786 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaison1986]

eluvianix wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

With good reason, Merill is a complete idiot, that's why she got kicked out of her tribe.

She chose to leave, they didn't kick her out. Merrill however didn't invite a spirit into her soul, so she is hardly an idiot.

She made a deal with an demon. How is that smart?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Relevant to anders.

[Br3admax]

Jaison1986 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

With good reason, Merill is a complete idiot, that's why she got kicked out of her tribe.

She chose to leave, they didn't kick her out. Merrill however didn't invite a spirit into her soul, so she is hardly an idiot.

She made a deal with an demon. How is that smart?

How much longer do you think they would have allowed her there, do you think. The Keeper was the only thing that was haulting a lynching. 

[Vulpe]

 I would never kill the many for the mistakes of the few.Even if some templars are not innocent and they've treated mages terrible, that doesn't mean that they would become the abominations the red templars are.

I would order my soldiers to take them captive.I would instruct my soldier to proceed as follows:

Always approach them in a greater number. If any of them resist the arrest after they've been warned and informed of what would happen if they don't cooperate, try to immobilize them and use just enough force to get them out from the fight. No letal injuries. They should use lethal force only if the respective templar tried to kill or killed one of them.

They would be imprisoned and treated with dignity, but they would be interrogated on a regular basic ( no force, just simple communication). If I decide they are not trustworthy, I would cut their lyrium supplies and let the suffer from dementia. They will still get food, just no lyrium. After some time they will get their dose. If they are still not willing to cooperate, the process will repeat itself.

The ones that are proven guilty after the interrogation and investigations will be executed ( if we could do the executions ourselves, then my Inquisitor would do it. A life is still a life, no matter how it has been lived. A man should take full responsability for his decisions and not put someone else to carry his burdens. "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." )

The ones that prove usefull and not guilty would be recruited in The Inquisition.If they don't wish to do it, they will remain captives until things settle down or until a Chantry representant can vouch for them ( preferably a letter from The Divine herself ).  

That would be how I would act, but I doubt we'll be given such an opportunity in game.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 02 décembre 2013 - 05:38 .

[Br3admax]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Relevant to anders.

Dissidia Cloud is during the middle of FF VII, when Cloud barely even knew himself and questioned his very being. Anders lost character, Cloud gained character. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I wish he would keep his gained character, instead of defaulting to intermediate cloud every single time he's shown in other medium. (Looking at you advent children and kingdom hearts)

[nightscrawl]

Frogspawned wrote...

I apologise in advance if anyone feels this post is attacking their posts. I did originally include quotes but removed them to hopefully prevent any such impressions of persecution. It is not my intent to defame anyone, and nor is it to say that mages are totally in the wrong. All I hope to do is clarify that the Templars as a whole are not the monsters they are often made out to be.

<SNIP>

You left out a major component in your post and that is religious ideology, which in turns leads to zealotry. As long as the templars are connected to the Chantry you will have templars who not only think of it as their job, but also think of it as their mission, and their Maker given right to treat mages in this manner.

I actually like Cullen as a character, but his remark, "Mages cannot be treated like people, they are not like you and me," is very telling; not only of how he personally feels, but of how the templars are indoctrinated by the Chantry to have this mindset. Any system where the caretakers, jailers, overseers, or whatever you want to call them, look on their charges as less than human will ALWAYS be open to abuse. It is a very common device that has been used by conquering armies for centuries: it doesn't matter if I kill or torture these people, or rape their women, because they are just animals, and like animals not worthy of the same considerations as people. Most of your post treates the templars in too general terms, while ignoring the abuses that have gone on, particularly in Kirkwall.


That said, I tend to look on the templars a bit differently than most. Many people look on the templars in the same manner as they look at police officers: as a uniform to be hated and/or feared, instead of the person inside that uniform. My mother was a police officer for 26 years and I never ceased to be surprised at the negative reactions I would get from my peers when I would mention this. Maybe they or a family member had a bad experience with police. There are frequently stories in the news where they have abused their power. I totally get that. BUT, most of them are decent people, with families, who just look at it as a job and nothing more, and who also look on their fellow officers who do abuse their power with disdain.

I'm sure that similar things can be said of templars. You mention that, for a number of recruits this is their only avenue. It reminds me of Keran from DA2. In pleading to remain with the templars he says that he needs his commission or his sister can't eat. I'm sure that his example isn't the only one. Many people join such organizations as a means to escape poverty. Even our modern military offers incentives such as a college education, skill training, and other things in order to entice people to join.

So, while I am able to concede that templars as a whole are not all "monsters," neither can you claim that they are "a very benevolent structure." To say so completely disregards the serious problems within the Circle system and hinders finding a solution to those problems. For what it's worth, I don't believe that solution to be abolishing the Circle system, or disbanding the templars.

