786 réponses à ce sujet

[Milan92]

AresKeith wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

So, is anyone else hoping for the opportunity to have our Inquisitor sit down with the leaders of the factions and discuss how to provide basic freedoms for mages while ensuring the protection as well as freedom of normals?
Or is that just me?

I just wanna turn everyone into the Sith Empire under Darth Xemnas

With the Imperial March in the background 

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Just because I romanced Anders doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says or does. That's just sad.

Anders is the Makers given choice to both sexes in thedas. Nobody can resist his charmming good looks.

He was actually hotter in Awakening.

[AresKeith]

Nefla wrote...

Templars are necessary. The circle is necessary. The circle needs reform, and the Templars (at least in Kirkwall) need to be policed way better.

^^^^
Winner

[General TSAR]

He was more charming in Awakening, at least he didn't whine and moan about Templars every five minutes.

Modifié par General TSAR, 02 décembre 2013 - 04:16 .

[LOLandStuff]

Charming good looks? Oh please! First thing I wanted to do when I first played was wash him and buy him some new clothes. He looked like a bum.
His clothing got better in ActIII tho.

[Sir JK]

MisterJB wrote...

So, is anyone else hoping for the opportunity to have our Inquisitor sit down with the leaders of the factions and discuss how to provide basic freedoms for mages while ensuring the protection as well as freedom of normals?
Or is that just me?

I don't really need them to sit down in a room and discuss, let alone reach a conclusion. But I would like to see both sides make a very good case for themselves, with rational and reasonable arguments. I don't require them to be shown as good guys, just that there's more than scripture behind their ideas.

[Hellion Rex]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Charming good looks? Oh please! First thing I wanted to do when I first played was wash him and buy him some new clothes. He looked like a bum.
His clothing got better in ActIII tho.

Meh, not seeing it. MUCH hotter in Awakening.

[Lord Raijin]

Anders is not a noble and therefor you can't expect him to dress in fashion. He was living in Darktown hiding from the Templar's and running his clinic at the same time. He was not rich either, since he receives no financial assistance in his Clinic he was short on coin to buy new clothing.

Oh and I actually do like his robes.

[Frogspawned]

 I apologise in advance if anyone feels this post is attacking their posts. I did originally include quotes but removed them to hopefully prevent any such impressions of persecution. It is not my intent to defame anyone, and nor is it to say that mages are totally in the wrong. All I hope to do is clarify that the Templars as a whole are not the monsters they are often made out to be. 

I also apologise if - by removing said quotes - parts of my response no longer make sense, but i've done my best to keep it coherent.

While i'm sure that there are those out there that will disagree, as far as i'm aware it has never been the main goal of the Templar Order to slaughter mages wholesale. And while by modern standards the original concept of the Circle of Magi may be considered "Oppressive", the fact is that the Chantry shows remarkable tolerance for such potentially dangerous individuals, going so far as to give them secure places of learning in which to practice their arts.

There are many flaws with the argument that Mages and Templars are incomparable as groups, i'm afraid, and i'll do my best to address them. 

Many claim that Mages are a collection of individuals brought together by the fact that they possess magical talent. While this is true, they often go on to say that the Templars are not a group of individuals brough together by similar intangible means - namely a belief that mages need to be stewarded by responsible guardians in order to prevent any individual mage's powers running away with them (either through irresponsibility or demonic influence) - which only serves to dehumanise Templars in their view, and is - quite simply - false. The vast majority of templars are not men who join their order because they relish the idea of tearing mage-born children from their families and murdering those mages that give in to baser instincts. Instead, I would imagine they tend to be decently pleasant individuals who realise the necessity of some manner of protection for the common man, and give up their lives in pursuit of this noble goal.

The fact that 'Kidnapping and Murder' are words that are often used in context of what Anders calls 'The mages' plight' is rather revealing, demonstrating a rather slanted view of what the Templars are forced to do in order to make sure the average Thedosian does not need to fear being burned alive because they trespass on a mage's property. While I will concede that what they do to mage children is close to kidnapping, they do not do so with the intention of mistreating them, only teaching them how to control their magical gifts, lest those same gifts in turn control the mage and cause destruction that would be on an almost unimaginable scale if the Templars did not have to deal with abominations on a semi-regular basis. Murder, on the other hand, is simply not the case. Sometimes they are forced to kill a mage who has become an abomination, that is true, but they are able to do it quickly and cleanly in most cases, preventing the massive damage that an abomination would do to the typical populace were mages not kept in controlled conditions. This is more akin to the execution of a dangerous criminal than the murder of an innocent citizen. The threat posed by abominations is very real.

Finally, the idea that Templars are 'free to leave the order whenever they please' is a gross misapprehension. As we know from Alistair in DA:O - Templars are very protective of the techniques they use to defend against magic, and Alistair was only allowed to leave because - technically - he had not yet taken any Templar vows (and it was implied heavily that had he done so, the chantry would not even have released him to the Grey Wardens) and because Duncan pressed the issue of his recruitment through the right of Conscription. Considering the large number of recruits the Templars no doubt gain from dispossessed orphans in this manner, we can extrapolate that a certain number of Templars have no more choice in the matter of who they become than mages do. When someone is raised by the Chantry they have few career paths available, and boys - it would seem - are groomed to take the path of the Templar. Very few orphans ever chose to be what they are.

