely not true for Orlais. They are also far less brutal to conquered peoples than Tevinter. Halamshiral was not sunk beneath the earth. All elves or Fereldens weren't turned into slaves like the elves of Arlathan were.

leaguer of one wrote...
"The Imperial Chantry is more directly tied to the state than the White Chantry is. "

That's not true at all.

Yes it is. All the highest lelves of Imperial clergy are magisters. They hae seats in the Imperium's governments. World of Thedas even outright states it gives them "much more direct power over the state" than the Andrastian Chantry.

leaguer of one wrote...
"The Grand Game in Orlais are governed by the appearance of honor and thus has to abide by certain rules."

No not really. The game is very ruthless.

I didn't say it wasn't ruthless. But there are limitations to what nobles can do.

leaguer of one wrote...
"Magisters forces will openly attack eachother to gain more slaves or prestige. "
With the ame in Orlais they do it privetly. It does not make it better.

Sure if does. It's much less chaotic and brutal since it involves less people. In Tevinter magisters' power struggles are unrestricted. Orlesian nobles need to do it in private because it is restricted.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:01 .

[BouncyFrag]

Tevinter sounds infinitly more interesting.

[Kalas Magnus]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Tevitner by far. It's not even close.

[windsea]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Tevinter sounds infinitly more interesting.

hahaha that the best reason i have heard so far.

[leaguer of one]

@Jedi Master of Orion 
"Not just that. At their respective heights the Imperium subjugated more peoples and nations. At one point nearly all of Thedas was controlled by the Imperium. That's definitely not true for Orlais. They are also far less brutal to conquered peoples than Tevinter. Halamshiral was not sunk beneath the earth. All elves or Fereldens weren't turned into slaves like the elves of Arlathan were."

That still comes down to Tevinter being older. Given time Orlais can be that far reaching. It's not like Orlais has no goal to expand.

"Yes it is. All the highest lelves of Imperial clergy are magisters. They hae seats in the Imperium's governments. World of Thedas even outright states it gives them "much more direct power over the state" than the Andrastian Chantry."

The White Chantry is in Orlais pocket. Orlais is their biggest benifactor. If Orlais asl the chantry to jump the chantry ask how high. So That's not true at all.

"I didn't say it wasn't ruthless. But there are limitations to what nobles can do."

The limitations are just not mucking up the current order of the state with their privete fight. That's the same with Tevinter

"Sure if does. It's much less chaotic and brutal since it involves less people. In Tevinter magisters' power struggles are unrestricted. Orlesian nobles need to do it in private because it is restricted."

Please, the do it in private to hold face value, not out of honor. It's done that way out of pride.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:21 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Orlais has been around for almost a thousand years. In that same amount of time Tevinter conquered most of the known world. It's not just that they are older, they have a greater tendency to conquer their neighbors. And the age of the Imperium doesn't make them automatically more brutal than Orlais but they are.

Yes it is true. World of Thedas confirms what I said almost word for word. Orlais and the Chantry are connected but they aren't one and the same like the Imperial Chantry is with the Imperium.

Yeah it's the appearance of honor that makes the nobles fight for power in private. If they get caught they lose. It's a restriction. One that Tevinter doesn't have.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 décembre 2013 - 12:34 .

[Uccio]

Tevinter is the beacon of light for all mages. There is nothing evil in there.

[HiroVoid]

Ukki wrote...

Tevinter is the beacon of light for all mages. There is nothing evil in there.

What about the weaker mages that are enslaved?

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Orlais is crap. Tevinter rocks.

Blood magic!!!!

Theirs nothing wrong with blood magic

[HiroVoid]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Orlais is crap. Tevinter rocks.

Blood magic!!!!

Theirs nothing wrong with blood magic

Aside from it being empowered by killing off others?  Blood magic can have good uses, but it certainly has plenty of wrong aspects.

[Battlebloodmage]

Having to listen to a country of full of Isolde is what I imagine Hell would be like.

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Orlais has been around for almost a thousand years. In that same amount of time Tevinter conquered most of the known world. It's not just that they are older, they have a greater tendency to conquer their neighbors. And the age of the Imperium doesn't make them automatically more brutal than Orlais but they are.

Yes it is true. World of Thedas confirms what I said almost word for word. Orlais and the Chantry are connected but they aren't one and the same like the Imperial Chantry is with the Imperium.

Yeah it's the appearance of honor that makes the nobles fight for power in private. If they get caught they lose. It's a restriction. One that Tevinter doesn't have.

1.Tevintor had lass compations Orlais had at that time. And even then it's not like Orlais did not try to do the same. 
Sorry, but it just comes down to Teventor being older.

2. The only difference between the black chantry and White chantry is the black is the ruling party and the white is in the pocket of the ruling party. Both case come to the same end.

3.So what? that does not make it less messy. They just have to make sure the mess is not pointed at any nobles.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

1. No it doesn't. Orlais has made less attempts to conquer neighbors in the same amount of time than Tevinter did. And you know what? Even if it IS just because Tevinter is older, it doesn't matter. It still makes Orlais better because they have fewer conquests regardless of the reason.

