140 réponses à ce sujet

[kamal_]

Both games are good, and the combined community is not large enough to make arguing about them worth anything. Are there nwn1 things I'd like to have in 2, you bet. Are there nwn2 things I'd like to have in 1, you bet.

[Dann-J]

Get off that fence, before you break it.

At least there's one thing we all agree on - both are better than the more recent Neverwinter MMORPG.

[Eternal Phoenix]

-Semper- wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

The gameplay was subpar in NWN2 (for me it just felt buggish and was way easier too thanks to the help of a bigger party)

actually your argument is invalid. it doesn't really matter how you personally liked it. when we're talking about dnd in a crpg environment it's all about a party, tactical combat and the controls of the members, and nwn lacks in all of them. the party system is very weak and underdeveloped - it's just the pc and two ai controlled henchmen. this results in a very limited tactical gameplay department. you have to create a magic wielder as your pc if you don't want the dumb ai handle your spells. there's no way around. and please, don't get me started about the cluster****ed fights in nwn. controlling only your pc was such a stupid decision, but that's what you get when a feature was implemented literally days before release. while we are at it i wouldn't go that far calling a three person squad a party.

in nwn2 you're able to control six party members individually and create four of them personally. that's the biggest difference twixt the two games, besides that they're very similar - both in sp and mp. i am strictly talking about vanilla products with the expansions included.

while nwn2 got the crpg feeling right, nwn will be the handicapped brother to all eternity.

NWN2 simply gave a party but that doesn't mean the combat encounters were executed right. The combat encounters in the original were far more challenging, varied and required tactics. In NWN2? Not so much. It's easy to go through the game with one party member.

It didn't have the same emphasis really in gameplay on party as both Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins. Therefore comparing it to them in that department, it just didn't match up in what it was attempting to achieve.

NWN1 would have benefited from having a proper party system and that's one if its biggest flaws but the encounters were far more varied as opposed to the ones of NWN2 where many are just thrown into your face.

[Dann-J]

That's certainly true of the cake-walk OC, but the expansions were greatly improved.

There were encounters in MotB and SoZ that couldn't be solved by a single tank melee fighter running blindly at enemies and hacking away (which was a perfectly good tactic for most of the OC).

[Tchos]

Indeed. Judging either game by their first campaigns would be a mistake.

[Eternal Phoenix]

True, true but my mistake is that I only picked up the individual campaign and not the complete NWN2 edition. I'll have to buy the expansions individually though one day although I hear they're all mixed bags.

[Arkalezth]

Even if you played the expansions, that's still a small part of what the games offer. With all the available modules and PWs made by the community, I wouldn't like them any less if there were no official campaigns at all.

BTW, graphics in NWN1 can be improved, but if you're just comparing them to NWN2's OC... Well, I've seen way better.

[andysks]

DannJ wrote...

Get off that fence, before you break it.

At least there's one thing we all agree on - both are better than the more recent Neverwinter MMORPG.

The Abomination of cRPGs !

EJD, try the MotB. I won't get into detail about which game I consider better and so on, I'm just saying, play MotB .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Arkalezth wrote...

Even if you played the expansions, that's still a small part of what the games offer. With all the available modules and PWs made by the community, I wouldn't like them any less if there were no official campaigns at all.

BTW, graphics in NWN1 can be improved, but if you're just comparing them to NWN2's OC... Well, I've seen way better.

Obviously. Both NWN1 and 2 are amazing here.

It's a shame Dragon Age: Origins never had the same modding community despite releasing with a capable toolset.

[Tchos]

Elton John is dead wrote...
It's a shame Dragon Age: Origins never had the same modding community despite releasing with a capable toolset.

Not really.  That's where I came from.  It's better here.

[Morbane]

Tchos wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
It's a shame Dragon Age: Origins never had the same modding community despite releasing with a capable toolset.

Not really.  That's where I came from.  It's better here.

at the release of DA:O i was really excited about the promoted release of the toolset

unfortunately all of the stock resources didnt add up to .25 of NWN

and the toolset was just bland

i was hoping to migrate but instead i realised i had a great place right here

Modifié par Morbane, 07 décembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[Shallina]

DAO toolset is great, DAO game is great, but it has less feature than NWN2/NWN1, but it runs well.

I hope one day we ll get somethng that run as well as DAO with all NWN2 feature in a single toolset.

[Morbane]

Shallina wrote...

