786 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Notice what I said, Kain--I said there's no justifying it. not that it doesn't happen. i agree that it happens fairly often...and when it does, there's no justifying it.

How is there no justification for trying to live your life the way you want to live it? That's all you have - your life, it's a one time thing, the whole world is you, you will never be another person or be able to look at the world through someone else eyes. 
When other people worsen your quality of life you fight back, its imposible for everyone to get everything they want. 

The problem is when in doing so brings harm to others.You're confusing free will with total selfsness. You loving and beleiving what ever you want is fine. You hurting or killing someone just for fun is not.

[HiroVoid]

Erm i do believe this ME topic is veering us off the subject to be dicussed and debated here every one.

Perhaps
private messages could resolve this apparently personal debate
considering its value in part to the topic of the dicussion is now being
deminished.

Just make sure to friend each other.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:14 .

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

1) No she was not. She was raised by 2 parents who lived her in the boodocks.

2) Wrong. She had more crowd control then Samara but Samara had stronger attack power.

3) Let not kid ourselve. Someone trying to trick you it sleeping with her knowing full well it would kill you does not mean "LOYALTY".

4) Because she is amoral.

5) That a big no on that. You really think she's happy that she has to kill her daughter?

6) And can use that on other crew members.

7) You have issues.

8) She tried to kill you again on the ship by trying to trick you into sleeping with her. Really, that's not a point or issue?

1) She was faced with a choice of seclusion or death - a good parent wouldn't do that. ( That's my opinion AND Morinth's opinion. ) 

2) I am talking about the lore, not gameplay. They were equal, but Morinth had a lot more room for growth in power. 

3) She wasn't trying to trick me into anything, she spoke her mind, and the choice was up to me.

4) So am I then. 

5) I don't care if she is happy or not, what she had to do was something I was happy to prevent.

6) She came to help with the mission not sabotage it. 

7) Nah, not really. 

8) Look 3. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

We should kill all police officers because they might abuse their power. We should also kill all teachers because they might molest children. Kill all parents because they might abuse their children.
And kill all strangers because they might be bad people.

They made their choice, none of this would have to happen of they didn't choose to be something thst might be bad.

BSN **** posting. Thie thread is textbook of it.

[Usergnome]

Plaintiff wrote...

I would kill Templars anyway because they willfully joined an organization that seeks to oppress and slaughter people for having the wrong genes.

If those wrong genes allow for demonic possession, corruption, insane destructive powers and a sense of superiority over non-mages then I think that "oppression and slaughter" is justified, because the alternative is far, far worse.

And Red Lyrium affects anyone; not just Templars. Bartrand and all the guys in his mansion weren't Templars; they all went mad anyways.

Killing Templars would not solve the problem. If the problem is the Red Lyrium, why would you kill clean people for fear they might come in contact with the Lyrium and abuse it? Destroy the Lyrium, not the people.

That's also a good analogy for mages.

Modifié par Usergnome, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:17 .

[KainD]

EntropicAngel wrote...

If living your live involves killing people because you disagree with them, you're causing harm to them deliberately--permanent harm. You're not justified in deliberately causing permament, fatal harm simply because you don't agree with what they say.

A life lived for oneself alone, Kain, results in an empty world.

This is a response not only to EA. 

Living your life always involves killing, that's how the world is. Animals, plants, other orgnisms, people included, we al kill each other - for survival, for food, for comfort. Even the little micro cell organisms battle each other to death by billions and billions to death, and the strongest survives and absorbs and becomes something greater. The whole world is one huge war field, if you don't kill you die, you starve, your quality of life is non-existent. 
In our modern society the war is a little less ''barbaric'', it is social - upper society classes enjoy the luxury, and the lower classes starve and die and work their butts off so that the upper classes can enjoy their lives, and EVERYONE is part of the system. 

Modifié par KainD, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:22 .

[Angrywolves]

people should only send messages if they're friends. Enemies should not send messages, or they might get reported to mods. Rolls eyes.
If someone is a red templar, they've made their choice and don't deserve any mercy.

[KainD]

Br3ad wrote...

