140 réponses à ce sujet

[Snowdog65]

As for the demos and hacks, NWN2 has two powerful tools that NWN doesn't, an override folder and a customizable GUI.  The hacks aren't really hacks, they're semi-legitimate ways to insert new content into the stock campaigns.  I actually think its quite odd that the community hasn't produced more of these things, especially for the sandbox-styled SoZ.  The demos probably belong in a category all their own (my own tactics demo is stuck into the scripting section instead of the module section), but I don't see how their presence is in anyway detrimental to the NWN2 library.

 

The halting conversations are probably due to the use of lip-flappers, empty sound files that cause NPCs to move their mouths when they talk.  Of couse, NWN did just fine without moving mouths, but some folks like to see the jaw-wagging in NWN2, and that demands a sound file attached to the conversation node, with a set delay of a few seconds.  Cutscenes in NWN2 aren't the most elegant things in the world, but they are a step up from NWN.

 

 

NWN1 does have an override folder. I think it is used in much the same way for things like Tony K's AI, or character class changes, etc...

 

I have continued playing through Conan. I finished the Scythian Pits this weekend. That lip flapper is by far the most annoying thing, doubly so because in the Scythian Pits you are a gladiator and you fight over and over, and repeat the same conversations over and over (even worse there was a bug where Connall would seek me after every rest, and after every fight and repeat the same conversation). It was very frustrating that I  couldn't just click through, but was saddled with delays.  Are there modules that run NPC conversations more like NWN1? Because turning every conversation into a pseudo cut-scene with built in delays, is not an improvement in any way, IMO. 

 

If you really only have text to show me, just do that cleanly and get out of the way. Don't put barriers in place that force me to pause long after I have finished reading. That is just frustrating.

[Snowdog65]

At the time of this post, there are 431 entries under the "NWN2 English modules" category on the Vault. There may be a few more on the Nexus and other sites. Then you're surprised when people say you're trolling.

 

PS: The Vault's rating system is ****.

 

Comparing like to like (hence the term "relatively") when I look at the ranked module lists, I see:

 

NWN 1: 1126

NWN 2:   177

 

The Vault rating system does suck, but again it is relative. It suffers mainly from grade inflation. I doubt more than half of either of those lists is worth playing, (*.50) so cut out the bottom half, next filter out all the game modifications and demos (15%? *.85), now you have:

 

478 vs 75.

 

Now you can finally start looking for a module that suits your interests. Say a Rogue/Stealth modules. This is where that relative lack really shows up. There might only be 5 or 6 Rogue/Stealth modules left in the NWN list, but that would more like 0 or 1 in the NWN 2 list.

 

Compared to NWN 1 there is a  relative lack in available "Modules" for NWN2. It is a fact and it shouldn't be considered trolling.

[Arkalezth]

*Sighs* Just don't play. I doubt anyone will care.

[olnorton]

I like both game equally, & when I like a module I keep it on my hard drive so I can play it again.

Just counting them now, I have 12 modules from each game saved. (From the >100 I have downloaded)

NWN1 has A Dance With Rogues, the only module I have played more than the Bioware stuff.

I haven't played any NWN2 modules more than the OC or MOTB, & only 3 of the ones I have saved are on that top 11 list Tchos posted in #85.

[Tchos]

only 3 of the ones I have saved are on that top 11 list Tchos posted in #85.

 

I myself have only yet had time to play one of the modules on that particular list, but I've been making my selections from a larger body of works, including Golden Dragon candidates, well-reviewed modules, personally-recommended modules, and ones that just caught my eye.  I've played somewhere around 25 modules, judging from my notes, reviews, and personal ratings, out of the ~326 I've downloaded (counting only standalone adventure modules, and with demos/trainers filtered out).

[olnorton]

I've played them all except Fallen House Celofraie, so I'm downloading that one now.

Oh & I never finished the Danaan one, there was too much backtracking over empty maps.

[Luminus]

(Oh, god. First time posting in the new Bioware forum and I'm already disappointed. I hate post counts which only purpose is to say "look at my post count. I'm so more active, awesome and more experienced than you, noob". Basically the forum e-peen.
And freaking like buttons... *Facepalms*)

To get on topic:

NWN1 does have an override folder. I think it is used in much the same way for things like Tony K's AI, or character class changes, etc...

NwN2 has a separate Override folder in the Documents folders.
Also NwN2 can read subfolders which means you can keep everything tidy.
Right now, I have no idea what mods I have thrown into the Override folder of NwN1 because it's a big mess of files in there.
I need to keep a seperate Override folder with all my mods to keep them tidy.

Also I suggest you check my 50 Reasons Why NwN2 is Better post a few pages ago.

[I_Raps]

... topic ...

 

 

I_Raps liked this post. 

[kevL]

cascade??

 

no.

[rjshae]

Funny, I still see poor animations in most state of the art games. It's nothing particularly unique to NWN1/2, which are old dogs by comparison. But that's not really the point of still supporting these games; its all about the modding toolsets, party-based CRPG, and the D&D rules implementation.