DAO toolset is great, DAO game is great, but it has less feature than NWN2/NWN1, but it runs well.

I hope one day we ll get somethng that run as well as DAO with all NWN2 feature in a single toolset.

agree 

with a next generation graphics engine to fill the barrel 

in a true rp dynamic - is a must - not like da2 

[BartjeD]

NWN1 was much more polished. Bioware fixed almost all of the bugs.

But NWN2 is much prettier (all around) and its engine is more powerful. It simply allows you to do more, to the point where you (yourself) might actually fix many of its bugs.

I also liked the stories of NWN2 muuuuch better. I didn't think the Original Campaign in NWN2 was bad at all. Its just the bugs that that come with the game that mar its polish.

If the NWN1 were to give up the game for NWN2 I believe there is no telling what new custom content and modules we might see. There is a lot of potential in NWN2 yet. The same isn't true for NWN1 in my experience.

So I suppose the answer to your position is that NWN2 is only as disappointing as the effort you put into your modules, content and persistent worlds. If you can spare the time its a truly epic game which you can customize far more than NWN version 1.

But I grant you that content for NWN2 can take longer to develop. Areas require much more attention, and GUI work can be a pain until you understand what you're doing.

Modifié par BartjeD, 25 décembre 2013 - 08:12 .

[kevL]

great post, Bart


that's the limit of my gregariousness this Christmas.

[Luminus]

I once made a list of 50 reasons why NwN2 is better than NwN1. I could post it here if people care to check it out.

Though, to be fair, both games have their merits and flaws. Though NwN2 has more good stuff that I care about.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

While we're rehashing old arguments, anyone have any idea how well the typical new cheap computer handles NWN2? I know a big problem way back in 2006 was that NWN2 require a machine with a dedicated 3D video card, so more casual players with more common machines had to stick to NWN. Will a new integrated chip play NWN2?

[Arkalezth]

I don't know if this answers your question, but my computer is 5 years old and handles it well.

[Tchos]

Luminus wrote...
I once made a list of 50 reasons why NwN2 is better than NwN1. I could post it here if people care to check it out.

I'd be interested to check it out.    I've seen posts where people made lists of the opposite sentiment, so it's only fair.

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

I don't know if this answers your question, but my computer is 5 years old and handles it well.

same,

only thing is, if I see a 2nd-hand gtx460 that'd shine the cat's behind... (not sure if they even fit into my small-form case tho)

[Dann-J]

Luminus wrote...

I once made a list of 50 reasons why NwN2 is better than NwN1. I could post it here if people care to check it out.

"Some guys at M.I.T. are sending us reasons why Captain Picard is better than Captain Kirk."

"Hah! They're out of their minds!"

[Tchos]

I don't get it.  Captain Picard is better than Captain Kirk.

*ducks* 

[Luminus]

Tchos wrote...
I'd be interested to check it out.    I've seen posts where people made lists of the opposite sentiment, so it's only fair.

Here it goes:

