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Enter the dungeon


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#1
Calister68

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Ok, I finally found some time to speak a little about my new project ! I prefer to begin a new thread, since I'll not talk about "Calister placeables"^_^

Working on tiles for my last pack allowed me to understand how it works, at least partially, and I must admit I found this really fun, even if it's a little more complex than building "simple" placeables. After working on some variations of the stock tiles, I thought the next step would be to try to create my own tileset, something I would not have thought possible some months ago...

How do you build a tileset ? I have absolutely no experience in this, but I think the first question you have to answer is : what kind of tileset do you want to make ? A lot of ideas ran through my mind... I first hesitated between an icy cavern and a catacomb. But finally, I choose an environment that I wanted to see in this game for a long time : a dungeon !

I know, some of the stock tilesets can make very good dungeons, particulary the crypt. And RWS made a really nice dungeon tileset some years ago (I hope to be skilled like this one day !). But it's not exactly what I was looking for. What I wanted is a kind of old-school dungeon : cold, dark, with low ceilings, narrow hallways, rough stone walls covered by moss and mold, worn slabs... something creepy and gloomy, ancient but not ruined, exactly like this.

I was greatly inspired by the legend of Grimrock, and if you look closely at my tileset, you'll see that I took some inspiration in this excellent game.^_^

So I began to build the first tiles during the last two weeks. And here are the first results :

- screen 1 : hallway (yes, the dwarf is back !)
- screen 2 : grate and pit. The grate is a placeable I created for this tileset. I tested it in game, and it's really funny to shoot monsters, safely standing behind the bars... the only problem is the monsters can do the same:lol:. I put anchor hooks in the tiles, so it's really easy to place this grate quickly and with precision.
This pit tile is a variation of the basic "hallway" tile, which is just a corridor with two walls. I'll try to make a lot of tiles variations, in order to avoid repetition (the screen I posted recently, where you can see a drain, is a variation of the "end hallway" tile). But even a long hallway build with the same basic tile looks good, thanks to the textures -I'll talk about this.
In this picture, you can also see a part of the ceiling, which is a tribute to Grimrock.
- screen 3 : grates.
- screen 4 : hallway (can you hear the water drips ?^_^).
- screen 5 : view in game. I made some tests with companions, to see how they behave in this new environment. The result was very good, they had no problem to follow me, and they never got stuck on a corner, even in a complex map with lots of corners and pillars. The monsters behaved very good too, they ran after me to cut me in pieces, archers turned around pillars and walls to have a clear line of sight on me...

Just a word about the textures. It's not obvious, but all the textures used in this tileset -except the ceiling and the moss- were made with only one stone wall texture I already used for the dungeon pit in my "pit and entrances" pack. I tried to use different textures for the wall and the floor, but the results were not very good... the two simply didn't match, whatever the textures I used.
So I took the stone wall texture, and used its stones to make slabs, pillars... a difficult work, since I'm not a graphist, but at least this dungeon seems to have been build by only one architect.:lol:

For now, all the basic tiles are finished : all combinaisons of walls, ceilings, corners. I'll now make some variations I have in mind and polish some textures. After that will begin the hard work : making the doors ! And probably some metatiles...

Thank you for reading me (and sorry for my awful english), and keep building !^_^

#2
Tchos

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One could make many classic-style puzzle dungeons with a set like this. I think the texturing work is handsome, as well, single texture or not.

#3
kamal_

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If you limit yourself to one standard texture for walls, one for ceilings, and one for floors (they can be the same texture) for the base tiles everywhere in the tileset, retexturing support is trivial. You can always add alternate texture options. It's when people use more than three base textures, iron grates and stuff not needing retexture support notwithstanding, that causes problems.

Also, you've got PM.

Modifié par kamal_, 02 décembre 2013 - 12:55 .


#4
Dann-J

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That looks like good honest dwarven architecture to me. Solid, practical and unpretentious - much like dwarves themselves.

A few 2D floor placeables (as environmental objects) could easily transform the floors where necessary.

#5
rjshae

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That looks marvelous! Great stuff. It's exactly the kind of architecture I'd picture for a game like the original Wizardry, or the opening dungeon in Bane of the Cosmic Forge.

One minor suggestion/request, if I may be so bold: for a couple of the simple door tiles, would it be possible to add variant or two for different sizes of doors? Like a double door, a porticulis, or an arched door? Hopefully that wouldn't be too much trouble.

#6
Hellfire_RWS

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That is a beautiful tile set. Amazing design and texture work.

#7
PJ156

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I echo Hellfire.

The tile set appears a bit more cramped and confined in the shots but actually there appears to be a lot room to move and swing the camera about. Its going to be a great asset to the commmunity and it's very inspriring to pick up Gmax and give it a go.

If I am correct the walls are not always to the outside of the tile? It looks like the corner of the 90 degree bend is not of the very corner of the tile. That's a nice touch too because it means the pillars are not a feature of the corner. I may be reading the pictures wrong :D

PJ

#8
Morbane

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way to go calister!

just simply awesome - so much in so little time

its really great having more tile/model contributions these days!

it seems to be contagious :)

#9
andysks

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These will be super cool :). Never, enough, tilesets!