[Naeryna]

Here it goes:

1. Quickcast. Click F, select spell, select target. No need to put it in a quickslot or use radial.
2. Controllable Companions. One of the main reasons to go with NwN2.
3. Real Crafting (closer to PnP). Molds/Essences/Recipes/Crafting Feats.
4. Strategy Mode. Gives you an Infinity Engine gameplay.
5. No Inventory Tetris. Like in the Infinity Engine games.
6. Sort button. Even if you had Inventory Tetris, this sorts everything by category.
7. Autodownloader for PWs. Click on a server and you get everything you need.
8. Fluid storyline, no gathering stuff to get to next Chapter, repeat. It felt so tedious in the NwN1 OC.
9. Mask of the Betrayer. Amazing storyline, nothing close to Nwn. Many people compare it to Planescape Torment.
10. Storm of Zehir. Hardcore Campaign. No respawning or Stone of Recall. Here you survive, the hardcore way.
11. World Map for fast travel. Click on a location and you go there.
12. Overland Map. Don't like the World Map? Now there's the interactive map and there are skill checks too.
13. Party Creation. Create your full party from scratch.
14. More races. Gray Orcs, Yuan-ti Purebloods.
15. Subraces. (Can be combined with the above) Drow, Wild Elves, Tieflings, Planetouched, Duergar etc.
16. More Base classes. Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Swashbuckler.
17. More prestige classes. Duelist, Eldritch Knight, Red Wizard, Doomguide, Stormlord, Arcane Trickster etc.
18. Real spellcasting classes. Not just slots. Here spellcasting PrCs actually advance spellcasting and caster levels.
19. Terrain creator. No external tile based areas. You can paint the area as you wish to make it unique.
20. Behavior tweaking. You can have them do or don't do various stuff. Tony K's AI improves it further.
21. No body part clipping. Seamless bodies. Armors don't look like Legos with various seperate parts.
22. More voice sets. In addition to the ones in NwN1.
23. Real Magic Bags/ of Holding. Each Bag of Holding can have, what, around 100 DIFFERENT items inside?
24. Personal keep. You have your personal castle and stronghold. Along with merchants.
25. 10x12 Quickslots. NwN1 had 36? Here you have 120. More than you will ever need.
26. Even if you don't use all 120 slots, you have four bars at the same time on your screen, they're transparent also.
27. Draggable Windows. Drag the various windows or the log to make them however you like.
28. Easy to customize interface. Don't like the interface? Thank Tchos for improving it for large resolutions.
29. Easier to set abilities on Quickslots. Go to Skills/Feats and just drag them. No need to search in Radial.
30. Much easier to create custom content. Kaedrin's Pack/Reeron's and various PWs are grateful.
31. Custom classes/races require no injecting in modules like PRC. Just throw in override with multiple folders.
32. My Documents default folder. Harder to screw up or install stuff. If you reinstall, it all stays there.
33. Modes are in Modebar. Easier to activate/deactivate. Click for Power Attack or Defensive Casting.
34. Modes don't reset after moving. Can stay on. No need to reactive Flurry every single time for example.
35. Toggleable Low/Darkvision. Self-explanatory.
36. Lipsyncing. In NwN1, characters constantly moved their heads up and down as if they were having a seizure.
37. Better/More detailed character creation. More, more, more. Races/Classes/Feats/Colors/Hair
38. Warlock class. Especially the mixing of Essences and Shapes. People on hardcore PWs, LOVE this class.
39. All conversation skills supported in first campaign. In the NwN1 OC, Bluff and Intimidate were basically useless.
40. Cloaks supported from the beginning. And they move nicely too.
41. Visible boots/gloves. If you equip gloves or boots, you can see them.
42. Face visible with helmet. No more "Circlets" of Intelligence that are fullface helmets.
43. Better animations in general. Especially the female ones. And especially the Monk animations.
44. Real hands with visible fingers. Only possible with a mod in NwN1, still stiff fingers.
45. Eyes that move and blink.
46. Icewind Dale/Baldur's Gate remakes made possible. And both have been released.
47. Every race/subrace looks different. Not just different colors or effects.
48. More customization options in Options. Especially for the Gameplay Modes.
49. Campaign Selector instead of installing multiple modules. Nice and tidy, not needing multiple parts.
50. Sorted Feats on level up by category. Only downside is that the Focus etc Feats don't have their own sub-menu.

Some are pretty minor, yes. And I can probably think of more reasons as well.
NwN1 has many things that it does better than NwN2 but for me, I prefer the NwN2 package deal, even if it's not perfect.

 

I agree with everything.

[AncientWolfgr]

Comparing like to like (hence the term "relatively") when I look at the ranked module lists, I see:

 

NWN 1: 1126

NWN 2:   177

 

The Vault rating system does suck, but again it is relative. It suffers mainly from grade inflation. I doubt more than half of either of those lists is worth playing, (*.50) so cut out the bottom half, next filter out all the game modifications and demos (15%? *.85), now you have:

 

478 vs 75.

