255 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

My point was not that Chevaliers are "honorable" by our standards. All I was trying to say was that Chevliars don't have absolutely power within Orlesian society. There are certain circumstances that they are expected to embrace death before dishonor. Magisters aren't under any such social restrictions.

In the Imperium, all mages have the potential for social advancement. Since Tevinter is so magocentric, I think it supersedes just about all other considerations. A mage could be anything from a slave to a magister. But I don't think Fenris's family is an example that is typical of freed slaves. World of Thedas says "Freed slaves are still not considered citizens. They are instead known as Liberati, a sub class with limited rights."

Orlais has it's own potential for social advancement. If peasants become wealthy enough they could technically join the ranks of the nobility. Although World of Thedas does say that this is "exceptionally rare."

[Plaintiff]

Racist, treacherous imperialists who use religion to justify their bloody expansion... or slavers.

Might as well ask if I want to be punched on the right or left side of my face.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 décembre 2013 - 04:20 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Tevinter aka chaotic mess.

[sylvanaerie]

Tevinter, because the potential for abuse is so much higher with the prevalence of blood magic. But neither are fluffy bunnies.

[Dabrikishaw]

Tevinter

[The Baconer]

Orlesians are scum, but the archons have f***ed up so badly that there is no salvaging Tevinter now.

Though, it's probably the only place you can score some Kossith slaves so that's definitely a plus.

[Uccio]

HiroVoid wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Tevinter is the beacon of light for all mages. There is nothing evil in there.

What about the weaker mages that are enslaved?

Such is life in fantasy medieval times. It's not like elves or peasants live in much better conditions anywhere else. There is no democracy anywhere in Thedas. Tevinter does not stick out much. Chantry is the reason why people fear Tevinter, Chantry with their hate propaganda against mages.

[KainD]

Orlais - a country of intrigues and spies. I like honesty, and I respect Tevinter for it's honesty of might makes right and I respect their way of life. Orlais, not so much.

Modifié par KainD, 01 décembre 2013 - 08:28 .

[Sir JK]

Neither country is worse. They're just countries.

Sure, Orlais is extremely militaristic and Tevinter is dominated by a cutthroat magical elite. They're both bringing their own slew of problems to the world but also their advantages. They both have bad people, both in high and low positions.

But ultimately, they're just countries. The world would not be any happier if it was Anderfels and Ferelden that were the premier powers. Nor would it be if it was Nevarra, Free Marches, Rivain or Antiva. It would not be happier if the elves or the Qunari or the dwarves were dominant either.

Yeah, the chevaliers have a carte blache to deal with commoners as they please in return for their sworn loyalty to the empire. But the Orlesian commoners idolize them and, in theory anyways, anyone can join the chevaliers. The bards and the Chantry itself are also fairly open in terms of who can join them.

Tevinter's slavery is a plague on the rest of Thedas and the blood magic is it's own dirty open secret. But it's one of very few cultures (and the only big one) were mages are fairly tolerated if not celebrated and it stands as the principal bulwark against the Qunari and as such, for the time being, spares the rest of Thedas a very difficult war.

So all in all... they're just countries. Their cultures are niether worse nor better. What's important is the people we'll meet.

[MissOuJ]

Plaintiff wrote...

Racist, treacherous imperialists who use religion to justify their bloody expansion... or slavers.

Might as well ask if I want to be punched on the right or left side of my face.

Yeah, pretty much.

I really, really wish we get to screw both of Orleaisan Tevinter elites over in DA:I like we could mess with the noble cast in DA:O - I'm not a big fan of Bhelen, but helping the castless and angering the upper casts is always worth it.

[The Hierophant]

For now i'd go with Tevinter. Slavery and blood sacrifices is a heck of a combination.

[Gileadan]

You might as well ask which affliction is nicer, plague or cholera.

I'd rather stay away from both, thank you very much.

[dragonflight288]

Sir JK wrote...

Neither country is worse. They're just countries.

Sure, Orlais is extremely militaristic and Tevinter is dominated by a cutthroat magical elite. They're both bringing their own slew of problems to the world but also their advantages. They both have bad people, both in high and low positions.