Yeah, one, no she wasn't. Notice her sisters raised in exactly the same way.

2 If you let her continue killing, stupid. Not more loyal in the slighest. That's because she's a psycho. Your opinion. When is Dominate useful, even when not metagaming? I doubt it works lorewise in any needed situation? You like her personality, great. Has nothing to do with this conversation.

She tried to kill a random person, and that screams Spec Ops to you? Wow. 

Her dominate ability could actually be used to unite the races against the reapers in ME3, if she came back as a squad mate at some point, she could take advantage of some of the leaders minds, seeing how any of them showed up on the Normandy. That would save a lot of time. That's an example. 

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1) No she was not. She was raised by 2 parents who lived her in the boodocks.

2) Wrong. She had more crowd control then Samara but Samara had stronger attack power.

3) Let not kid ourselve. Someone trying to trick you it sleeping with her knowing full well it would kill you does not mean "LOYALTY".

4) Because she is amoral.

5) That a big no on that. You really think she's happy that she has to kill her daughter?

6) And can use that on other crew members.

7) You have issues.

8) She tried to kill you again on the ship by trying to trick you into sleeping with her. Really, that's not a point or issue?

1) She was faced with a choice of seclusion or death - a good parent wouldn't do that. ( That's my opinion AND Morinth's opinion. ) 

2) I am talking about the lore, not gameplay. They were equal, but Morinth had a lot more room for growth in power. 

3) She wasn't trying to trick me into anything, she spoke her mind, and the choice was up to me.

4) So am I then. 

5) I don't care if she is happy or not, what she had to do was something I was happy to prevent.

6) She came to help with the mission not sabotage it. 

7) Nah, not really. 

8) Look 3. 

1.She had a disord that would force she to turn into a monster that killed other out of pure lust. There was no real choice. Added, Samara was planning to stay her entire life on that monistary with her daughts. She was not going to let them do it all alone. Added, it not like after sometime they are not allowed to leave. As seen in the A-Y and the story about the post tramatic stress asari, A-Y are allowed to live in the outside world only after years of proving that they have self control.

2.Lore wise it the same point. Samara is a matrach, the most powerful, oldest and wises of asari.

3.Sorry, she was trying to trick you. Telling you there was a chance you can servive sleeping her because some how you're special is clearly a trick.



5.Letting a serial killer say on the lose?

6. How on earth are you going to make sure you are going make sure she does not?

8. AGAIN, YES SHE DID TRY TO KILL YOU AGAIN ON THE SHIP.

[Cainhurst Crow]

@Kain

I have never killed another human being. Dont know if you hsve to rationalize a mass killing the way you have. But I know what I've done, and murder isn't one of those. Killing an animal, killing a plant, killing a microb, and killing a person are all different and you trying to equate them all and say its just common and natural to want to kill a bunch of people sounds more desperate then a calm and collective logical apprasement. Additionally trying to invoke class difference as equivocal to warfare and thud making it somehow okay to kill lots of people you don't like is the most gymnastic of logicsl leaps by far.

The fact you want to kill all the templars in a video gamethsts your prerogative.  The fsct you're not just trying to justify why you're making your choice, but tryint to hsve some sort of moral high ground in it, is what bothers me more. Just admit the real reason and stop spinning lies about your motives to make you feel better about it.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:28 .

[Master Warder Z_]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Usergnome wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I would kill Templars anyway because they willfully joined an organization that seeks to oppress and slaughter people for having the wrong genes.

If those wrong genes allow for demonic possession, corruption, insane destructive powers and a sense of superiority over non-mages then I think that "oppression and slaughter" is justified, because the alternative is far, far worse.

And Red Lyrium affects anyone; not just Templars. Bartrand and all the guys in his mansion weren't Templars; they all went mad anyways.

Killing Templars would not solve the problem. If the problem is the Red Lyrium, why would you kill clean people for fear they might come in contact with the Lyrium and abuse it? Destroy the Lyrium, not the people.

That's also a good analogy for mages.

Plaintiff disagrees with Templars themselves. The Red Templars are just a step further for him.

Well that's the beauty of DA there are many differing views of such subjects.