 

Now you can finally start looking for a module that suits your interests. Say a Rogue/Stealth modules. This is where that relative lack really shows up. There might only be 5 or 6 Rogue/Stealth modules left in the NWN list, but that would more like 0 or 1 in the NWN 2 list.

 

Compared to NWN 1 there is a  relative lack in available "Modules" for NWN2. It is a fact and it shouldn't be considered trolling.

 

1000+ mods of legos still doesnt equal 1 erector set.

[I_Raps]

An impressive list by Luminus, there;  but for the sake of full transparency I think we should point out the MAJOR shortcoming of NWN2 - nowhere near as many adversaries in the toolkit.  And you can add nowhere near as many armors, nowhere near as many helmets, and while there are more heads that's because there are heads for more races;  iirc each race has fewer heads.  You can simplify the whole thing to "nowhere near as many models to work with."  

 

And you can add the huge design time and skills needed to implement all that beautiful terrain as another shortcoming.

 

 

This goes to what rjshae said above:

 

Funny, I still see poor animations in most state of the art games. It's nothing particularly unique to NWN1/2, which are old dogs by comparison. 

 

I think the 800 lb. gorilla is that the ability of our machines to show incredible images has surpassed the ability of our humans to make them (in any kind of reasonable time).  And this isn't going to change until the next generation of graphics - when we have robots creating the models.

[Dann-J]

A good looking model can be spoiled by clumsy animations though. Given the motion capture technology available today (and indeed for decades previously), there really isn't much excuse for non-realistic animations. Unless of course you're dealing with fantasy creatures that have no living analogues.

[Tchos]

I prefer a skilled animator's work over motion capture any day.

[Dann-J]

I prefer a skilled animator's work over motion capture any day.

 

The emphasis being on the word 'skilled' though. In the absence of any decent animation skills, motion capture is the way to go.

[Tchos]

Yes, the emphasis is there, but it's really not in any short supply.  I've seen so much incredible talent showcased on the 11 Second Club -- a lot of skilled out-of-work animators entering these contests for free, whose work I think is far superior for 3D models than the often clipping and jerky motion capture, and I'd love to see them get hired to animate for games.

[WebShaman]

Time to address this list -

1. Quickcast. Click F, select spell, select target. No need to put it in a quickslot or use radial.

 

 True.

 

  Except that it means taking an extra "step" in the selection process, something that using a quickslot for is better, quicker, and more convienent.

  An interesting feature that I abandoned after finding out that it is just...clunky.  I use my Logitech Keyboard G keys to do much quicker and better spellcasting, and other types of bindings, to be honest.

2. Controllable Companions. One of the main reasons to go with NwN2.

 

 This is a good comparison, that NWN only has a work-around for.  It is possible to control companions, but one has to go through a tedious process of saving, leave game, replace main char with companion, load save process ala OHS.

3. Real Crafting (closer to PnP). Molds/Essences/Recipes/Crafting Feats.

 

 A non-issue that the PRC fixes.  False.

4. Strategy Mode. Gives you an Infinity Engine gameplay.

 

 A camera choice that one also has in NWN with the Camera Hack.  False.

5. No Inventory Tetris. Like in the Infinity Engine games.

 

 This is true.

6. Sort button. Even if you had Inventory Tetris, this sorts everything by category.

 

  Also true.

7. Autodownloader for PWs. Click on a server and you get everything you need.

 

  A very good and necessary addition.  True.

8. Fluid storyline, no gathering stuff to get to next Chapter, repeat. It felt so tedious in the NwN1 OC.

 

 "Fluid" is equivalent to railroading.  Subjective.  What is tedious to one, is great to another.  What is true here is basically "no gathering of many things to get to next Chapter" - but you have to take in certain party members or no advancement, etc.

9. Mask of the Betrayer. Amazing storyline, nothing close to Nwn. Many people compare it to Planescape Torment.

 

 We get into a real beef here.  I absolutely HATED MotB!!!!  The Soul thing was an abhorent, forced mechanical monstrosity that basically made  the game for me unplayable as is.  I had to cut it out. Much of the storyline just made me cringe.  The Barrel o Lootz and absolutely ridiculous Epic Gnolls and Co. broke immersion so badly, it was a joke!  Subjective and false.  NWN has many "amazing Storyline" type adventures.

10. Storm of Zehir. Hardcore Campaign. No respawning or Stone of Recall. Here you survive, the hardcore way.

 

 SoZ is my favorite part of NWN2.  However, this is not a "reason" but just a plug.  So false.  I can say "NWN had HotU blah blah blah"...

11. World Map for fast travel. Click on a location and you go there.

 

 NWN has this as well.  See Danger at Daggerford.  False.

