721 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

AresKeith wrote...

JCAP wrote...

Seival wrote...

They can decrease the planned amount of cut-scenes and dialogues to make the rest look much better. It's not too late yet. They are still on the early stage of development.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no. Terrible idea. Just no.

RPG: Story first, visuals later!

Also, the game looks fine. Much better than a lof things that I have seen. Calm down. 

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

A little bit of mocap for things like basic conversation anims and running animations, sure. Cutting content down for that, though? Yeah, no.

And it's running on Frostbite 3. I don't think we need to worry about visuals.

[Milan92]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

A little bit of mocap for things like basic conversation anims and running animations, sure. Cutting content down for that, though? Yeah, no.

And it's running on Frostbite 3. I don't think we need to worry about visuals.

My only problem with mocap though is that they won't be able to hire certain VA's for the voices since they don't have experience with it.. Unless they record the lines seperately and then do the mocap with the dialogue in the background - then it doesn't matter ofcourse.

[Seival]

simfamSP wrote...

Seival wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I believe that ME3 was a step in right direction compared to what they did before. And actually, the comparison is quite appropriate here. You can say that I want DA:I to be more like ME3 than like DA:O. And DA:I should step in that direction even further, considering it will be next-gen game.

Sorry Sevial, but have you lost your mind? I understand you love the entire 'cinematic experience' thing. But what the hell is creating a character for if I'm just supposed to hear him say things. It aint an RPG if I can't CONTROL and SPEAK for my character.

You can control and speak for your character for 5 hours with great level of execution of cutscenes and dialogues, or you can control and speak for your character for 20 hours with poor execution level of cutscenes and dialogues. Personally, I prefer 5 hours with great level of execution. And this will still be an RPG.

A flashy five hour experience is hardly superior to the 20 hour experience simply because of gameplay/story seggregation problems. They can easily go hand in hand like the Last of Us, a 20 hour ride with combat, gameplay and cinematics galore. A really solid game.

Planescape: Torment is by far the most story-oriented game I have played. And yes, it includes Heavy Rain within that list.

Cinematics have never made the story 'better.' You're blind as a bat if you say so, mate. It's made a game's narrative flow better, it's helped yes. But a cutscene works just as well if in CGI or in the bloody infinty engine.

What makes the story great is engaging dialogue, a tight script and a coherent narrative. Which ME3 only achieved 1/3 of these things and sometimes 2. It's hardly more story orientated simply because it's more cinematic. Or have you ever played A Machine for Pigs?

Hell, 5 hours aint even enough for me to care about characters. Seriously, if it aint 3 hours and good, or a trilogy/series, I don't give a damn about any character in a film ever.

I literally laughed when the little black girl in the hunger games died. I was like "am I supposed to care? I met this **** 5 minutes ago."

Try playing text RPGs then. You will definitely find them much more entertaining than even old school RPGs like Planescape. No visual part at all - just text. Also, check out some low-budget RPG kickstarters, you might find them very interesting. But please, don't expect BioWare to return to oldschool even a little. DA:I will obviously be a AAA modern game, not a DA:O or Baldur's Gate revamp.

I'm blind because I find visual part very important? On the contrary - you are blind, because you can't see the visual part, and how important it is. Only professional actors' work will make you truly feel what characters on the screen feel, and VOs are not enough for that. Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Ideas used in a story and its scenario are very important indeed, and how good and professional the ideas/scenario are shown is equally important. I can't take a story in a game seriously enough, if I don't see the story as professional in all terms performance. No scripted doll will ever make a character truly realistic and living. Only professional actor can do that with her/his voice, motion, and facial expressions. That's why motion capture is required to create truly story driven games.

Modifié par Seival, 02 décembre 2013 - 08:45 .

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Milan92 wrote...

My only problem with mocap though is that they won't be able to hire certain VA's for the voices since they don't have experience with it.. Unless they record the lines seperately and then do the mocap with the dialogue in the background - then it doesn't matter ofcourse.

I imagine BioWare is sticking with the 'bunch of animations reused for every conversation' thing given the amount of dialogue, so somebody else can do those. Running animations, too. 

I think having the actual actor doing the mocap is only really necessary when you're doing facial capture too.

[Leo]

Seival wrote...

Pious_Augustine wrote...

Nah, the game actually looks visually good already.

No, it doesn't. They have tons of work to do before the release.

How so?

What exactly is wrong with it?

Because as far as I'm concerned it looks good.

[Seival]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

A little bit of mocap for things like basic conversation anims and running animations, sure. Cutting content down for that, though? Yeah, no.

And it's running on Frostbite 3. I don't think we need to worry about visuals.

I don't worry about models and textures here. I worry mostly about at what capacity and quality motion capture and professional actors' work will be used. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Seival wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Seival wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I believe that ME3 was a step in right direction compared to what they did before. And actually, the comparison is quite appropriate here. You can say that I want DA:I to be more like ME3 than like DA:O. And DA:I should step in that direction even further, considering it will be next-gen game.

Sorry Sevial, but have you lost your mind? I understand you love the entire 'cinematic experience' thing. But what the hell is creating a character for if I'm just supposed to hear him say things. It aint an RPG if I can't CONTROL and SPEAK for my character.

You can control and speak for your character for 5 hours with great level of execution of cutscenes and dialogues, or you can control and speak for your character for 20 hours with poor execution level of cutscenes and dialogues. Personally, I prefer 5 hours with great level of execution. And this will still be an RPG.