But ultimately, they're just countries. The world would not be any happier if it was Anderfels and Ferelden that were the premier powers. Nor would it be if it was Nevarra, Free Marches, Rivain or Antiva. It would not be happier if the elves or the Qunari or the dwarves were dominant either.

Yeah, the chevaliers have a carte blache to deal with commoners as they please in return for their sworn loyalty to the empire. But the Orlesian commoners idolize them and, in theory anyways, anyone can join the chevaliers. The bards and the Chantry itself are also fairly open in terms of who can join them.

Tevinter's slavery is a plague on the rest of Thedas and the blood magic is it's own dirty open secret. But it's one of very few cultures (and the only big one) were mages are fairly tolerated if not celebrated and it stands as the principal bulwark against the Qunari and as such, for the time being, spares the rest of Thedas a very difficult war.

So all in all... they're just countries. Their cultures are niether worse nor better. What's important is the people we'll meet.

that's a good way of putting it.

[Roki Diolun]

Orlais, because its full of Orlesians. and because they are basically France.

[Lord Raijin]

HiroVoid wrote...
Which they have and will.

Same goes for swords, hammers and daggers

[Karlone123]

MissOuJ wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Racist, treacherous imperialists who use religion to justify their bloody expansion... or slavers.

Might as well ask if I want to be punched on the right or left side of my face.

Yeah, pretty much.

I really, really wish we get to screw both of Orleaisan Tevinter elites over in DA:I like we could mess with the noble cast in DA:O - I'm not a big fan of Bhelen, but helping the castless and angering the upper casts is always worth it.

Stick it to the wealthy elites? I can get behind a cause like that.

On topic: Depending on where you are coming from in Thedas, The way Tevinter does things (i.e slave trade, enabling Magisters to rule) works for them as it gained them continental power and influence only to be brought down by a thousand years of Blights, Exalted Marches, Qunari invasions and Andraste's rebellion. There is something to respect Tevinter for surviving everything hurled at it.

It all depends on what your ingame perspective is as mine changes with each character I play, as I might associate with Fereldan's Chantry and be completely against Tevinter, Or I could be an apostate wishing for another Imperium to rise. My characters' choices and opinions are not same as each other. It's all about perpective.

[ladyofpayne]

Tevinter. Quinari please make sarebasses from them.

[Medhia Nox]

@Sir JK: While I agree with your sentiment in principle, I do not believe that "countries are just countries" is really a valid statement.

While it could be said that all countries have risen to power through war - not all do so through slavery, genocide or extreme oppression (I believe there is a difference between law and oppression).

A militant caste of knights, the chevaliers, trade service for freedoms. They're very much like medieval knights and samurai who had the same privileges. As you state, the majority of the populace idolizes them. People do not generally idolize something that is overbearingly corrupt to them (the "to them" is very important in my statement.) While Orleasians wouldn't care if Fereldens were mistreated - that is simply the way of humans (or mortals - in the case of fantasy worlds). I could use real life examples - but those never go well.

Tevinter is Imperialist, even if currently backed into a corner. They're slavers, and not just of non-mages. Weaker mages are also mistreated. And, on top of all this, they regularly practice blood sacrifices for power. I cannot imagine anyone in Tevinter idolizing the magisters. Jealously coveting their power? Sure. Idolizing them? No.

As for "sticking it to the man" - it's the dream of every wastrel and jealous peasant since time immemorial. Fortunately, for those in power, there's a reason why the common man is so common. Most men choose to follow or get out of the way (except in the convenient safety of a video game fantasies I suppose - where a revolution is both safe and guaranteed successful)

[jaza]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Sweden

[Asdrubael Vect]

Orlais, Antiva and Qunari

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 01 décembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[MissOuJ]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Orlais, Antiva and Qunari

What's Antiva done?

[kathic]

Your typical aristocratic/royal society that is above the law or the society that has slavery and blood sacrifice? Not rocket science.

[General TSAR]

The Magocracy duh.