12. Overland Map. Don't like the World Map? Now there's the interactive map and there are skill checks too.

 

 NWN can do this as well.  False.

13. Party Creation. Create your full party from scratch.

 

 NWN can do this as well with the OHS.  False.

14. More races. Gray Orcs, Yuan-ti Purebloods.

 

 PRC introduces more races than one can shake a stick at.  False.

15. Subraces. (Can be combined with the above) Drow, Wild Elves, Tieflings, Planetouched, Duergar etc.

 

 PRC introduces subraces as well as some other scripted haks.  False.

16. More Base classes. Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Swashbuckler.

 

 PRC introduces more base classes as well.  False.

17. More prestige classes. Duelist, Eldritch Knight, Red Wizard, Doomguide, Stormlord, Arcane Trickster etc.

 

 PRC introduces more prestige classes.  False.

18. Real spellcasting classes. Not just slots. Here spellcasting PrCs actually advance spellcasting and caster levels.

 

 PRC introduces real spellcasting classes, not just slots.  Here specasting PrCs actually advance spellcasting and caster levels.  False.

19. Terrain creator. No external tile based areas. You can paint the area as you wish to make it unique.

 

 True. 

20. Behavior tweaking. You can have them do or don't do various stuff. Tony K's AI improves it further.

 

 One has this as well with Tony K's AI for NWN (where he started).  False.

21. No body part clipping. Seamless bodies. Armors don't look like Legos with various seperate parts.

 

 No body part clipping, but major clipping issues with some armor and cloaks, etc.  I would say this is true, however.

22. More voice sets. In addition to the ones in NwN1.

 

 They can be added to NWN, and there are haks and overrides for NWN that include all the voices from the game.  Not true.

23. Real Magic Bags/ of Holding. Each Bag of Holding can have, what, around 100 DIFFERENT items inside?

 

 Ok, true, but with multiple bags of Holding, inventory is basically a "meh".

24. Personal keep. You have your personal castle and stronghold. Along with merchants.

 

 True. 

25. 10x12 Quickslots. NwN1 had 36? Here you have 120. More than you will ever need.

 

 True.

26. Even if you don't use all 120 slots, you have four bars at the same time on your screen, they're transparent also.

 

 True.  All these are parts of the UI improvements.  So I would reduce them to ONE (1) improvement.

27. Draggable Windows. Drag the various windows or the log to make them however you like.

 

 See above.

28. Easy to customize interface. Don't like the interface? Thank Tchos for improving it for large resolutions.

 

 NWN has a customizable interface to a degree.  False.

29. Easier to set abilities on Quickslots. Go to Skills/Feats and just drag them. No need to search in Radial.

 

 True.

30. Much easier to create custom content. Kaedrin's Pack/Reeron's and various PWs are grateful.

 

 Blatently subjective and IMHO false.  Custom Content is much easier to create for NWN, coming from a CC perspective.

31. Custom classes/races require no injecting in modules like PRC. Just throw in override with multiple folders.

 

 This is true.  However, one can add the PRC to the base of NWN itself, removing the need to add it again for each mod, etc.

32. My Documents default folder. Harder to screw up or install stuff. If you reinstall, it all stays there.

 

 True.

33. Modes are in Modebar. Easier to activate/deactivate. Click for Power Attack or Defensive Casting.

 

 True.

34. Modes don't reset after moving. Can stay on. No need to reactive Flurry every single time for example.

 

 Except that often the AI will reset the Queue when one is unselected/selected, making for the "Yo-yo" effect - really irritating.  However, true.

35. Toggleable Low/Darkvision. Self-explanatory.

 

 True.  It is toggleable.

36. Lipsyncing. In NwN1, characters constantly moved their heads up and down as if they were having a seizure.

 

 True.  I won't get into all the bugs with it here, though.

37. Better/More detailed character creation. More, more, more. Races/Classes/Feats/Colors/Hair

 

 Blatantly false.  Additions to NWN in the CC area far, far outstrip character creation in NWN2.

38. Warlock class. Especially the mixing of Essences and Shapes. People on hardcore PWs, LOVE this class.

 

 Warlock is added with the PRC.

39. All conversation skills supported in first campaign. In the NwN1 OC, Bluff and Intimidate were basically useless.

 

 False.  Useless they were not, just not as useful as in the first OC of NWN2.

40. Cloaks supported from the beginning. And they move nicely too.

 

  First part is true.  I despise NWN2 cloaks, however.  NWN CC cloaks are much better IMHO.

41. Visible boots/gloves. If you equip gloves or boots, you can see them.

 

 Possible to do in NWN - false.

42. Face visible with helmet. No more "Circlets" of Intelligence that are fullface helmets.

 

 Possible in NWN with VFX.  False.

43. Better animations in general. Especially the female ones. And especially the Monk animations.

 

 Blatantly false.  The animations in NWN are much smoother and much better done than those in NWN2.

44. Real hands with visible fingers. Only possible with a mod in NwN1, still stiff fingers.

 

 Since it is possible in NWN, false.  Throw it in override and done.  Thanks Issig!