Ultimately, the Chantry and - by association - the Templars are a very benevolent structure that did its best to provide safety and security for everyone in an imperfect world, and I do not begrudge the Templars for being skeptical of the idea that we should let the mages police themselves. While there are certainly issues with the abuse of power on both sides of the Mage/Templar debate, there is very little justification for killing all Templars just because of what they are.


As for the original topic, my inquisitor would wrestle with the idea of killing a group of Templars that were almost certain to sympathise with their Red counterparts, but would probably show them mercy because no good ever came of gratuitous wanton slaughter.

Modifié par Frogspawned, 02 décembre 2013 - 04:21 .

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

TipsLeFedora wrote...

Can we kill mages instead?

This human understands!

In fact we should kill all the humans and all the elves!

Let the Dwarves rule the world!

Hope to kill another dalish tribe, they remind me too much of quarian's for me not to find then irritating

[General TSAR]

I hate to admit it but yeah they do.

[LOLandStuff]

Anders in Awakening: A time when he used to look good and be funny.
Anders in DAII: Paranoid and a constant look of QQ.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

So, is anyone else hoping for the opportunity to have our Inquisitor sit down with the leaders of the factions and discuss how to provide basic freedoms for mages while ensuring the protection as well as freedom of normals?
Or is that just me?

You're not alone on this. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Anders in Awakening: A time when he used to look good and be funny.
Anders in DAII: Paranoid and a constant look of QQ.

Its like old vs new cloud.

[Lord Raijin]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Anders in Awakening: A time when he used to look good and be funny.
Anders in DAII: Paranoid and a constant look of QQ.

Everyone deserves to hit rock bottom once and in while... and you would be pranoid too if you (A mage) were in a city where the templars were powerful all over the place.

[The Elder King]

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Anders in Awakening: A time when he used to look good and be funny.
Anders in DAII: Paranoid and a constant look of QQ.

Everyone deserves to hit rock bottom once and in while... and you would be pranoid too if you (A mage) were in a city where the templars were powerful all over the place.

Merrill wasn't paranoid.
Not that what you said about Kirkwall isn't right, but not everyone reacts in the same way. And Justice/Vengeance probably influenced Anders in being more paranoid.

Modifié par hhh89, 02 décembre 2013 - 04:33 .

[Br3admax]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Its like old vs new cloud.

YOU BE QUIET

How much of FF VII Compelation have you played? He doesn't mean femCloud Lightning.

[MisterJB]

Jaison1986 wrote...
Now this is something people fail to notice. Would templars supporters really keep supporting them the way they do if they tried to put themselves on the shoes of an circle mage?

Would I argue for the good of mages? Certainly, people need to look out for themselves.

On the other hand, if I was given the choice of studying magic during the day and going to home at night; or remaining in the Circle, I would pick the latter because I would be terrified of going to sleep and waking up to discover I was possessed by a demon and killed my family plus a lot of other's people families. So, were I a mage in Thedas, I might not be a Loyalist but I would die before becoming a Libertarian.

Modifié par MisterJB, 02 décembre 2013 - 04:55 .

[Lord Raijin]

hhh89 wrote...
Merrill wasn't paranoid.
Not that what you said about Kirkwall isn't right, but not everyone reacts in the same way. And Justice/Vengeance probably influenced Anders in being more paranoid.

Merrill never experience Circle life. She was living free in a Dalish Sabrae clan away from society. When she first entered Kirkwall she was nervous.... and for good reasons too. Shes entering Templar territory. They wouldn't hesitate to slaughter her if they found out that she was a blood mage.

[General TSAR]

With good reason, Merill is a complete idiot, that's why she got kicked out of her tribe.

[Br3admax]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

How much of FF VII Compelation have you played? He doesn't mean femCloud Lightning.

Three different media. In order:

Cloud: I pity you. You just don't get it at all! There's not a thing I
DON'T cherish! Cloud: Stay where you belong...in my memories. Sephie: I
will...never be a memory. Cloud: I'm not alone...not anymore.

Then:

Cloud: Come on everyone, let's mosey. Barrett + Cid: !!!! Argh! #@$@$!
Tifa to Aeris: I will claw your eyes out if you get near him. Aeris:
*dead* Sephiroth/Jenova: You are a puppet.

Finally:

"Infinite in mystery is the gift of the goddess. We seek it thus, and take to the sky." "Three friends go to battle. One is wounded, another flies away, and the third returns a hero."

"Those aren't the wings of a monster, Angeal. They're the wings of an angel!"

"Then tell me, Zach. What do angels long for? What do angels dream of??!!"

"Tell me!"

"...to be human."


i.e., Advent Children, the original game, and Crisis Core.

SOLDIER Cloud>Real Cloud. 

[Hellion Rex]

General TSAR wrote...

With good reason, Merill is a complete idiot, that's why she got kicked out of her tribe.

She chose to leave, they didn't kick her out. Merrill however didn't invite a spirit into her soul, so she is hardly an idiot.