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[Eternal Phoenix]

Now just remember: this is a forum and forums are for discussing opinions so don't feel offended at this if you disagree but I feel as if this didn't live up to NWN1. (Only adding this disclaimer because last time some trolls accused me of trolling for disagreeing with their opinion when I was playing through the game)

It seems Obsidian were trying to replicate an experience similar to that of Baldur's Gate rather than the first game but the final result was a game that didn't know what it was doing. The clear development emphasis on graphics meant other areas didn't get nearly as much development time which is still seen in the horrible overly-sensitive camera which acts as if I'm assaulting it everytime I attempt to move it.

We're thrust into a world which is actually much more linear than the first game and you're technically rail-roaded into one direction (towards the city). NWN's structure was different with a hub in every chapter and everything centering around that but you could progress non-linearly.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's a bad game but Neverwinter Nights 1 excels in terms of its technical aspects and structure (even if suffering from a average OC as well) and NWN2 (apart from adding more races and improving the graphics) felt like a step down in comparison.

Cool story bro? Maybe but I always see people in the off-topic section mostly speaking of NWN2 and not the first. So I'm just posting this here with my opinion to wonder if anyone here feels the same: that the first was far better or maybe there's people here who didn't even enjoy the first game?

It's like with Baldur's Gate for me. I thought the first one was far better than the sequel (although the sequel outshined the first in many aspects, I still enjoyed the first game more).

[Tchos]

Elton John is dead wrote...
The clear development emphasis on graphics meant other areas didn't get nearly as much development time which is still seen in the horrible overly-sensitive camera which acts as if I'm assaulting it everytime I attempt to move it.

We're thrust into a world which is actually much more linear than the first game

I'm just posting this here with my opinion to wonder if anyone here feels the same: that the first was far better or maybe there's people here who didn't even enjoy the first game?

Set the camera sensitivity slider to the lowest setting.

The first NWN game hasn't held my interest, primarily because of the uncontrollable henchmen.  For D&D based games, I want a full party, fully controllable, like in the Infinity Engine games and Dragon Age: Origins, which NWN2 provides.  Nothing else is as important for me.  The additional features added by the expansions (wandering monster resting system, party creation, party chat, overland map, etc.) seal the deal for me.

Linear?  Couldn't say.  Try Storm of Zehir once the overland map opens up?

Background: I like both Baldur's Gate games pretty much equally.  I loved all three of the official campaigns of NWN2, all for different reasons, because they offered different things.

It's not the graphics that keeps me playing NWN2.  I play and enjoy games with far worse graphics than either of the NWN games.  (I don't think that the stock NWN2 graphics are particularly beautiful.)

[kevL]

I strongly agree that NwN1 is far better technically.

but I can't go back ( i tried )

[Dann-J]

NWN2 might lack a certain amount of substance, but once you've seen the improved models it's hard to go back to NWN. Most of the creature and player models in NWN were just awful. Then again, The Witcher did the same to NWN2 for me.

Sadly, that's true of many of the older games. At the time they seemed cutting-edge, but once you've played a more recent game with much better sound and graphics, it pretty much ruins the older games for you. No matter how engaging their stories or game play might be, us humans are at heart superficial creatures who *do* judge books by their covers.

The increasing size and resolution of monitors probably contributes as well. The original Baldur's Gate didn't seem too bad on a 640x480 CRT monitor (or at least, no worse than anything else). But playing it on a 1440x900 monitor (or even bigger) either makes it look like a postage stamp, or like Mr Blocky goes to Lego Land if you install the patch that allows you to increase the window size.

Modifié par DannJ, 02 décembre 2013 - 12:40 .

[eroeru]

Try the next two campaigns. The first one is ****ty.

But the camera and UI *are* in fact horrid. That's pretty much the common opinion as far I've grasped.

Sure, this will make the game extremely difficult to get into, but some aspects of the two other campaigns will bring things to perspective.

Modifié par eroeru, 02 décembre 2013 - 12:44 .

[Dann-J]

The NWN2 camera certainly was terrible when it was first released, but after 'Exploration Mode' was introduced in one of the later patches I never even considered switching back to one of the other camera styles again. I find it one of the better camera styles I've encountered in any game.

[kevL]

idk about graphics..

