140 réponses à ce sujet

[Dann-J]

There's a 'Wings Galore' pack on the vault, but you're still only left with a choice of feathered or leathery wings. With tails, tiefling is the only game in town. Even then, there aren't any NWN2 script functions to dynamically change them in-game (outside of NWNX perhaps). The best work-around is to clone the 'Wings Galore' wings as cloak models - but then changing cloaks removes the wings. There is a VFX solution as well, but those wings don't animate.

The way NWN2 implemented armour and accessories seems to have made it difficult to customise appearances on-the-fly with absolute freedom. Charlie's Item Appearance Changer comes close, but has its limitations. That seems to be the price we payed for much better looking models.

[kevL]

1. Quickcast. Click F, select spell, select target. No need to put it in a quickslot or use radial.

as a buff fanatic, i liked the radial menu more for buffing. The numeric keypad corresponds exactly to the radial directions, and since my buffs' positions didn't change I could lay out my buffs in less than a second apiece. But for combat, yah Quickcast rocks.

other things NwN excelled at:
- audio handling was much better.
- purple highlight for currently equipped weapon loadouts.
- Circle o Death. <- wasn't just a gimmick, it can be used to position your PC *without breaking combat* next to the caster behind the NPC you're fighting, for AoOpportunity. Or just for.. positioning.

[Endurium]

I enjoyed modding the UI in NWN2, in some cases to make it fit 1920x1200 better. Fully patched NWN2 also incorporates, to some extent, TonyK's AI for companions.

Love both games and their expansions though; and played through all of them last year. Great games to have in our collection.

NWN2 OC did suffer a lot from forced party composition, something Obsidian admitted regret for, and addressed mostly in MoTB (my favorite campaign).

Also both games run great for me on Win7 64-bit and modern hardware. Still have the disk-based versions.

[Arkalezth]

I agree with Dann. I don't miss the wings that much, but I do miss the skeletal arm, especially when the feat description specifically states it:

At 6th level, the pale master performs a horrific operation that replaces one of their arms with a supernaturally-animated, undead appendage.

At least they removed the wings from the description.

BTW, I'm currently playing on a RP PW where one of the regulars play a necromancer with a skeletal arm... and it's fine. RDD wings could actually be a good idea on RP PWs. That way you assure that players who take RDD have to RP it properly, instead of it just being a mechanical/(sort of) powerbuilding decision.

I could reply to some of those 50 reasons in the list... but frankly, I already waste enough time in my life.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 14 janvier 2014 - 11:34 .

[nicethugbert]

I do agree that NWN2 was disappointing compared to NWN1. But, my reasons for the disappointment are that I expected more from NWN2. Such expectations are reasonable in a series of products otherwise there is no reason to upgrade to the next product in the series. NWN2 was certainly an improvement over NWN1 in some ways. But, it fell short because:
1) Cutting corners
For instance, although the graphics were an improvement over the stock NWN1 graphics, actions are not fully animated or syncronized or well paced. Much of the time, the characters stand there while a stream of numbers floats over head.

Another example, OEI used an earlier version of NWN1 to build upon rather than using the last version of NWN1. This meant that NWN2 lacked important features that NWN1 had at the end of it's development. That was a massive fail for a product that has a predecessor.

2) Imposition of arbitrary limititations.
The number one feature of the NWN series is the ability of the players to create their own SP or MP modules/campaigns and share them. OEI sabotaged that with arbitrary limits coded into the game engine rather than making nwscript commands to allow us to set our own limits.

As usual, the problem with games is not what the players think it is. The problem is not that the game is not tailor made to you. The problem is the lack of player choice, that oft offered quality that is rarely provided. Player choice is important because it allows people of different tastes to play a game and that is the only way for a game to have a large enough audience to interest a developer. Player choice takes many forms from silly things like the ability to select the underwear your characters wear to a powerful toolset to the dialog lines you select for your character in a module.

[-Semper-]

nicethugbert wrote...

OEI used an earlier version of NWN1 to build upon rather than using the last version of NWN1. This meant that NWN2 lacked important features that NWN1 had at the end of it's development.

nwn2 started development early 2004, while nwn1 received patches till 2006. i doubt that they had time to monitor all the changes. besides, almost all of those features introduced through patches to nwn1 were incorporated later.

nicethugbert wrote...The number one feature of the NWN series is the ability of the players to create their own SP or MP modules/campaigns and share them. OEI sabotaged that with arbitrary limits coded into the game engine rather than making nwscript commands to allow us to set our own limits.

to be fair nwn1 was never concepted to support huge consistant worlds. its purpose was to emulate pnp tables and adventures with 4-8 players max.