45. Eyes that move and blink.

 

 True.

46. Icewind Dale/Baldur's Gate remakes made possible. And both have been released.

 

 True.

47. Every race/subrace looks different. Not just different colors or effects.

 

 Blatantly false.  In NWN, every race and subrace can also be different.

48. More customization options in Options. Especially for the Gameplay Modes.

 

True.

49. Campaign Selector instead of installing multiple modules. Nice and tidy, not needing multiple parts.

 

True

50. Sorted Feats on level up by category. Only downside is that the Focus etc Feats don't have their own sub-menu.

 

True, but part of the UI improvements, so it goes in the improved UI catagory.

 

In retrospect, I would say your "50 points" are really only 23.

 

 

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I don't really see the point in a moving target comparison.  You need to either compare the base games themselves as released by the vendor with toolset capabilities, structural flexibility, openness, quality and scope of the official campaigns, or you are always comparing based only on what haks and mods are available in the community.  Both communities are still actively developing so any point of limitation made today may be "false" tomorrow.

 

For instance, the comment that MotB spirit eater mechanism was "abhorrent" is then followed with "I had to cut it out."  Ok, so you modded the game.  The game structure and openness allows for that.  I don't see how that is any different than citing a hak like OHC as a solution. For consistency you would have to say the lack of complete party creation in NWN is abhorrent and you had to correct it with OHC. Or you have to say that the feature of MotB you didn't like is easily remedied by several different solutions available to the community, including my own MotB Makeover.

 

Honestly it isn't NWN vs. NWN2.  Both games are officially dead and only their communities keep them alive.  Play what you want. Be disappointed if you like.  But there is as little point in coming to the NWN2 forums and complaining about NWN2 as there is for a NWN2 fan to go to the NWN forums and complain about NWN limitations, including a community of modders who stubbornly refused to adopt the NWN2 toolset and therefore have restricted what is available for NWN2. Self-fulfilling prophecy bites.

 

Regards

[Luminus]

"Time to address this list -

1. Quickcast. Click F, select spell, select target. No need to put it in a quickslot or use radial.

 

 True.

 

  Except that it means taking an extra "step" in the selection process, something that using a quickslot for is better, quicker, and more convienent.

  An interesting feature that I abandoned after finding out that it is just...clunky.  I use my Logitech Keyboard G keys to do much quicker and better spellcasting, and other types of bindings, to be honest."

Except that you can use both quickslots and the quickcast with NwN2. It's not forcing you to use one or the other.
I played a Sorcerer throughout  SoU and HotU as well the unofficial "sequel" mods.

Having to delete a spell from the quickslots as well adding the metamagic versions you might need each time you learn or unlearn a spell is tedious and creates a clutter because you need to find an empty slot or just delete them and make them more organized.

Also NwN1 uses the F1-12 buttons for the quickslots. Using the 1-9 buttons is more convenient (closer).

Quickcast solved my hands. I never had to put any spells in the quickslots again, everything is organized I only use the quickslots for items or special abilities.

 

"2. Controllable Companions. One of the main reasons to go with NwN2.

 

 This is a good comparison, that NWN only has a work-around for.  It is possible to control companions, but one has to go through a tedious process of saving, leave game, replace main char with companion, load save process ala OHS."

Vanilla NwN1 doesn't have controllable companions. I mean full control. Not possessing workarounds. It's hardcoded unless you give me proof that there's a mod that makes you control companions the same way NwN2 does it.
And I mean: click on portrait/model, take full control.
 

"3. Real Crafting (closer to PnP). Molds/Essences/Recipes/Crafting Feats.

 

 A non-issue that the PRC fixes.  False."

The PRC is a mod. Those don't count. That's like saying that the Icewind Dale games having no companions with stories or dialogue is non-issue since there are NPC mods.
Also the PRC needs to be injected into every single module to make it work and it's size makes the loading much slower plus adds way too many uneeded stuff.
 

"4. Strategy Mode. Gives you an Infinity Engine gameplay.

 

 A camera choice that one also has in NWN with the Camera Hack.  False."

Also a mod. Not sure about the hack, but does it include the option to create selection boxes like in the Infinity Engine games to select multiple companions and them where you want? If not, then it's not the same.
 

5. No Inventory Tetris. Like in the Infinity Engine games.

 

 This is true.

6. Sort button. Even if you had Inventory Tetris, this sorts everything by category.

 

  Also true.

7. Autodownloader for PWs. Click on a server and you get everything you need.

 

  A very good and necessary addition.  True.

"8. Fluid storyline, no gathering stuff to get to next Chapter, repeat. It felt so tedious in the NwN1 OC.

 

 "Fluid" is equivalent to railroading.  Subjective.  What is tedious to one, is great to another.  What is true here is basically "no gathering of many things to get to next Chapter" - but you have to take in certain party members or no advancement, etc."