A flashy five hour experience is hardly superior to the 20 hour experience simply because of gameplay/story seggregation problems. They can easily go hand in hand like the Last of Us, a 20 hour ride with combat, gameplay and cinematics galore. A really solid game.

Planescape: Torment is by far the most story-oriented game I have played. And yes, it includes Heavy Rain within that list.

Cinematics have never made the story 'better.' You're blind as a bat if you say so, mate. It's made a game's narrative flow better, it's helped yes. But a cutscene works just as well if in CGI or in the bloody infinty engine.

What makes the story great is engaging dialogue, a tight script and a coherent narrative. Which ME3 only achieved 1/3 of these things and sometimes 2. It's hardly more story orientated simply because it's more cinematic. Or have you ever played A Machine for Pigs?

Hell, 5 hours aint even enough for me to care about characters. Seriously, if it aint 3 hours and good, or a trilogy/series, I don't give a damn about any character in a film ever.

I literally laughed when the little black girl in the hunger games died. I was like "am I supposed to care? I met this **** 5 minutes ago."

Try playing text RPGs then. You will definitely find them much more entertaining than even old school RPGs like Planescape. No visual part at all - just text. Also, check out some low-budget RPG kickstarters, you might find them very interesting. But please, don't expect BioWare to return to oldschool even a little. DA:I will obviously be a AAA modern game, not a DA:O or Baldur's Gate revamp.

I'm blind because I find visual part very important? On the contrary - you are blind, because you can't see the visual part, and how important it is. Only professional actors' work will make you truly feel what characters on the screen feel, and VOs are not enough for that. Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Ideas used in a story and its scenario are very important indeed, and how good and professional the ideas/scenario are shown is equally important. I can't take a story in a game seriously enough, if I don't see the story as professional in all terms performance. No scripted doll will ever make a character truly realistic and living. Only professional actor can do that with her/his voice, motion, and facial expressions. That's why motion capture is required to create truly story driven games.

Are you calling voice actors inadequate? Go sit and spin you uncultured swine.

[Cainhurst Crow]

J. Reezy wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Are you calling voice actors inadequate? Go sit and spin you uncultured swine.

The blasphemy in his posts are too much to take. There is a rage building up within. Darth help me.

Embrace it in the name of khorne reezy! His blood must be given to the blood god!

[Cainhurst Crow]

And what exactly does it mean to be "professional", seviel seems to use it to describe three different things that are unrelated to each other.

And as for "professional" actors, most of the actors who would be considered professional didn't start out in the profession at all. It is important to get new actors, fresh talent so that they can get their chance to shine and start off their careers, not just have a giant wall against them so that more well known names can take up the spot.

[Seival]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Seival wrote...

 But please, don't expect BioWare to return to oldschool even a little. DA:I will obviously be a AAA modern game, not a DA:O or Baldur's Gate revamp.

Is that why Bioware has returned the tactical camera? Is that why Bioware removed level scaling? Is that why Bioware removed total health regen?

I'm not sure you know the game you're talking about.

You listed the features that any game can use.

Remember Me, for example:
 - Health isn't regenerating automatically, so you have to use your skills to keep your character alive.
 - Your character isn't becoming overpowered while progressing through the game.
 - You can place game on "pause" to open the abilities menu and think about current combat situation to figure out what should you do next.

And Remember Me is a great modern AAA heavily story-driven game, not some old-school boredom.

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...
Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Metal Gear Solid 1 says you are a complete liar.

[Cainhurst Crow]

A new game can still use old school game features and still be new sevial. There isn't a dichotomy relationship involved.

[Rusty Sandusky]

Seival wrote...
Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Are you actually David Cage?

[Zeldrik1389]

Seival wrote...
Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy 1 to 7, and the list go on...

[Cainhurst Crow]

We can extend this argument he's making to more then just games. Animated films, CGI films, sevial has basically said none of them are ever as emotional as a movie with "professional actors"

Hear that? Resident Evil the film > Resident Evil the games according to sevial, because the later has actual actors in it and not voice actors.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Seival wrote...

Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Why would you need a strong emotional connection with game characters?  I only ever have a strong connection to the characters I create, and that is damaged by the detailed visuals of modern games, not enhanced by it.

[General TSAR]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Hear that? Resident Evil the film > Resident Evil the games according to sevial, because the later has actual actors in it and not voice actors.

BLASPHEMY!!

[Seival]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Seival wrote...
Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy 1 to 7, and the list go on...

The list of games that look like a joke by modern standards. Don't get me wrong, I was a fan of games like Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate. But that was long ago. Now these old games can cause nothing but a silly smile. They are too old and outdated on all possible levels.

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...
The list of games that look like a joke by modern standards. Don't get me wrong, I was a fan of games like Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate. But that was long ago. Now these old games can cause nothing but a silly smile. They are too old and outdated on all possible levels.

Quoted for major LOL.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Seival wrote...

The list of games that look like a joke by modern standards. Don't get me wrong, I was a fan of games like Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate. But that was long ago. Now these old games can cause nothing but a silly smile. They are too old and outdated on all possible levels.

The list of my all-time favourite RPGs contains exactly one title released since 2000.

I don't play RPGs to be told a story.  I play RPGs to craft my own story, and detailed visuals don't always help with that.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Seival wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Seival wrote...
Low-poly dolls with primitive animations will naver provide truly strong emotional connection with game characters.

Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy 1 to 7, and the list go on...

The list of games that look like a joke by modern standards. Don't get me wrong, I was a fan of games like Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate. But that was long ago. Now these old games can cause nothing but a silly smile. They are too old and outdated on all possible levels.

So, I see you've fully embraced the dark side of the force then, M8?