Modifié par -Semper-, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:49 .

[Pyce]

NWN melee felt much better to watch with animations for cleave and AoOps. While NWN 2 casting felt much more fluid to me.
Party control wasn't that great in NWN 2. I wish that some day we could see another ToEE combat/party system using 3.5e.

[Arkalezth]

Pyce wrote...

Party control wasn't that great in NWN 2.

What could make party control great? It's pretty much the same as in every other party-based game I've played (except Mass Effect, but you can't control party members entirely there)... I mean, it's rather simple: you control a party member and you do whatever you want with him/her. What more is there to party control?

[Tchos]

Pyce, I think your issue is not with the party control at all, since that particular aspect of the game is the same as it is in ToEE (another game I love). The real issue, I believe, is with the combat system being realtime with pause (just like NWN1, as well as the Infinity Engine games and DA:O) instead of turn-based as in ToEE.

[Luminus]

Pyce wrote...

NWN melee felt much better to watch with animations for cleave and AoOps. While NWN 2 casting felt much more fluid to me.
Party control wasn't that great in NWN 2. I wish that some day we could see another ToEE combat/party system using 3.5e.

The problem with the animations in NwN1, I heard, is that you would lose some attacks now and then because the engine didn't had time to animate all of them.
The only way they could fix that in NwN2 would be to make animations REALLY fast for AoO and Cleave which would look probably stupid.

It wouldn't be a fix, though. The problem is that both games are real-time with pause. In fully turn-based RPGs like ToEE you could fully animate each animation since everything else stops after their round is over.

Personally I like the real-time with pause in the Infinity Engine and NwN games. It's not true to PnP but actually adds a tactical aspect to it.

For example I have dodged AoEs like Fireball by thinking fast, pausing and telling a character to run away from the fireball before it explodes, otherwise only Reflex saves and Evasion could save you.

[Anacronian Stryx]

So long time ago since i player either game but i remember that NWN had much better animations and far far better spell effects compared to NWN2.

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

I always wanted to like this game so bad. Every 6-8 months or so, I re-realize there is a Forgotten Realms RPG out there I have never really touched. This results in " omg! ttime to like it!" type of a feverish drive. I reinstall the game..and proceed to fail to like it once more.

Camera, controls, overall tedium to do ANYTHING defeats me. Every time. Playing this game is not fun.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

There are many things about vanilla NWN2 that I dislike. But most of them were correctable with mods. There is no good reason to play vanilla.

 

Regards

[Arkalezth]

Every time I see a new player complaining about the camera or the controls, I wonder whether they've patched the game and switched to exploration camera mode. Otherwise, I don't know WTF they're talking about. Seriously, I'm not being a fanboy here, but I don't know how the exploration camera or most of the controls could ever be improved.

[Snowdog65]

So long time ago since i player either game but i remember that NWN had much better animations and far far better spell effects compared to NWN2.

 

It still does. I have both installed and have compared them recently fully patched.

 

NWN movement animation matches the terrain. So it characters look like they are moving properly in sync with terrain.

 

NWN2 movement doesn't properly match to the terrain. Characters seem to moonwalk around. It looks like extremely cheap cartoons where two different groups did the terrain and the walking animations and they just superimpose them without syncing.

 

Combat animation is similarly disconnected. I think instead of doing it right,they tried to hide it giant clouds of silly explosive effects. Hit someone with a flaming sword and you are both engulfed in a fireball.

 

NWN2 camera now has similar exploration mode to NWN, but again it is more floaty, less precise than in NWN1. The mouse zooms is particularly broken, scaling faster as you get closer, slower as you get further away (This is backwards to what it should be!).

 

It is theme throughout NWN2 that it is less precise, less connected experience than NWN1.  I could say more but off to work.

[Tchos]

NWN2 movement doesn't properly match to the terrain. Characters seem to moonwalk around. It looks like extremely cheap cartoons where two different groups did the terrain and the walking animations and they just superimpose them without syncing.

There is something wrong with your setup if that's happening to you.  It's not my experience.

[Snowdog65]

There is something wrong with your setup if that's happening to you.  It's not my experience.

 

I don't think so. You are a likely just used to it. It is just slightly off. More noticeable if you play a ton of NWN1 or directly compare them.