Gathering 3-4 items, bringing them back and proceeding to the next chapter is tedious, lazy and boring.
(Gather the Waterdhavian creatures, gather the information, gather the words of power)
To me, the NwN1 OC was extremely boring. I agree with the forced companions but don't mind them as much.
 

"9. Mask of the Betrayer. Amazing storyline, nothing close to Nwn. Many people compare it to Planescape Torment.

 

 We get into a real beef here.  I absolutely HATED MotB!!!!  The Soul thing was an abhorent, forced mechanical monstrosity that basically made  the game for me unplayable as is.  I had to cut it out. Much of the storyline just made me cringe.  The Barrel o Lootz and absolutely ridiculous Epic Gnolls and Co. broke immersion so badly, it was a joke!  Subjective and false.  NWN has many "amazing Storyline" type adventures."

I was talking about the general reception from fans. Many, many liked it and heard it was great from multiple sources (friends, forums, reviews).
NwN1 never had something that compared to it. The closest was HotU which is awesome but it's still a dungeon crawl, Diablo-style.
In the end, you were just the average Joe that managed to kill/banish/bind the second most powerful Archdevil of the Nine Hells.

"10. Storm of Zehir. Hardcore Campaign. No respawning or Stone of Recall. Here you survive, the hardcore way.

 

 SoZ is my favorite part of NWN2.  However, this is not a "reason" but just a plug.  So false.  I can say "NWN had HotU blah blah blah"..."

Wrong, by default NwN1 never had anything similar to SoZ. No full party creation, no world-map exploration, PnP rules (no respawning or Relic of the Reaper), no using the various and often useless skills in the wilderness.
 

"11. World Map for fast travel. Click on a location and you go there.

 

 NWN has this as well.  See Danger at Daggerford.  False."

Danger at Daggerford. As in semi-official third party (Oasis Studios not Bioware) mod. NwN1 OC, SoU, HotU never had any kind of World Map
 

"12. Overland Map. Don't like the World Map? Now there's the interactive map and there are skill checks too.

 

 NWN can do this as well.  False."

Not official. Not as intuitive or easy to create an Overland map in there. I think that NwN1 doesn't have mini-models for cities or other objects.
 

13. Party Creation. Create your full party from scratch.

 

 NWN can do this as well with the OHS.  False.

Mod, again. A pretty tedious one also.
 

"14. More races. Gray Orcs, Yuan-ti Purebloods.

 

 PRC introduces more races than one can shake a stick at.  False."

Mod. Also requires installation of the bloated, in my opinion, PRC, into every module and then a third-party tool to even be able to make one.

 

"15. Subraces. (Can be combined with the above) Drow, Wild Elves, Tieflings, Planetouched, Duergar etc.

 

 PRC introduces subraces as well as some other scripted haks.  False."

Mod, once more. Requires the third party tool to create one.
 

"16. More Base classes. Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Swashbuckler.

 

 PRC introduces more base classes as well.  False."

Mod. Also creating spellcasting classes in NwN1 is hardcoded. Can only be made possible by turning them into feats, making for one bloated Feat sheet.
 

"17. More prestige classes. Duelist, Eldritch Knight, Red Wizard, Doomguide, Stormlord, Arcane Trickster etc.

 

 PRC introduces more prestige classes.  False."

Mod. See above.
 

"18. Real spellcasting classes. Not just slots. Here spellcasting PrCs actually advance spellcasting and caster levels.

 

 PRC introduces real spellcasting classes, not just slots.  Here specasting PrCs actually advance spellcasting and caster levels.  False."

Mod once more. Vanilla Pale Master advances only slots. Did they fix that with the PRC? I mean durations and DCs changing.
 

19. Terrain creator. No external tile based areas. You can paint the area as you wish to make it unique.

 

 True. 

"20. Behavior tweaking. You can have them do or don't do various stuff. Tony K's AI improves it further.

 

 One has this as well with Tony K's AI for NWN (where he started).  False."

NwN2 has it by default (the vanilla Behavior tab), Tony K's AI improves it.
 

21. No body part clipping. Seamless bodies. Armors don't look like Legos with various seperate parts.

 

 No body part clipping, but major clipping issues with some armor and cloaks, etc.  I would say this is true, however.

"22. More voice sets. In addition to the ones in NwN1.

 

 They can be added to NWN, and there are haks and overrides for NWN that include all the voices from the game.  Not true."

They "can" be added. Just like in NwN2. NwN2 has more by default. Fact.
 

"23. Real Magic Bags/ of Holding. Each Bag of Holding can have, what, around 100 DIFFERENT items inside?

 

 Ok, true, but with multiple bags of Holding, inventory is basically a "meh"."

Multiple Bags of Holding means more inventory tetris, having to find in which bag you have which items.
I'm not sure in which module I did it, but I remember having like one inventory page just for the bags.
Then I had to open each one to find every item I might have stashed there.
 

