721 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

DA:I is going to be a good next-gen game. So, let's not judge the game by pre-alfa based videos, and hope for the following things in release:

 - Best possible facial motion capture for all facial expressions and talking.
 - Best possible gestures/move/attack motion capture, and as many variants of all of that as possible.
 - Best possible motion captured sequences for all dialogue scenes and cut-scenes.

In a next-gen game characters shouldn't look like or act like a dolls. A lot of good actors' work can make them truly alive.

I'm not talking about turning DA:I into an interactive movie. But visual quality of the same level as in The Last of Us, for example, is simply required for a next-gen game. Even if it's an RPG with much larger amount of dialogues and cutscenes.

[TKavatar]

Well DAI had some pretty amazing terrain aware animations. So that's a start.

Mocapping is a different matter though. DA has tons of scenes and dialogue, it would be too resource intensive to them to mocap every scene.

[JCAP]

Yeah, don't expect mocapping. There are just too many scenes.

[zMataxa]

Seival wrote...

But visual quality of the same level as in The Last of Us, for example, is simply required for a next-gen game. Even if it's an RPG with much larger amount of dialogues and cutscenes.

_________

And you still expect this for $60?
I'll happily trade the visuals for the better story & characters & a longer gameplay like Bioware usually provides.
And I'm a very visual person. 
Last thing I want is this new trend like "Remember me" or "Ryse" where you get 10 hours of gameplay.

[Angrywolves]

Visuals are usually secondary to the roleplaying.
shrugs.

[Seival]

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

[JCAP]

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no. Terrible idea. Just no.

RPG: Story first, visuals later!

[Ianamus]

I don't want them cutting down dialogue for slightly improved visuals- that would be absolutely awful.

[TKavatar]

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

You have got to be joking.

[Usergnome]

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

Yes, it is too late. And no, they aren't in the early stages of development.

And no, don't compare it to Last of Us. Last of Us was a linear story you could not change, you were forced to play through the story and see everything they had prepared.

DAI is not like that; there will be content that locks and unlocks based on the choices you make. There is simply WAY too much of that in any DA/ME game to have the quality of Last of Us scenes. If you want to take those away, realize this is NOT last of us and just because you like that game does not mean every game should be like it.

And while we're talking about the Last of Us, beyond visuals, why do people consider it good? The enemy Ai during stealth is stupid, its a typical post-apocalyptic zombie-like story, and the ending was stupid; I mean, seriously? Who would have guessed Joel would have began to like Ellie, and why did he NOT think that she wouldn't be completely occupied and saying goodbye to freedom after the cure for humanity is found? Of course they're going to take her life away to study, duh.

[Seival]

zMataxa wrote...

Seival wrote...

But visual quality of the same level as in The Last of Us, for example, is simply required for a next-gen game. Even if it's an RPG with much larger amount of dialogues and cutscenes.

_________

And you still expect this for $60?
I'll happily trade the visuals for the better story & characters & a longer gameplay like Bioware usually provides.
And I'm a very visual person. 
Last thing I want is this new trend like "Remember me" or "Ryse" where you get 10 hours of gameplay.

I'd rather be happy with a 10-hours long heavily story-driven game with the best possible visual part and story, and without too much gameplay, than with a 50-hours long story-driven game with excess side quests, really short main plot, and gameplay that requires too large amount of doing the same thing over and over again.

[zMataxa]

Seival wrote...

I'd rather be happy with a 10-hours long heavily story-driven game with the best possible visual part and story, and without too much gameplay, than with a 50-hours long story-driven game with excess side quests, really short main plot, and gameplay that requires too large amount of doing the same thing over and over again.

_______

Well I hope the Bioware studios continue to produce as before to some of our tastes, and that you continue to find other studios that cater to your tastes.  Seems fair that way.

Modifié par zMataxa, 01 décembre 2013 - 07:05 .

[Muspade]

I hope bioware does not heed OP's wishes, like so many others have expressed.

[bEVEsthda]

I disagree in a sort of vague, general form.