[Tchos]

If you see moonwalking in this video, then I'll accept that I'm just used to it.

[Snowdog65]

If you see moonwalking in this video, then I'll accept that I'm just used to it.

 

I don't really see it there either. Nor would I on my computer. In that vid, you can hardly see their feet half the time and they are moving short distances.

 

I notice it most outside, camera zoomed out more moving larger distances. Like walking running around town in the OC tutorial. There is something not quite right, it is kind of like a lip synch issue but with movement. Some people are more sensitive to this than others. NWN2 is slightly disconnected, slightly off. Almost everything in NWN2 is like this. The camera isn't as precise, the combat animations are off, the movement is slightly off.

[Arkalezth]

The moonwalking happens to me occasionally, but that's maybe 1% of the time. Speaking about the camera, IIRC, you can't control all the camera movements with the mouse in NWN1, which is a bit annoying.

 

In the end, some people prefer NWN1, others prefer NWN2 and others may not have a preference. *Shrugs*

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

Graphics (or minor glitches in such) do not concern me in any game I play. As long as the gameplay itself is enjoyable (and not buggy in any way), then I will play the game.

Regarding the original post, I like both games, but have to say that NWN2 offers far more in gameplay to the player in my opinion ... for many of the reasons already posted. I think especially with respect to party control and creating new material. NB: I count the toolset for the game to be a strong point when comparing the two products ... and by comparison, do not count graphic differences between them at all. The ability to mod the GUI is an absolute brilliant addition, even if it is quite hard to do. It gives the potential to add so many new gaming aspects for builders to give their players, that alone is a great difference.

I suppose the bottom line is whether one is comparing the two for the OC "stories" released, or the mechanical or even technical differences. Personally, I do not judge the stories, but I do respect the technical advantages of NWN2 over NWN, and is why (even though I still have NWN installed and still play it ... my wife is having a great time for her first time play through even as I type), I still prefer the tools and opportunities that NWN2 has over its predecessor.

And both these games will always stand heads over others for their ability to design new SP and MP modules for a D&D environment.

Lance.

[Snowdog65]

A:  Graphics (or minor glitches in such) do not concern me in any game I play...

B: ... NWN2 offers far more in gameplay to the player in my opinion ... party control and creating new material. NB: I count the toolset ...

 

 

 

A: Graphics concern me when they represent changes of interaction capability. Like a freely rotatable camera vs a locked isometric like BG. I have an extremely hard time going back to a locked viewpoint. NWN1&2 are somewhat level here.

 

Graphics also concern me when some element get overdone and detract from the experience. NWN2 Giant fireballs that obscure combat when you fight with elemental weapons is a good example of graphics gone wrong.

 

B: Party control I will concede, but it is something that I really don't care for. I hate micromanaging a party. It doesn't mimic the P&P experience for me, that would be individual real people controlling one character and working together. I just want to role play/control my character, not have a tactical group battle simulator. Though I recognize some people are into that.

 

As far as creating new material. As a player it looks like there are a lot more third party modules to play with NWN1 (I have played a large number of good ones) than NWN2. Real playable content that exists, far trumps, theoretical abilities to create content, that never actually happens.

[kamal_]

A: NWN2 Giant fireballs that obscure combat when you fight with elemental weapons is a good example of graphics gone wrong.

These should help with that.

 

Less Obtrusive Spell Buffs

http://nwvault.ign.c...ts.detail&id=12

 

Reduced hit effects:

http://nwvault.ign.c...ts.Detail&id=59

 

Subdued Weapon Visuals:

http://nwvault.ign.c...ts.Detail&id=49

[Arkalezth]

It'd be surprising if the newer game had more content than the older one. But really, who cares about that? More is better, but NWN2 has hundreds of modules. Will you be missing a few hundreds more?

 

I'm not much into micromanaging either, but it's still a pro. The OCs are not what makes these games special and there are better OCs in other games IMO, so I don't even consider them when comparing. But anyway... this is like asking who'd win a fight between Vegeta and Darth Vader.

[Tchos]

Well, I tried once, but I'm not going to bother looking for more video examples to post and see if it contains the thing you hate that I don't experience.  My initial intent was to help fix what sounded like a technical problem.

 

Also, appropos of nothing, I think Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures has more real, playable user-made content than any D&D game ever made.  I understand many people stick with that game for that reason.  Why move on to some other game that has less content?