24. Personal keep. You have your personal castle and stronghold. Along with merchants.

 

 True. 

25. 10x12 Quickslots. NwN1 had 36? Here you have 120. More than you will ever need.

 

 True.

"26. Even if you don't use all 120 slots, you have four bars at the same time on your screen, they're transparent also.

 

 True.  All these are parts of the UI improvements.  So I would reduce them to ONE (1) improvement."
"UI Improvement" is too vague. I'm giving individual reasons why each of those changes are important in the UI.
More slots is one reason, multiple slot bars at the same time on the screen is another and it's worth mentioning.
 

"27. Draggable Windows. Drag the various windows or the log to make them however you like.

 

 See above."

Likewise.
 

"28. Easy to customize interface. Don't like the interface? Thank Tchos for improving it for large resolutions.

 

 NWN has a customizable interface to a degree.  False."

Improved for higher resolutions? Changing the inventory into one big page instead of multiple pages?
The UI is hardcoded for NwN1 except colors and skins.
 

29. Easier to set abilities on Quickslots. Go to Skills/Feats and just drag them. No need to search in Radial.

 

 True.

"30. Much easier to create custom content. Kaedrin's Pack/Reeron's and various PWs are grateful.

 

 Blatently subjective and IMHO false.  Custom Content is much easier to create for NWN, coming from a CC perspective."

I didn't mean the toolset. I mean finding, editing and changing the files themselves.
Nevermind that NwN2 has stuff like KEMO Scry, KEMO Auction, KEMO Auction etc.
Less stuff are hardcoded in NwN2 and that's another fact. Not all or enough, but still more.
 

31. Custom classes/races require no injecting in modules like PRC. Just throw in override with multiple folders.

 

 This is true.  However, one can add the PRC to the base of NWN itself, removing the need to add it again for each mod, etc.

32. My Documents default folder. Harder to screw up or install stuff. If you reinstall, it all stays there.

 

 True.

33. Modes are in Modebar. Easier to activate/deactivate. Click for Power Attack or Defensive Casting.

 

 True.

"34. Modes don't reset after moving. Can stay on. No need to reactive Flurry every single time for example.

 

 Except that often the AI will reset the Queue when one is unselected/selected, making for the "Yo-yo" effect - really irritating.  However, true."

Can be set to not change the selected modes. Still less irritating than enabling Flurry and then taking a step to move to the next target and having to enable it again and again and again.
Played a Monk in the NwN1 OC. Extremely tedious to reclick Flurry every time.
 

35. Toggleable Low/Darkvision. Self-explanatory.

 

 True.  It is toggleable.

"36. Lipsyncing. In NwN1, characters constantly moved their heads up and down as if they were having a seizure.

 

 True.  I won't get into all the bugs with it here, though."

Bugs or not, NwN1 had no lip-sync or even moving lips.
 

"37. Better/More detailed character creation. More, more, more. Races/Classes/Feats/Colors/Hair

 

 Blatantly false.  Additions to NWN in the CC area far, far outstrip character creation in NWN2."

With PRC? Again a mod that works through workarounds. NwN2 has more races/classes/feats etc by default. Fact.
 

"38. Warlock class. Especially the mixing of Essences and Shapes. People on hardcore PWs, LOVE this class.

 

 Warlock is added with the PRC."

True. Also a mod.
 

"39. All conversation skills supported in first campaign. In the NwN1 OC, Bluff and Intimidate were basically useless.

 

 False.  Useless they were not, just not as useful as in the first OC of NWN2."

Intimidate and Bluff were added in the later expansions I believe. The NwN1 OC only had Persuade.
Unless I'm mistaken, Intimidate and Bluff are useless for the NwN1 OC because the conversations weren't coded with them in.
 

"40. Cloaks supported from the beginning. And they move nicely too.

 

  First part is true.  I despise NWN2 cloaks, however.  NWN CC cloaks are much better IMHO."

Mod. And cloaks became possible much much later and they were stiff also in the beginning.
Not sure how they are better in NwN1. Do explain.
 

"41. Visible boots/gloves. If you equip gloves or boots, you can see them.

 

 Possible to do in NWN - false."

Possible only if you change the appearance every time you equip something. If you equip an item in the vanilla NwN1 with the expansions, they don't become visible. Fact.
 

"42. Face visible with helmet. No more "Circlets" of Intelligence that are fullface helmets.

 

 Possible in NWN with VFX.  False."

Mod. Default Circlets of Intelligence in NwN1 are fullface helmets. Fact.
 

"43. Better animations in general. Especially the female ones. And especially the Monk animations.

 

 Blatantly false.  The animations in NWN are much smoother and much better done than those in NWN2."

I admit it's subjective. I still consider them better done. And I like the NwN2 Monk animations. Spinning kicks, double kickboxing air kicks, flying spinning kicks and karate punches. Fitting to a monk.
Unless I don't remember right, the NwN1 Monk animations are basically boxing jabs and "This is Sparta" kicks.
 