But i wouldn't view that notion as personally agreeable the Templars in my eye are by far the best orginization in place to deal with the Mage rebellion which will no doubt be a cornerstone of the DAI plot.

So to me personally? Removing them merely because of the risk posed by the magic ore is folly, That said i do agree with the destruction of Red Lyrium while it is a powerful tool it cannot be harnessed yet, perhaps when its abilities can be gleaned with out the insanity, crippling physical changes and such it could be used but until that time its a resource that should be best ignored if not destroyed or sealed away.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

If living your live involves killing people because you disagree with them, you're causing harm to them deliberately--permanent harm. You're not justified in deliberately causing permament, fatal harm simply because you don't agree with what they say.

A life lived for oneself alone, Kain, results in an empty world.

This is a response not only to EA. 

Living your life always involves killing, that's how the world is. Animals, plants, other orgnisms, people included, we al kill each other - for survival, for food, for comfort. Even the little micro cell organisms battle each other to death by billions and billions to death, and the strongest survives and absorbs and becomes something greater. The whole world is one huge war field, if you don't kill you die, you starve, your quality of life is non-existent. 
In our modern society the war is a little less ''barbaric'', it is social - upper society classes enjoy the luxury, and the lower classes starve and die and work their butts off so that the upper classes can enjoy their lives, and EVERYONE is part of the system. 

To an extent. Killing to live is one. Their is nothing wrong with eat or be eaten.(Unless you're a canibal.) It's bring pain and death for person joy that is an issue.

[Master Warder Z_]

Angrywolves wrote...

people should only send messages if they're friends. Enemies should not send messages, or they might get reported to mods. Rolls eyes.
If someone is a red templar, they've made their choice and don't deserve any mercy.

This assumption is based upon them willingly taking up the lyrium and using it with knowledge of what it will do to them.

Whom is to say that the person or person supplying this rock are speaking of what it did in Kirkwall to the Knight Commander? It may very well just potent lyrium to the Templars that used it, So while i wouldn't agrue that they are victims when they are attempting to ultize a resource during wartime.

I also would agrue that painting them all as heartless immoral monsters who took up the power willingly merely to terrorize those around them is conjecture at best.

[Medhia Nox]

@EntropicAngel: On some levels, I do, it still doesn't make his argument correct.

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

1.She had a disord that would force she to turn into a monster that killed other out of pure lust. There was no real choice. Added, Samara was planning to stay her entire life on that monistary with her daughts. She was not going to let them do it all alone. Added, it not like after sometime they are not allowed to leave. As seen in the A-Y and the story about the post tramatic stress asari, A-Y are allowed to live in the outside world only after years of proving that they have self control.

2.Lore wise it the same point. Samara is a matrach, the most powerful, oldest and wises of asari.

3.Sorry, she was trying to trick you. Telling you there was a chance you can servive sleeping her because some how you're special is clearly a trick.



5.Letting a serial killer say on the lose?

6. How on earth are you going to make sure you are going make sure she does not?

8. AGAIN, YES SHE DID TRY TO KILL YOU AGAIN ON THE SHIP.

1) Should've let Morinth be free until she proved that she would be a killer, not before that. Then my opinion would be different and I would side with Samara. Punishment AFTER not BEFORE. 

2) Yes, and Morinth can still become stronger, Samara is kinda at her strongest point. 

3) Sorry, but that's what she thought, she didn't say that you WOULD survive for sure. People don't volunteer to be a part of a suicide mission for a chance to MAYBE get high and MAYBE leave the ship in one peace after MAYBE surviving on a suicide mission. Specially after they tried to survive for 400 years. 

5) Pretty much. 

6) Because she has no motives to. 

8) Look 3. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh D.Kain you always consistently crazy.

Tell us about how the sex vampire was just an innocent victim again!

[KainD]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Killing an animal, killing a plant, killing a microb, and killing a person are all different and you trying to equate them all and say its just common and natural to want to kill a bunch of people sounds more desperate then a calm and collective logical apprasement.

Sadly what it is is exaclty logical, and seeing the difference comes from emotion. At the same time I'm not saying that I haven't fallen prey to the emotions like everyone else. 

