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[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

To an extent. Killing to live is one. Their is nothing wrong with eat or be eaten.(Unless you're a canibal.) It's bring pain and death for person joy that is an issue.

Joy is improving the quality of life. It's the same as making shelter for example, to live more comfortable, instead of sleeping in the cold woods. 

Killing and harming others for joy is not a comfort no make life more comfortable. It not the same as sleeping in a warm place being the later is done out of the need to servive and the previous is done because the person is a sadist.

[TEWR]

General TSAR wrote...

With good reason, Merill is a complete idiot, that's why she got kicked out of her tribe.

Then you weren't paying attention.

1) Merrill chose to leave. Marethari even tells you this point blank to your face.

2) Flemeth calls Merrill intelligent. You can't really argue with Flemeth.

3) Merrill knows that all spirits of the Fade are dangerous. That doesn't mean they can't be useful and used to a person's benefit. It just means you have to tread carefully.

Anytime I see a person bash on Merrill and call her an idiot, I'm convinced that they're the ones that are idiots. I've become very bitter about the entire thing because the people saying "Merrill's wrong show no logic to the debates other then what they blindly believe, despite all the facts stating otherwise.

She made a deal with an demon. How is that smart?

Considering the demon was A) trapped in a demonic Buddha statue, sundered from the Fade, and C) severeley weakened as a result of A + B then HEY MAYBE IT WASN'T SO STUPID. Considering she also doesn't contact it for a full on seven years as a part of her project after the moment where it taught her blood magic, then maybe it wasn't stupid at all.

All of these things are expressly made clear in DAII and DAO.

Especially since she only asked it to teach her blood magic as a last resort after her attempts to work with her Keeper were shot down.

1) She knew Dalish healing magic that was proven to have an effect on the taint in an unamplified form, per DAO (Marethari tells you Merrill knows this type of magic).

2) Lyrium amplifies magic.

3) Merrill says she could've gotten the same result (cleansed Eluvian shard) if she had buckets of lyrium laying about. She also says, in Act 3, that she first attempted to work in conjunction with Marethari on the Eluvian project (meaning pooling their knowledge and magic together) and Marethari shot that down.

4) Blood amplifies magic as well.

Her first idea was to pool her strength with Marethari (and perhaps other mages in the clan, if there were any) to cleanse the shard. Her second notion upon the first one failing due to Marethari's strident refusal to see the fact that it was the Taint, not the mirror, that took Mahariel and Tamlen from them was lyrium. But hey, she didn't have any around! And it's expensive as all hell to buy, not to mention dangerous to handle and something Templars might notice!

So then she went to the absolute last resort considering she had a tainted fragment with her whose corruption could only be suppressed for so long (since the magic would've weakened with diminishing returns unless amplified).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:01 .

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. That clearly is not how it works. A-Y have an intense draw to have sex. It better and safe to prove after then before.

2.By the time she'll be strong it would be 100 years later. Well past the reaper war.

3&8.  It's pretty clear she is trying to trick you. First she tell you you will die but you'll die with the greatest pleasure ever, then she says you won't die because your special... Sorry, she is trying to trick you.

5. So all the dead victeim she feeds on and their families knows just who fault it is for their loss.

6. She has plenty motive to do what ever the hell she wants...And you can't stop her.

1) Better for whom? For other people? Why should their lives take priority over AY? 

2) You never know, AY was an interesting mystery for me, when I first met her.

3) So what you are saying is - she is a suicider? She thinks Shepard is so hot, that it is worth dying for a chance for a shag? 

5) Yes the Asari and the Justicars.

6) I don't want to stop her. Her motives involve helping me out on a sucide mission. 

[Angrywolves]

and can turn into a monster.not cool.

[KainD]

Master Warder Z wrote...
So no compromise? Unbridled slaughter is uncompromising true; it also is a massive waste in this case, Its the same as stating all mages must die for merely being at risk for possession something even i an ardent templar supporter don't approve of.

Yes it's either that, or mages become completely free. 

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

Killing and harming others for joy is not a comfort no make life more comfortable. It not the same as sleeping in a warm place being the later is done out of the need to servive and the previous is done because the person is a sadist.

Well what can you do? All people are different, and all live. 