#10
Calister68

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Thank you for all your comments !

kamal : maybe I was not clear enough, but in fact this tileset uses a lot of different textures for the base tiles. What I tried to explain is that I used only one texture -the stone wall- to build all the others. ^_^

dannj : yes, this looks like a good tileset for an abandoned dwarf stronghold... populated by undead dwarves:lol: ? I'll make some floor placeables, including moss and dirt patches. And I plan to build some floor variations, a ground grate and missing slabs, for example.

rj : don't worry, I plan to build different door sizes. And maybe custom doors, if I can learn how this work - I never worked on door tiles !

pj : you read it correctly. This particular shape is caused by the width of the hallways, which are narrower than the stock tiles -this was something I wanted since the begining, because I always found the "original" nwn2 hallways far too large. The border of the tile is located right in the middle of the pillars, which I cutted in two parts. That way, you can build very nice massive pillars by using 4 corners (I'll post some screens later). And don't worry for the space, the hallways are large enough for a drunk dwarf to wander^_^.

Modifié par Calister68, 02 décembre 2013 - 09:54 .


#11
Tchos

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Calister68 wrote...
because I always found the "original" nwn2 hallways far too large.

Me too.  The "hallways" are the size of bedrooms!

#12
rjshae

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Calister68 wrote...

rj : don't worry, I plan to build different door sizes. And maybe custom doors, if I can learn how this work - I never worked on door tiles !


Awesome!

The placeables have a column in the placeables.2da file for setting the default door type. Not sure if you can do the same for individual tiles though.

Calister68 wrote...
dannj : yes, this looks like a good tileset for an abandoned dwarf stronghold... populated by undead dwarves[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]
? I'll make some floor placeables, including moss and dirt patches. And
I plan to build some floor variations, a ground grate and missing
slabs, for example.


Something that would be cool to have is a placeable of one of the wall columns, except with a set of vertical holes with simple metal spike tips sticking out. Like a wall trap...
:whistle:

#13
Calister68

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Tchos wrote...

Me too.  The "hallways" are the size of bedrooms!


Indeed^_^. But I quickly figured out that narrowing the hallways lead to some geometry complications, since nwn2 interior areas were made for basic 9x9 m tiles and large hallways. For example, my walls are too large to put a door frame in it (in explorer mode, you would have some difficulties to see the door). I'll have to find a solution for this, for example by reducing the wall width where I want to place a door.

rj : I plan to build a variation of the "open floor" tile with the wall column standing in the middle, and probably add this column in the tilesets placeables.

Modifié par Calister68, 02 décembre 2013 - 05:17 .


#14
rjshae

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Couldn't you use a wall indent to the door frame, like a short side branch? That would feel natural if the engineers built most of the walls thick so as to be load-bearing. Not sure whether perpendicular or diagonal sides would look better.

Calister68 wrote...
rj : I plan to build a variation of the "open floor" tile with the wall column standing in the middle, and probably add this column in the tilesets placeables.


Thank you. :)

#15
Morbane

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Calister68 wrote...

For example, my walls are too large to put a door frame in it (in explorer mode, you would have some difficulties to see the door). I'll have to find a solution for this, for example by reducing the wall width where I want to place a door.


perhaps there could be a "hall side" where the door appears near - and a "room side" where the door is deep set into the wall?

another way would be to have a groove the width of the door all the way to the ceiling - then no hidden doors...

:innocent:

ooo!

Calister - if you get the door thing worked out, a wall-looking door would be awesome - "the better" secret door :happy:

Modifié par Morbane, 02 décembre 2013 - 08:27 .


#16
rjshae

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Another option would be to put an arch or box frame above the door, with perhaps a grating or a bricked over opening. That would improve the visibility.

Kind of like this, except more grungy of course:

Posted Image

Modifié par rjshae, 02 décembre 2013 - 09:23 .


#17
Happycrow

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Actual closets, privies, and small spaces for tunnels/stairs? That difference size really opens up possibilities.

#18
Calister68

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Thank you for all these interesting ideas !^_^
Work is progressing well on my first door tile. I finally solved the problem by reducing the width of the wall in all its length. That way, the players should have a clear view on the door frame.

Modifié par Calister68, 03 décembre 2013 - 09:46 .


#19
PJ156

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Can we have some more screenies please. I want to drool some more :)

PJ

#20
Calister68

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I'll post one as soon as my door tile is finished :)

#21
Calister68

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Some news : I finally finished my first door tile, and it's working well. The most difficult was to choose the shape of the door frame^_^.

I'm also working on an arched door. This one is perfect for a portcullis, but not really for the stock arched doors, which are exterior doors, smaller than the interior ones, and with a particular top which doesn't match my arch. I'll see if I can make a custom door for this.

Two other screens to show some pillars : the first is a variation of the "open floor" tile with the pillar in the middle, and the second shows the pillars you can make with four tiles corners (in game).

#22
PJ156

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Ahhhh that did it.

These look very nice indeed. I like the door recesses and, as a earlier poster suggested, some could be left plain giving simple recessed areas.

Very nice work Callister.

PJ

#23
Calister68

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Thank you PJ :)

Just a question, if someone knows : is it possible to create a door with gmax ? I found no tutorial to explain how to do this...

#24
Morbane

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can you open its model in gmax?

i suppose if there is a converter - there would be a possibility

but i cant even open the program without a sense of foreboding and fear of rendered heights, birds, and trains

#25
kamal_

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Calister68 wrote...

Thank you PJ :)

Just a question, if someone knows : is it possible to create a door with gmax ? I found no tutorial to explain how to do this...

It needs the door hookpoint, what the door snaps to. You can't add one in gmax that I'm aware of, but you can import one from 3ds Max. Rolo Kipp fixed a tile for me this way, so he knows more.