I have said so numerous times on these forums and elsewhere and I will say it again: if the templars were a completely secular organization and were able to be run as an anti-magic police force, some of these abuses would be significantly reduced, and there would also be more structure in place for removing problem templars. But as long as templars see mages as sub-human and think of themselves as doing the Maker's work, there can be no change and no improvement.

As much as I disagree with Anders's methods, I do agree with one thing: there had to be a catastrophic event to force change. He provided the catalyst, and now it's up to the rest of us to go to work.

[Br3admax]

KH gets a pass. AC has no excuse.

[Br3admax]

EntropicAngel wrote...

AC is better.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZ-bMt2HhcAzWSUNsjHSIlFSvFLGkI6Da5DSIi1ShExwuoNw8klw

Tifa! Noooooooooooooooooooo!

Modifié par Br3ad, 02 décembre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Texhnolyze101]

I would happily kill any templar OR seeker red color based or not.

[nightscrawl]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I would happily kill any templar OR seeker red color based or not.

Cassandra disapproves -20.

[The Elder King]

Lord Raijin wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Merrill wasn't paranoid.
Not that what you said about Kirkwall isn't right, but not everyone reacts in the same way. And Justice/Vengeance probably influenced Anders in being more paranoid.

Merrill never experience Circle life. She was living free in a Dalish Sabrae clan away from society. When she first entered Kirkwall she was nervous.... and for good reasons too. Shes entering Templar territory. They wouldn't hesitate to slaughter her if they found out that she was a blood mage.

Merrill was nervous about living in a city full of people she doesn't know, expecially humans. She never said that she was nervous about templars. It might as well be part of the reason of why she was nervous, but that's just an interpretation, not a fact.
And the fact that she didn't experience Circle life is completely irrelevant. She knows what templars can do to mages. And yet she wasn't paranoid as Anders.

[Br3admax]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I would happily kill any templar OR seeker red color based or not.

Such extreme comments are why people laugh at pro-mages. Let's end the stigma, shall we? I shouldn't want to say that I'm not pro-mage when I comment. 

[lil yonce]

JulianWellpit wrote...
I would never kill the many for the mistakes of the few.Even if some templars are not innocent and they've treated mages terrible, that doesn't mean that they would become the abominations the red templars are.

What if you come across a templar unit you know absolutely is using red lyrium. They're doing something useful-- guarding a town, hunting blood mages, or something else, etc. They aren't savage, but they aren't completely sane either, and you know that once someone begins taking red lyrium a descent into madness is an inevitability i.e. Bartrand. Would your inquisitor take the same actions you described, possibly waste a lot of resources, or kill them on the spot?

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 02 décembre 2013 - 06:11 .

[Br3admax]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

KH gets a pass. AC has no excuse.

Get out, AC>Original. VII had octoslash, AC had whatever-the-heck-that-epicness-was-at-the-end-with-like-ten-simultaneous-Clouds.

Omnislash in VII. VII AC had the Omnislash Version 5.  VII AC:C had the Omnislash Version 6.

Really they should just call it Sephiroth bane, because that sums it up pretty nicely. 

[nightscrawl]

hhh89 wrote...

And the fact that she didn't experience Circle life is completely irrelevant. She knows what templars can do to mages. And yet she wasn't paranoid as Anders.

It's totally relevant. Simply knowing what a templar can do is not the same as living for many years being constantly watched by them, or of seeing abuses first hand, or being in solitary confinement for an entire year.

This is like a banter between Merrill and Fenris:
Merrill: You never come to the alienage, Fenris.
Fenris: I don't live in the alienage.
Merrill: Don't you care about the plight of our people? Not even a little bit?
Fenris: I don't need to visit the alienage to know what they suffer. I know it better than you.
Merrill: I've lived there for years! I see it firsthand!
Fenris: And I lived it.

Merrill's life experiences set her apart. That's not her fault certainly, but it is a fact, and it shapes her perceptions about things.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Inquis Blaurgh says:

Why persist in this meaningless struggle of survival? Embrace your death, and become one with the endless void of the fade.

[AresKeith]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I would happily kill any templar OR seeker red color based or not.

And Blood Mages and abominations and regular mages

[Texhnolyze101]

Br3ad wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I would happily kill any templar OR seeker red color based or not.

Such extreme comments are why people laugh at pro-mages. Let's end the stigma, shall we? I shouldn't want to say that I'm not pro-mage when I comment. 

What stigma? i don't like anything that has to do with the chantry especially there doped up band of mercenary's.

[Texhnolyze101]

nightscrawl wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I would happily kill any templar OR seeker red color based or not.

Cassandra disapproves -20.

I intend to find a way to kill her so she can disapprove all she wants while laying in a shallow grave.