[KainD]

EntropicAngel wrote...
There's part of the problem, then. You see eating a non-sentient plant or killing a non-sapient animal as the same as killing a sentient+sapient human being.

But what is a rational reason to consider otherwise? 

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
So no compromise? Unbridled slaughter is uncompromising true; it also is a massive waste in this case, Its the same as stating all mages must die for merely being at risk for possession something even i an ardent templar supporter don't approve of.

Yes it's either that, or mages become completely free. 

Bleh

Another Anders like Fanatic are you?

Compromise in my eye is the best hope for a reformed circle with restrictions and regulations that hopefully both parties will agree to.

Because the latter as you proposed is something that should never happen, in the one notable case it did. You get a society built around slavery that exists to feed the mages and support their drive for conquest.

So excuse me for not believing in the mage's superiority over "mundanes" to the extent that i think that granting them the invitation to seize power once again that i give them the chance to do so.

That said if i did find a magical device that could just suddenly switch the magic off? Well i don't know, I probably would use it.

Its as close to a curse in DA as it can get; The risks are too severe, the majority of mages are too weak and frail to overcome the demons and the most important factor of all? The entire rebellion becomes a moot point then, You have no reason not treat them as equals as that is exactly what they will be.

And those cursed to have that blighted magic within them, that said magic is critical to the workings of the majority of thedas but it can be overcome, techological advancement and magical advancement exist side by side in thedas but if the qunari society is any indicator techological advancement can all but replace magic in a society.

[TEWR]

Actually her clan members started to fear her and therefour she was no longer welcome in her clan. It was an emotional eviction non of the less. She became an outcast. One of her clan members feared her so much that he ran back into danger and wand up getting killed. It was safe that she was no longer welcome.

Pol and the rest of the clan were being fed baseless lies from Marethari that soured Merrill's reputation further and led to Pol acting like an idiot. Blaming Pol's actions on Merrill is asenine. Whereas in Act 1 some of the clan's members treated her with some hostility (SOME did. Chandan, Fenarel, Ilen, and Paivel (among others) did not... even saying she could come back) in Act 2 they were open with their hatred of her as a result of the baseless lies that Marethari fed them.

Said lies being "Merrill's tainted! She'll kill us all!". And then Marethari has the audacity to say to Merrill "Hey, you can come back you know! It's not too late!"

People like to fall into this false notion that just because a person is older, it automatically makes them right on everything. It doesn't.

And yes, She is an idiot for wanting to live in Kirkwall; a place that is not very mage friendly with the templars running the show.

Considering the next closest city is probably farther away then Kirkwall, no not really. Considering she can blend in with the other Elves of the Alienage (something she says) again not really. Considering she knows that if she traveled on her own, powerful as she is, she'd still be easy prey, no not really.

Considering Kirkwall is a former Tevinter base of magical research that just might have some clues to her project, no not really.

She knows to keep a low profile. She knows to blend in. And the majority of the Templars of Kirkwall are grossly incompetent anyway when it comes to policing mages outside of the Circle.

And they're abusive dicks to the Mages inside the Circle.

[KainD]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Bleh

Another Anders like Fanatic are you?

Compromise in my eye is the best hope for a reformed circle with restrictions and regulations that hopefully both parties will agree to.

Because the latter as you proposed is something that should never happen, in the one notable case it did. You get a society built around slavery that exists to feed the mages and support their drive for conquest.

So excuse me for not believing in the mage's superiority over "mundanes" to the extent that i think that granting them the invitation to seize power once again that i give them the chance to do so.

That said if i did find a magical device that could just suddenly switch the magic off? Well i don't know, I probably would use it.

Its as close to a curse in DA as it can get; The risks are too severe, the majority of mages are too weak and frail to overcome the demons and the most important factor of all? The entire rebellion becomes a moot point then, You have no reason not treat them as equals as that is exactly what they will be.

And those cursed to have that blighted magic within them, that said magic is critical to the workings of the majority of thedas but it can be overcome, techological advancement and magical advancement exist side by side in thedas but if the qunari society is any indicator techological advancement can all but replace magic in a society.

I would welcome a crusade against Tevinter to stop the slavery, right after mages get their freedom. But if Thedas really feels like mages should be locked up in circles.. well in that case I will WELCOME Tevinter and wish them luck in inslaving the rest of Thedas. Tevinter and Templars deserve one another, and frankly I think that flashy spells are cool. 