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The fact you want to kill all the templars in a video gamethsts your prerogative.  The fsct you're not just trying to justify why you're making your choice, but tryint to hsve some sort of moral high ground in it, is what bothers me more. Just admit the real reason and stop spinning lies about your motives to make you feel better about it.

I just don't believe in compromise. That's all. 

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

To an extent. Killing to live is one. Their is nothing wrong with eat or be eaten.(Unless you're a canibal.) It's bring pain and death for person joy that is an issue.

Joy is improving the quality of life. It's the same as making shelter for example, to live more comfortable, instead of sleeping in the cold woods. 

[KainD]

EntropicAngel wrote...

And I didn't know you considered plants and animals as moral or ethical equals to humanity. Is that true? That's what your first and second sentence imply.

I do consider all equal, but that's the logical part of me that understands that. Emotions still have preference, and I am an emotional being, and thus UNIVERSALY animals and humans and plants are equal but for ME and other people it's not so.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1.She had a disord that would force she to turn into a monster that killed other out of pure lust. There was no real choice. Added, Samara was planning to stay her entire life on that monistary with her daughts. She was not going to let them do it all alone. Added, it not like after sometime they are not allowed to leave. As seen in the A-Y and the story about the post tramatic stress asari, A-Y are allowed to live in the outside world only after years of proving that they have self control.

2.Lore wise it the same point. Samara is a matrach, the most powerful, oldest and wises of asari.

3.Sorry, she was trying to trick you. Telling you there was a chance you can servive sleeping her because some how you're special is clearly a trick.



5.Letting a serial killer say on the lose?

6. How on earth are you going to make sure you are going make sure she does not?

8. AGAIN, YES SHE DID TRY TO KILL YOU AGAIN ON THE SHIP.

1) Should've let Morinth be free until she proved that she would be a killer, not before that. Then my opinion would be different and I would side with Samara. Punishment AFTER not BEFORE. 

2) Yes, and Morinth can still become stronger, Samara is kinda at her strongest point. 

3) Sorry, but that's what she thought, she didn't say that you WOULD survive for sure. People don't volunteer to be a part of a suicide mission for a chance to MAYBE get high and MAYBE leave the ship in one peace after MAYBE surviving on a suicide mission. Specially after they tried to survive for 400 years. 

5) Pretty much. 

6) Because she has no motives to. 

8) Look 3. 

1. That clearly is not how it works. A-Y have an intense draw to have sex. It better and safe to prove after then before.

2.By the time she'll be strong it would be 100 years later. Well past the reaper war.

3&8.  It's pretty clear she is trying to trick you. First she tell you you will die but you'll die with the greatest pleasure ever, then she says you won't die because your special... Sorry, she is trying to trick you.

5. So all the dead victeim she feeds on and their families knows just who fault it is for their loss.

6. She has plenty motive to do what ever the hell she wants...And you can't stop her.

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Killing an animal, killing a plant, killing a microb, and killing a person are all different and you trying to equate them all and say its just common and natural to want to kill a bunch of people sounds more desperate then a calm and collective logical apprasement.

Sadly what it is is exaclty logical, and seeing the difference comes from emotion. At the same time I'm not saying that I haven't fallen prey to the emotions like everyone else. 

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The fact you want to kill all the templars in a video gamethsts your prerogative.  The fsct you're not just trying to justify why you're making your choice, but tryint to hsve some sort of moral high ground in it, is what bothers me more. Just admit the real reason and stop spinning lies about your motives to make you feel better about it.

I just don't believe in compromise. That's all. 

Or viable military tactics apparently if you think removing a major wartime resource during an invasion is a viable course of action.

Personal distaste or support aside the Templar Order is one of the largest, best trained and wealthiest orders of warriors in Thedas. And while the majority of their resources were chantry supplied as i supplied viable agruments for in the best they can be and even have been a workable military force with out them.

So no compromise? Unbridled slaughter is uncompromising true; it also is a massive waste in this case, Its the same as stating all mages must die for merely being at risk for possession something even i an ardent templar supporter don't approve of.