1. Quickcast. Click F, select spell, select target. No need to put it in a quickslot or use radial.
2. Controllable Companions. One of the main reasons to go with NwN2.
3. Real Crafting (closer to PnP). Molds/Essences/Recipes/Crafting Feats.
4. Strategy Mode. Gives you an Infinity Engine gameplay.
5. No Inventory Tetris. Like in the Infinity Engine games.
6. Sort button. Even if you had Inventory Tetris, this sorts everything by category.
7. Autodownloader for PWs. Click on a server and you get everything you need.
8. Fluid storyline, no gathering stuff to get to next Chapter, repeat. It felt so tedious in the NwN1 OC.
9. Mask of the Betrayer. Amazing storyline, nothing close to Nwn. Many people compare it to Planescape Torment.
10. Storm of Zehir. Hardcore Campaign. No respawning or Stone of Recall. Here you survive, the hardcore way.
11. World Map for fast travel. Click on a location and you go there.
12. Overland Map. Don't like the World Map? Now there's the interactive map and there are skill checks too.
13. Party Creation. Create your full party from scratch.
14. More races. Gray Orcs, Yuan-ti Purebloods.
15. Subraces. (Can be combined with the above) Drow, Wild Elves, Tieflings, Planetouched, Duergar etc.
16. More Base classes. Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Swashbuckler.
17. More prestige classes. Duelist, Eldritch Knight, Red Wizard, Doomguide, Stormlord, Arcane Trickster etc.
18. Real spellcasting classes. Not just slots. Here spellcasting PrCs actually advance spellcasting and caster levels.
19. Terrain creator. No external tile based areas. You can paint the area as you wish to make it unique.
20. Behavior tweaking. You can have them do or don't do various stuff. Tony K's AI improves it further.
21. No body part clipping. Seamless bodies. Armors don't look like Legos with various seperate parts.
22. More voice sets. In addition to the ones in NwN1.
23. Real Magic Bags/ of Holding. Each Bag of Holding can have, what, around 100 DIFFERENT items inside?
24. Personal keep. You have your personal castle and stronghold. Along with merchants.
25. 10x12 Quickslots. NwN1 had 36? Here you have 120. More than you will ever need.
26. Even if you don't use all 120 slots, you have four bars at the same time on your screen, they're transparent also.
27. Draggable Windows. Drag the various windows or the log to make them however you like.
28. Easy to customize interface. Don't like the interface? Thank Tchos for improving it for large resolutions.
29. Easier to set abilities on Quickslots. Go to Skills/Feats and just drag them. No need to search in Radial.
30. Much easier to create custom content. Kaedrin's Pack/Reeron's and various PWs are grateful.
31. Custom classes/races require no injecting in modules like PRC. Just throw in override with multiple folders.
32. My Documents default folder. Harder to screw up or install stuff. If you reinstall, it all stays there.
33. Modes are in Modebar. Easier to activate/deactivate. Click for Power Attack or Defensive Casting.
34. Modes don't reset after moving. Can stay on. No need to reactive Flurry every single time for example.
35. Toggleable Low/Darkvision. Self-explanatory.
36. Lipsyncing. In NwN1, characters constantly moved their heads up and down as if they were having a seizure.
37. Better/More detailed character creation. More, more, more. Races/Classes/Feats/Colors/Hair
38. Warlock class. Especially the mixing of Essences and Shapes. People on hardcore PWs, LOVE this class.
39. All conversation skills supported in first campaign. In the NwN1 OC, Bluff and Intimidate were basically useless.
40. Cloaks supported from the beginning. And they move nicely too.
41. Visible boots/gloves. If you equip gloves or boots, you can see them.
42. Face visible with helmet. No more "Circlets" of Intelligence that are fullface helmets.
43. Better animations in general. Especially the female ones. And especially the Monk animations.
44. Real hands with visible fingers. Only possible with a mod in NwN1, still stiff fingers.
45. Eyes that move and blink.
46. Icewind Dale/Baldur's Gate remakes made possible. And both have been released.
47. Every race/subrace looks different. Not just different colors or effects.
48. More customization options in Options. Especially for the Gameplay Modes.
49. Campaign Selector instead of installing multiple modules. Nice and tidy, not needing multiple parts.
50. Sorted Feats on level up by category. Only downside is that the Focus etc Feats don't have their own sub-menu.

Some are pretty minor, yes. And I can probably think of more reasons as well.
NwN1 has many things that it does better than NwN2 but for me, I prefer the NwN2 package deal, even if it's not perfect.

Modifié par Luminus, 10 janvier 2014 - 01:47 .

[Dann-J]

NWN had a couple of cool features I'd like to see in NWN2.

- Red Dragon Disciples grew wings at level 9
- Pale Masters got a skeletal arm at level 6

NWN also seems to have had a wider selection of wings and tails for player characters. I've often looked upon the non-functional legacy entries in the NWN2 2DAs with a sense of longing. Not that I can think of a good reason to include creatures or NPCs with butterfly wings and bone tails in a module.

[Luminus]

DannJ wrote...

NWN had a couple of cool features I'd like to see in NWN2.

- Red Dragon Disciples grew wings at level 9
- Pale Masters got a skeletal arm at level 6

NWN also seems to have had a wider selection of wings and tails for player characters. I've often looked upon the non-functional legacy entries in the NWN2 2DAs with a sense of longing. Not that I can think of a good reason to include creatures or NPCs with butterfly wings and bone tails in a module.

Thing is, RDDs wings were totally useless and disappeared when you equipped a Cloak. (Might be wrong on that)
You can still get that with an editor or downloading a mod.

Same with the Pale Masters arm. Though I like to pretend that it's a well-preserved zombie arm instead. On roleplay PWs it could be a really BAD idea to walk around with a visible skeletal arm.

For the Icewind Dale remake, I soloed with a Half-Celestial (talking about an overpowered race) Cleric and gave him angel wings. Could post screenshots.