[rapscallioness]

No, OP. I would not.

Soooo, is that really the final name for them? The Red Templars? That's kinda...unimaginative.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. That clearly is not how it works. A-Y have an intense draw to have sex. It better and safe to prove after then before.

2.By the time she'll be strong it would be 100 years later. Well past the reaper war.

3&8.  It's pretty clear she is trying to trick you. First she tell you you will die but you'll die with the greatest pleasure ever, then she says you won't die because your special... Sorry, she is trying to trick you.

5. So all the dead victeim she feeds on and their families knows just who fault it is for their loss.

6. She has plenty motive to do what ever the hell she wants...And you can't stop her.

1) Better for whom? For other people? Why should their lives take priority over AY? 

2) You never know, AY was an interesting mystery for me, when I first met her.

3) So what you are saying is - she is a suicider? She thinks Shepard is so hot, that it is worth dying for a chance for a shag? 

5) Yes the Asari and the Justicars.

6) I don't want to stop her. Her motives involve helping me out on a sucide mission. 

1. Based on your logic, why should the A-Y life take priority over their? If life some be about being cin comfert and doing what ever you want, would not people who want to do so want anyone who can cut there lives short because of an illness be locked away?

On a serious note, the fact an A-Y is drawn to kill means it better to teach them to have self control in an environment where mistakes won't happen.

2.No, we have a clear understanding hoe strong she is. And she will not be stronger for a while.

3.How is she wanting to sleep with Shepard being suicidal? That would kill the only person who can stop her due to being unable to control. It's not suicidal at all.

5. How does that logic work? They never forced her to be a serial killer.

6. Her motive is to stay alive long enough to get to her next feeding.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Killing and harming others for joy is not a comfort no make life more comfortable. It not the same as sleeping in a warm place being the later is done out of the need to servive and the previous is done because the person is a sadist.

Well what can you do? All people are different, and all live. 

Make laws  to prevent people from harming one another and enforce them. The thing humans have been doing for ages.

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Bleh

Another Anders like Fanatic are you?

Compromise in my eye is the best hope for a reformed circle with restrictions and regulations that hopefully both parties will agree to.

Because the latter as you proposed is something that should never happen, in the one notable case it did. You get a society built around slavery that exists to feed the mages and support their drive for conquest.

So excuse me for not believing in the mage's superiority over "mundanes" to the extent that i think that granting them the invitation to seize power once again that i give them the chance to do so.

That said if i did find a magical device that could just suddenly switch the magic off? Well i don't know, I probably would use it.

Its as close to a curse in DA as it can get; The risks are too severe, the majority of mages are too weak and frail to overcome the demons and the most important factor of all? The entire rebellion becomes a moot point then, You have no reason not treat them as equals as that is exactly what they will be.

And those cursed to have that blighted magic within them, that said magic is critical to the workings of the majority of thedas but it can be overcome, techological advancement and magical advancement exist side by side in thedas but if the qunari society is any indicator techological advancement can all but replace magic in a society.

I would welcome a crusade against Tevinter to stop the slavery, right after mages get their freedom. But if Thedas really feels like mages should be locked up in circles.. well in that case I will WELCOME Tevinter and wish them luck in inslaving the rest of Thedas. Tevinter and Templars deserve one another, and frankly I think that flashy spells are cool. 

Pity your invading slavers are in a bogged down ground war with the Qunari that has lasted nearly what? a century by the time of Stolen Throne? They lacked the means, resources and resolve to step outside their seat of power the days of the Imperium are done.

And comparing the Templars to the society that enslaved nearly 90% of thedas, killed countless people, unleashed horrors upon the world in the form of the blights and tainted Magisters and ran over every society encountered including nearly the entirity of the elven species.

You have a gross simplification of the issue in my eye.

The templars could exist another thousand years, and they could all turn their circles into the one of kirkwall and they still wouldn't equal the bodycount of the imperium, they still wouldn't approach the level of destruction of the imperium.

That said your hope for the stalin of DA to invade the rest of the continent aside, I do have a feeling the imperium will play a role within DAI considering bioware has confirmed at the very least the capital of the imperium will be a location in game.