I play xcom:ufo and its native res. is 320x200 (blown up to 1680x1050). It gives it a cartoon charm and it's just an amazing game. NwN has the same sort of feel, but flatland plus lack of henchman control plus DnD3.0 were outweighed by some stunning scenery (don't look in the OC for that tho) and, believe it or not, the camera can be fixed

I actually like the cartoonish heroism of NwN1 characters more than the mopey look of NwN2 animations

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

kevL wrote...
I actually like the cartoonish heroism of NwN1 characters more than the mopey look of NwN2 animations

I miss the NWN goblins most of all, they were just adorably pathetic with a certain sort of non-chalance about their whole mook lot in life.  The NWN2 goblins are just these crooked-back cretins with bad haircuts. 

As for the campaigns, I made it through all of NWN/SOU/HOU, but never got more than a third of the way through the NWN2 OC, 'cause building new mods is just so much more interesting for me.  NWN, with it's graph-paper areas, is just one big breezy dungeon crawl, a lot of lighthearted fun.  But the potential of the NWN2 toolset is just so vast (and trecherous), that I can't keep away from it for long. 

[Tchos]

DannJ wrote...
Sadly, that's true of many of the older games. At the time they seemed cutting-edge, but once you've played a more recent game with much better sound and graphics, it pretty much ruins the older games for you. No matter how engaging their stories or game play might be, us humans are at heart superficial creatures who *do* judge books by their covers.

Well, your mileage may vary on that, of course.  I just played such low-rez pixel-fests such as the first Elder Scrolls game last month for the first time, and never tried the Infinity Engine games until around 3 years ago.  Before that, I preferred pretty games like Bioshock, but my eyes have been opened.

[Dann-J]

I have to confess to re-installing the original Diablo not too long ago. The graphics are shockingly awful, but the nostalgia element helps compensate for that. It's best played for short periods of time though, to spare your eyes and brain from the strain. Modern high-resolution monitors really make the pixellation jump out at you. Old low-resolution CRTs tended to blur things slightly, like an unintentional anti-aliasing.

I love the soundtrack for Diablo as well. Real people playing real instruments beats synthesised rubbish any day. Diablo and The Witcher are probably the only games where I've not turned the background music off.

[Morbane]

always opinions - but actually what some opinions dont consider is that expressing them amongst an identified and well known group of those who believe otherwise - something there but i cant put my finger on it.

but back on topic - i have recently started replaying Pool of Radiance with dosbox - cant beat that hexagonal tactic with defined ranges and turn based play - if graphics and story dont meet someones standards - get a p&p game going - nothing is higher resolution than imagination and sitting with a group of geeks making their way through nothing more than words and some visual aids.

I guess that is why there is such a strong builder community these days - lets face it - these games weaken our minds - they detract from our intellect by depriving us of the greatest capacity known to all people - imagination.

Modifié par Morbane, 02 décembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[Tchos]

Morbane wrote...
but back on topic - i have recently started replaying Pool of Radiance with dosbox - cant beat that hexagonal tactic with defined ranges and turn based play

Me too!  I have a game of that in progress, as well as Gateway to the Savage Frontier.  I even made a new cover image for it, for my game explorer.  Great games.  Full party control and party creation. 

[Morbane]

Tchos wrote...

Morbane wrote...
but back on topic - i have recently started replaying Pool of Radiance with dosbox - cant beat that hexagonal tactic with defined ranges and turn based play

Me too!  I have a game of that in progress, as well as Gateway to the Savage Frontier.  I even made a new cover image for it, for my game explorer.  Great games.  Full party control and party creation. 

Ya even though there are three (3) colors of choice for arms/body/legs i like too keep the colors simple so i can quickly identify my characters - it also helps to make weapon choices more obvious with contrasting colors to the outfits

gotta admit - folks like MReider even have their forum avatar as a GoldBox Series character! GoldBox: thats where it all started

 lets not forget FRUA!!

Modifié par Morbane, 03 décembre 2013 - 02:40 .

[Tchos]

Ah, this is getting way off topic, but I have to admit that the version of Pool of Radiance that I'm playing is the FRUA conversion (Ray Dyer's "Game39: Pool of Radiance"), so I get the FRUA character icons and other improvements, at the inexpensive cost of losing the character face portraits.    I had never played any Gold Box games until early 2012.

[Morbane]

Tchos wrote...