The visuals maybe need to be modern. For once. But that's just so the game can stand against it's contemporaries.
It's not an easy job. Modern visuals are a tough demand. Bioware's games usually either don't live up to it at all, or just misses.

But they don't make the game come alive. I call BS on that. I just installed BG EE, and it's plenty alive. And so are a bunch of other old games with crappy visuals. I'd actually think sound is more important. Good environmental and atmospheric sound makes games come alive.
Higher definition visuals are actually an increased risk. The more detail, the more chance of some of those details coming out as wrong. But yea, the game could do with contemporary visuals. But that's not in order to come alive, but rather to be taken seriously.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 01 décembre 2013 - 07:14 .

[Rawgrim]

I think the graphics looks great as they are. I started playing rpgs in the late 80s, so I am probably battle-hardened when it comes to graphics.

[t0mm06]

Seival wrote...

 - Best possible facial motion capture for all facial expressions and talking.
 - Best possible gestures/move/attack motion capture, and as many variants of all of that as possible.
 - Best possible motion captured sequences for all dialogue scenes and cut-scenes.

As an animator who actually thinks that Motion capture is very useful and have nothing agaist it. 
I fully disagree with the Facial motion capture point.

Facial motion capture is really bad, and most of the time doesnt sync up with the body movement as it has to be captured seperatly. 

No the secret of good facial animation is to have an animator Animate it by hand. This way you neither have poor facial movement, or ave the issue that L.A Noir had which meant the animations A. Didnt sync up with the body B. Took up so much power that you couldnt have more then 2 on screen at a time or C. Didnt actually show what they were meant too

EDIT:

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

First and formost, yes it is to late. If we accept that they are goign for the fall 2014 deadline and assume this means early november ( a popular time for game releases) then we can safely assume that teh actual developers only have about 10 months left, as they generally have at leats a month to print and distribute. 

Modifié par t0mm06, 01 décembre 2013 - 07:24 .

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

Brilliant Idea.

Reduce the number of RPG elements in a RPG game. <_<

[JCAP]

General TSAR wrote...

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

Brilliant Idea.

Reduce the number of RPG elements in a RPG game. <_<

Remember Mass Effect 3? They sacrificed rpg elements (auto-dialogue). Look at what happened. 


Bioware fanbase is RPG oriented. Sacrificing what makes a RPG a RPG is really a good way to ****** them off.



OP, you probably want games like Heavy Rain, Fahrenheit or Beyond 2 Souls. Check them out.

[LOLandStuff]

Why play for the story when you can simply stare at the game.

[Huge_Beaver]

You must be trolling...

[Seival]

JCAP wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

Brilliant Idea.

Reduce the number of RPG elements in a RPG game. <_<

Remember Mass Effect 3? They sacrificed rpg elements (auto-dialogue). Look at what happened. 


Bioware fanbase is RPG oriented. Sacrificing what makes a RPG a RPG is really a good way to ****** them off.



OP, you probably want games like Heavy Rain, Fahrenheit or Beyond 2 Souls. Check them out.

I believe that ME3 was a step in right direction compared to what they did before. And actually, the comparison is quite appropriate here. You can say that I want DA:I to be more like ME3 than like DA:O. And DA:I should step in that direction even further, considering it will be next-gen game.

[Jozape]

I personally think the game looks visually splendid from what I have seen, but:

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

I would not call 1 year from release "early stage of development", but I am down for decreasing the amount of cutscenes and possibly dialogue. For me, interactive dialogue has been getting worse with each new game, and reducing the amount of it may actually improve the game, as long as other areas of the game pick up the slack in the creativity department.

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...
I believe that ME3 was a step in right direction compared to what they did before.

 
Railroading and illusion of choice is the right direction?

That would explain why you adore Mr. "Game over is a failure of the game design" and his interactive movies(that are oh so terrible and predictable in terms of plot).

Modifié par General TSAR, 01 décembre 2013 - 08:42 .

[Afro_Explosion]

Kill the heretic! The blasphemer shall burn!!!!

Modifié par mx_keep13, 01 décembre 2013 - 08:42 .