"44. Real hands with visible fingers. Only possible with a mod in NwN1, still stiff fingers.

 

 Since it is possible in NWN, false.  Throw it in override and done.  Thanks Issig!"

Mod. Default hands in NwN1 are closed fist-like blocks. Does the mod add animations to the fingers? I don't remember it.
 

45. Eyes that move and blink.

 

 True.

46. Icewind Dale/Baldur's Gate remakes made possible. And both have been released.

 

 True.

"47. Every race/subrace looks different. Not just different colors or effects.

 

 Blatantly false.  In NWN, every race and subrace can also be different."

There are no subraces in vanilla NwN1. Fact. At best, you can change the name of the race and the color. Otherwise, it uses the default models. In NwN2 Wild Elves look taller and thicker than elves, Drow are shorter, each race has different heads. Fact.
 

48. More customization options in Options. Especially for the Gameplay Modes.

 

True.

49. Campaign Selector instead of installing multiple modules. Nice and tidy, not needing multiple parts.

 

True

"50. Sorted Feats on level up by category. Only downside is that the Focus etc Feats don't have their own sub-menu.

 

True, but part of the UI improvements, so it goes in the improved UI catagory."
Minor reason I admit. Still it's nice to not have to search for a special feat in alphabetical order. Want a spellcasting feat? Go to the spellcasting category. Deserves a seperate reason.

 

"In retrospect, I would say your "50 points" are really only 23."

I just told you why that is not true.
Most of your arguments is "not true, mods do that". NwN2 improved and added stuff by default without needing a mod.

That's like saying that Fallout 3 is better than New Vegas because mods do the same.
Both games have mod support, the latter ones just have stuff that the former ones don't have and that's another fact.

[Luminus]

EDIT: Duh. Apparently obscuring the Edit button until you refresh the page does it. So intuitive.

[Arkalezth]

Refresh the page.

[AncientWolfgr]

Well, we've learned here that this is a NWN2 forum, and some people simply dont like NWN2. If you find yourself enjoying NWN2, ignore the ones who don't. We cannot begin to dissect why they'd want to come here and drop the tripe anyways, so unless you have nothing better to do, leave them in their own misery by letting them go unnoticed.

 

I can spend an afternoon ripping apart NWN still to find out, I hated it and considered it low quality for what I wanted from the concept of community driven/created game creation systems. When NWN2 came out I saw the potential for shat-canning the crappy graphics NWN tried making me stare at, and found (over time) things as a developer, drove me crazy because no matter how much you try polishing a lego turd, its still, a lego turd. In other words, NWN2 fixed alot of what I found NWN lacking/missing, and haven't had to look back ever since. I'm not your typical server admin, and I certainly dont suffer things I dont want to deal with- At least, NWN2 has allowed me to do just about everything AND have it look the way I want, period.

[WebShaman]

Any comparison must include CC support - otherwise, what use a comparison?  Are we then going to start comparing just the original game (without XPs, without Patches) as well?

 

Ridiculous!

 

Comparisons are there for what the game can do - with everything added in.

 

Fact is, other than the improved (open) UI and the full party additions, NWN2 does not have much more over NWN.  Most of the graphical things have been translated over to NWN, btw.  Textures, placeables, etc.

 

NWN has alternative combat animations (and the monk combat styles are really cool!).  Where are those for NWN2? 

 

The PRC can be ADDED to NWN ala Patch - then one doesn't have to keep adding it to mods, btw.  Same for just about every resource. 

 

As for the OHS - no, you can't just click on a portrait, etc - as I said, one has to go through a tedious process of exiting the adventure (mod), load a suppliment, change to companion, then load back.  It is a work around that is not anywhere near the full party system of NWN2.

 

So that list is as I pointed out.

[Luminus]

The default game means what the official developers brought to the game.

By default, with all the expansions and patches, NwN2 did FAR more stuff better than NwN1 (don't make me list them again).
Though it's much less polished.

Also some people just don't want to use mods, are not aware of them or some of them are not compatible with each other or some modules.

For CC the credit goes to the mod makers, for official stuff the credit goes to the game and the developers.

That's why my reasons are called "50 Reasons Why NwN2 is Better" and not "50 Reasons why modding is better in NwN2".

And by the way, the controllable companion mod/hack for NwN1 is so tedious and unintuitive that I cannot imagine anyone seriously using it.

"Yeah, let me save, load the adventure again in the middle of battle to be able to use the spell I need to cast. Then let me do it again for my Cleric/Druid/Bard or switch to my Rogue to use an item with UMD or Sneak Attack."

Also it's like saying:
-Baldur's Gate 1 has lots of NPC dialogue and more romances than BG2.
-...What are you talking about? BG1 has no romances or lots of NPC dialogue.
-It has with with mods!
-*facepalms* That doesn't count. I could make Oblivion have more romances and deeper dialogue than Baldur's Gate 2 and Planescape Torment. That doesn't mean anything.