Ah, this is getting way off topic, but I have to admit that the version of Pool of Radiance that I'm playing is the FRUA conversion (Ray Dyer's "Game39: Pool of Radiance"), so I get the FRUA character icons and other improvements, at the inexpensive cost of losing the character face portraits.    I had never played any Gold Box games until early 2012.

well as opinions go - i thought the main topic was disappointing 

but hey - i was playing GoldBox games in 1989 on a commodore 64 

[Eternal Phoenix]

DannJ wrote...

NWN2 might lack a certain amount of substance, but once you've seen the improved models it's hard to go back to NWN. Most of the creature and player models in NWN were just awful. Then again, The Witcher did the same to NWN2 for me.

Sadly, that's true of many of the older games. At the time they seemed cutting-edge, but once you've played a more recent game with much better sound and graphics, it pretty much ruins the older games for you. No matter how engaging their stories or game play might be, us humans are at heart superficial creatures who *do* judge books by their covers.

The increasing size and resolution of monitors probably contributes as well. The original Baldur's Gate didn't seem too bad on a 640x480 CRT monitor (or at least, no worse than anything else). But playing it on a 1440x900 monitor (or even bigger) either makes it look like a postage stamp, or like Mr Blocky goes to Lego Land if you install the patch that allows you to increase the window size.

True but NWN mods and overrides such as Project Q really do miracles for the overall look of the game. 

[Morbane]

hey EJiD

those screenies look just wow

nothing like the nwn1 oc i remember

[-Semper-]

Elton John is dead wrote...

True but NWN mods and overrides such as Project Q really do miracles for the overall look of the game.

graphics doesn't matter - the gameplay's still subpar. btw the clay golem from your first picture is a port from nwn2.

[kevL]

test

560x248http://imageshack.us/a/img829/1544/nwn2ss04281213595212808.jpg[/img]

Modifié par kevL, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:23 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

-Semper- wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

True but NWN mods and overrides such as Project Q really do miracles for the overall look of the game.

graphics doesn't matter - the gameplay's still subpar. btw the clay golem from your first picture is a port from nwn2.

The gameplay was subpar in NWN2 (for me it just felt buggish and was way easier too thanks to the help of a bigger party) and I'm aware the clay golem is a port just like the KoTOR heads that are ported from Knights of the old Republic.

I was simply replying to the quote about NWN2 having better graphics. With mods and overrides the graphics for NWN are greatly improved.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 05 décembre 2013 - 03:51 .

[Tchos]

How about a mod that gives you full party control?

[I_Raps]

Tchos wrote...

How about a mod that gives you full party control?

I've kind of lost the thread of conversation, but if you mean using a party of your own characters in NWN, that's easy. There has long been the OHS Henchman System by Hall of Famer OldMansBeard, one of the best game mods ever.

 OHS

Modifié par I_Raps, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:30 .

[Tchos]

It doesn't particularly matter if they're player-created characters or recruited companions -- just that I can switch to each of the characters' perspectives at will (possessing them) to control their actions directly. From its description, I can't tell if the mod you linked does that.

[-Semper-]

Elton John is dead wrote...

The gameplay was subpar in NWN2 (for me it just felt buggish and was way easier too thanks to the help of a bigger party)

actually your argument is invalid. it doesn't really matter how you personally liked it. when we're talking about dnd in a crpg environment it's all about a party, tactical combat and the controls of the members, and nwn lacks in all of them. the party system is very weak and underdeveloped - it's just the pc and two ai controlled henchmen. this results in a very limited tactical gameplay department. you have to create a magic wielder as your pc if you don't want the dumb ai handle your spells. there's no way around. and please, don't get me started about the cluster****ed fights in nwn. controlling only your pc was such a stupid decision, but that's what you get when a feature was implemented literally days before release. while we are at it i wouldn't go that far calling a three person squad a party.

in nwn2 you're able to control six party members individually and create four of them personally. that's the biggest difference twixt the two games, besides that they're very similar - both in sp and mp. i am strictly talking about vanilla products with the expansions included.

while nwn2 got the crpg feeling right, nwn will be the handicapped brother to all eternity.

Modifié par -Semper-, 05 décembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[Arkalezth]

It may seem like a tiny and irrelevant detail, but the main thing I miss in NWN1 (I still play modules from time to time) is having to click on every enemy. I can target them with the keyboard in NWN2, and that's much more convenient to me.

I don't know why you feel NWN2 to be buggy. I've heard it was so at the beginning, but not nowadays.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 05 décembre 2013 - 11:59 .