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. Based on your logic, why should the A-Y life take priority over their? If life some be about being cin comfert and doing what ever you want, would not people who want to do so want anyone who can cut there lives short because of an illness be locked away?

On a serious note, the fact an A-Y is drawn to kill means it better to teach them to have self control in an environment where mistakes won't happen.

2.No, we have a clear understanding hoe strong she is. And she will not be stronger for a while.

3.How is she wanting to sleep with Shepard being suicidal? That would kill the only person who can stop her due to being unable to control. It's not suicidal at all.

5. How does that logic work? They never forced her to be a serial killer.

6. Her motive is to stay alive long enough to get to her next feeding.

1) Exactly, and they would be right! BUT so is Morinth in the situation she was put into. You get what you give. 

2) Your interpritation of the amount of lore that was given on Morinth up until that point ( no meta-gaming )

3) Olol.. If she wanted to kill Shepard she would've done it right there in her appartement right after she killed Samara. Shepard - no armor, no weapons, biotics inferior. She would easily crush him/her with her biotics and be done with it. But nope, instead she asks to help on a freaking suicide mission. 

5) No, but they never gave her the proper freedom, and thus there is no counter weight for her to consider not becoming one. 

6) Which would involve just walking on Shepard after Samara would be dead and living her life how she wants to, There is absolutely nothing Shepard would be able to do to stop her from just turning around and leaving. 

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Bleh

Another Anders like Fanatic are you?

Compromise in my eye is the best hope for a reformed circle with restrictions and regulations that hopefully both parties will agree to.

Because the latter as you proposed is something that should never happen, in the one notable case it did. You get a society built around slavery that exists to feed the mages and support their drive for conquest.

So excuse me for not believing in the mage's superiority over "mundanes" to the extent that i think that granting them the invitation to seize power once again that i give them the chance to do so.

That said if i did find a magical device that could just suddenly switch the magic off? Well i don't know, I probably would use it.

Its as close to a curse in DA as it can get; The risks are too severe, the majority of mages are too weak and frail to overcome the demons and the most important factor of all? The entire rebellion becomes a moot point then, You have no reason not treat them as equals as that is exactly what they will be.

And those cursed to have that blighted magic within them, that said magic is critical to the workings of the majority of thedas but it can be overcome, techological advancement and magical advancement exist side by side in thedas but if the qunari society is any indicator techological advancement can all but replace magic in a society.

I would welcome a crusade against Tevinter to stop the slavery, right after mages get their freedom. But if Thedas really feels like mages should be locked up in circles.. well in that case I will WELCOME Tevinter and wish them luck in inslaving the rest of Thedas. Tevinter and Templars deserve one another, and frankly I think that flashy spells are cool. 

You heard it here first. A slave state is better then a state that make sure people with magic powers learn how to control them, not to turn into monsters and not to misuse them.

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

Make laws  to prevent people from harming one another and enforce them. The thing humans have been doing for ages.

Not like those laws harm people that don't agree with them. Right? 

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Make laws  to prevent people from harming one another and enforce them. The thing humans have been doing for ages.

Not like those laws harm people that don't agree with them. Right? 

This off topic conversation is really dragging on now; Perhaps it should end.

[KainD]

Master Warder Z wrote...

You have a gross simplification of the issue in my eye.

Why make it complicated? You are either a carring person or an as$. I personally don't care to which degree the as$holness goes. 

[KainD]

Master Warder Z wrote...

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Make laws  to prevent people from harming one another and enforce them. The thing humans have been doing for ages.

Not like those laws harm people that don't agree with them. Right? 

This off topic conversation is really dragging on now; Perhaps it should end.

Not like circle and Templars are the law in Thedas right? Not really off topic. 

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

You heard it here first. A slave state is better then a state that make sure people with magic powers learn how to control them, not to turn into monsters and not to misuse them.

It's REALLY not better, it's equal. And as I said I just like shinny spells, so there we go, a little something for me to choose a side. 

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Make laws  to prevent people from harming one another and enforce them. The thing humans have been doing for ages.

Not like those laws harm people that don't agree with them. Right? 

This off topic conversation is really dragging on now; Perhaps it should end.

Not like circle and Templars are the law in Thedas right? Not really off topic. 

It's off topic in regard that is continuely prompted by an out of universe character and the majority of discussion was about said character.