2. The chantry and the Orlesian Empire don't have the same ruler or a single will. Their roles are different. And it's not like the chantry constantly intervenes on Orlais behalf. Exalted Marches are pretty rare.

3. Of course it makes things less messy.

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

1. No it doesn't. Orlais has made less attempts to conquer neighbors in the same amount of time than Tevinter did. And you know what? Even if it IS just because Tevinter is older, it doesn't matter. It still makes Orlais better because they have fewer conquests regardless of the reason.

2. The chantry and the Orlesian Empire don't have the same ruler or a single will. Their roles are different. And it's not like the chantry constantly intervenes on Orlais behalf. Exalted Marches are pretty rare.

3. Of course it makes things less messy.

1.That's not true. Orlais made plentry of attemt. It was just stopped by the random coming of a blight and the invation of the Qun. They hand many marches on other counties and people. Unlike Orlais, the Tevinter never have anything  like the servival of the human race stop their campains.

2. The Chantry's will is want ever Orlais tell them what it is. If you're now seeing the roles are different, that was my point. The black chantry is the ruling party in tevinter while in Orlias it control by the nobles. The point is Orlais is in control of the white chantry and make the white chantry do what they want.

3. Not when an entire family of nobles and their servents are killed off and when a civil war happens because of it.

[The Qun & the Damned]

Both are ducked up in their own special little way, but Tevinter takes the cake. Slavery, blood magic, ritualistic sacrifice, and corruption, that's basically Orlais with less funny accents and more eviscerating magic.

[windsea]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Having to listen to a country of full of Isolde is what I imagine Hell would be like.

ok that sold me, tevinter is better.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

leaguer of one wrote...

1.That's not true. Orlais made plentry of attemt. It was just stopped by the random coming of a blight and the invation of the Qun. They hand many marches on other counties and people. Unlike Orlais, the Tevinter never have anything  like the servival of the human race stop their campains.

2. The Chantry's will is want ever Orlais tell them what it is. If you're now seeing the roles are different, that was my point. The black chantry is the ruling party in tevinter while in Orlias it control by the nobles. The point is Orlais is in control of the white chantry and make the white chantry do what they want.

3. Not when an entire family of nobles and their servents are killed off and when a civil war happens because of it.

1. Uh, the reason the Imperium began to fall into decline was because of the First Blight. And even that didn't stop them from trying to reconquer the Free Marches on more than one occasion. Orlais was still strong even after the Blights, and didn't attempt to conquer as much as the Imperium did. But as I said, why doesn't matter. The Orlesian Empire has less of a history of conquest compared to the Tevinter Imperium.

2. No The Chantry's will is the Chantry's will. The Divine doesn't answer to Orlaisian nobility. What I meant was the role of the Chantry in Thedas covers different areas than the Orlesian Nobles. Their power structure and purpose is different.  The Empire may have influence but can't just make the Chantry do whatever they want. Otherwise every enemy Orlais has ever had would have been aided by an Exalted March.

3. A rebellion or civil war is not quite the same as the nobles grand game. The Imperium has a lot of those as well but that's not what I was talking about. Although now that you mention it, the Imperium is also worse in keeping order because Fenris says there are slaves rebellions all the time.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 décembre 2013 - 02:01 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

No country in Thedas is free of horrible sins but between Orlais and Tevinter Orlais is the worst of the two.

They are both guilty of having slaves, crushing the elven people, and trying to occupy and subjugate other nations. I actually found it hysterical how identical both countries were when a Blight occurred. Both countries were more than strong enough to hold back the Darkspawn however the countries in between them suffered greatly once they saw how weak they had become both Tevinter and Orlais took over the countries and held them until the nations were able to fight the occupiers out.

The truth is Orlais is the mundane ruled version of Tevinter the only reason I say Orlais is worse is because at least Tevinter is honest they don't hide the fact they have slaves or treat certain groups worse than their own however Orlais likes to pretend that its the moral center of the world and their hands are clean despite the fact they are just as guilty as Tevinter is.

So Orlais is worse because of their hypocrisy.

[MrMrPendragon]

Orlais is better with their Orlesian maids and their sexy Orlesian maid costumes.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

No country in Thedas is free of horrible sins but between Orlais and Tevinter Orlais is the worst of the two.

They are both guilty of having slaves, crushing the elven people, and trying to occupy and subjugate other nations. I actually found it hysterical how identical both countries were when a Blight occurred. Both countries were more than strong enough to hold back the Darkspawn however the countries in between them suffered greatly once they saw how weak they had become both Tevinter and Orlais took over the countries and held them until the nations were able to fight the occupiers out.

The truth is Orlais is the mundane ruled version of Tevinter the only reason I say Orlais is worse is because at least Tevinter is honest they don't hide the fact they have slaves or treat certain groups worse than their own however Orlais likes to pretend that its the moral center of the world and their hands are clean despite the fact they are just as guilty as Tevinter is.

So Orlais is worse because of their hypocrisy.

I've already posted why that is wrong. Every bad thing Orlais has done, Tevinter has done greater in magnitude and quantity. Orlais is not as guilty as Tevinter is.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 décembre 2013 - 02:05 .